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I didn't say Johnson was a good president. I said Lincoln gets credit for some of his FEW successes.
That's not really true, everyone knows America's involvement in Vietnam happened under JFK. Johnson gets the blame for escalating the obviously broken conflict. Nixon gets blamed for being the hateful monster who started killing brown skinned people in Cambodia.
The problem with Vietnam isn't so much that we decided to get in, it's that later, we decided not to get out.
I didn't say Johnson was a good president. I said Lincoln gets credit for some of his FEW successes.
and the "you don't know " comment came when I thought he had Lincoln 87 > marks ahead of WASHINGTON! I subsequently retracted.
Yeah, FDR was 3rd. Amazing.
Lincoln, LBJ, JFK and FDR are grossly over-rated. Wilson is just laughable, he should be amongst the bottom-5.
Wilson is GWB's hero.
LOL except for Lincoln (who you could argue would have been one), what do all these guys have in common? Hilarious.
The best president ever was James Madison.
"Notwithstanding a thousand faults and blunders,
[Madison's] administration has acquired more glory, and established more union,
than all his three Predecessors, Washington, Adams, and Jefferson, put together."
John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, 1817
http://www.preservationnation.org/tr...ontpelier.html
James Madison, against the greatest odds, won a major war, with low casualties, while at the same time, preserving the Cons ution. The 2nd War of Independence, also known as the War of 1812, freed us from the yoke of British tyranny on the high seas and opened up our economy to the greatest economic expansion in world history.
Madison, at the conclusion of his second term was the most popular president in U.S. history, and his protege James Monroe went on to serve two terms as well, winning by overwhelming margins.
Ever other president of a major war has committed atrocious deceptions and violations of the Cons ution. Madison committed none. And every other president faced a weaker opponent, rather than a stronger opponenet like Madison did.
This includes:
Lincoln - suspended habeas corpus, arrested congressman, tried to arrest the chief justice of the Supreme Court, allowed major war crimes, allowed mass murders of the Indians, was a stone-cold racist, arrested publishers of newspapers, etc. Orchestrated the Ft. Sumpter incident and botched the 1st battle of Bull Run, as well as the first 2 1/2 years of the civil war.
FDR - warmonger who "interned" the Japanese and lied about Pearl Harbor, lied about Huey Long, saying he botched the beginning of WWII (for us) is being nice.
LBJ - lied about the death of JFK, the gulf of Tonkin incident, the U.S.S. Liberty, and never got a declaration of war, and botched the Vietnam war.
Truman - never got a declaration of war, lied about nuking Japan, botched the beginning of the Korean war.
Wilson - Violated the Monroe Doctrine, arrested newspaper publishers, lied about the Lusitannia and the Mexico/German connection, started the income tax, the war on drugs, the direct election of Senators (even worse than the income tax), the alcohol prohibition, and the secret Federal Reserve System.
McKinley - lied about the sinking of the Maine.
Polk - lied about the cause of the Mexican War.
In 1865, Paul Jennings, a slave owned by James Madison said that James Madison was the best man who ever lived.
A Colored Man's Reminiscences
of James Madison:
Electronic Edition.
Jennings, Paul, b. 1799
http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/jennings/jennings.html
Last edited by Galileo; 02-17-2009 at 03:15 PM.
doobs? Is that you?
Uhhh I'd agree with on Lincoln, JFK, FDR. Wilson though? Are you kidding me. This man should be NBR 1. Allow me to enlighten you since you seem to know nothing.
1.Foundation layer of the FTC..For those that don't know the FTC is the federal trade commision. It's whole purpose is to protect us the consumer.
2.The Federal Farm and Loan Act.. Once again this was created for small buisness and land owners to take out a loan to compete in area's against the early formations of Corp America. Without this act and Wilson pushing for it you could kiss small companies goodbye.
3. Federal Reserve. Another one of Wilson's big acts was to put into place what would become the Federal Reserve banks.
4.Came up with the first *succesful* draft for WWI. It's important to note he was dead set against the war to start but after several sub's attacking us ships he realized we could not be nuetral.
5.Helped with laying the groundwork for the first drug prohibition. He tried to get the ban to include cocaine *which him and his cabinet strived to take out of hands of companies and certain high ranking individuals* However the bill could not be passed unless cocaine was left out.
6.Took part in the moving and shakings of the women's sufferage movement for the right for women to vote. As well as the democratic election of U.S Senate.
These aren't even his biggest achievements yet.
7.One of his greatist achievements was the creation of the League of Nations. He urged the US to be a big part of it to help nuture and grow with it. He won the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts.
8.With the help of an orginzation called the Fraternal Order of Eagles helped create and form Mothers Day.
9.The treaty of Versailles and his hand in that treaty along with his idea for our Foreign Policy while scoffed and laughed at the time. Has been the standard since WWII .
The big knock you could have on Wilson is the fact he was a big racist. He pushed for segregation in goverment jobs and his cabinet fired alot of Black Americans for the simple reason they were black and did not want problems between White and Black Workers. However with that said it's not like he was going against the grain of the country at this point. His shortsight on Black Americans and really on any person living in american and not white should not be considered a blemish on his presidency unless your going to hold Washington Jefferson and any other slave owning president to that standard as well.
The fact is I'm a republican however I acknowledge that maybe the president who did more for this country in alot of ways was in fact this democrat who got his start in Jersey. Wilson is also the ONLY president to have a PHD when taking office. I'm at a loss when looking at the groundwork he laid to aid in small buisness and help women get the right to vote how people would say he's not one of the best presidents we ever had? Who could you put above him other than a select few?
Your use of semicolons to set off parallel clauses and the point you made about Iraq strikingly resemble another poster here. Sorry if mistaken.
OK. I didn't realize it was peculiar to use semicolons and to link George Bush's legacy with Iraq! No need to apologize.
Actually, I usually don't like using semicolons. As Kurt Vonnegut once said, "They are transves e hermaphrodites, standing for absolutely nothing."
They all had strong (and successful) tendencies to concentrate political power (in their hands) with little regard for individual liberties and were war-mongers. Kennedy wasn't as bad, but it was just a clumsy administration which took plenty of bad decisions in a very short period of time, he has no business on being rated so high. It has nothing to do with party affiliation, if that's your problem: I should have included Theodore Roosevelt as another overrated POTUS. Clinton, for example, was solid for his times, not much worse than Reagan (if worse at all), certainly better than Ford or W.
You are being sarcastic, right?
Last edited by mogrovejo; 02-17-2009 at 06:56 PM.
No way, dude; semicolons rule for expressing two related sentences that should have a long pause in between them that would exist had they been spoken.
the fact that US Grant is in the 20s now makes this poll stupid.
I need to find out who these historians are and tell them to go back and re-read. Damn they make one of my professions look bad.
I dont have any problem with Abe being 1 over George. I find myself swaying at times with them two. Though its incredibly close.
I also dont get the JFK love in this most recent poll. It makes little to no sense. And I guess doing basically nothing in 8 years now puts you in 8th place. Are the other ones THAT bad?
Polk should be top 10 and bordering on top 5.
Just a couple of random thoughts.
JFK was President during the Cuban Missile Crisis right? Now I know averting nuclear war and global destruction isn't so important but I think he should get some points for it. Being "ranked" 6th? I dunno about that but a bunch of people here are underrating his role in staving off nuclear holocaust.
How about basically causing it in the first place? They would never have tried that with Eisenhower. They thought he was weak and they were right. He gave up our nukes that were ALREADY in Turkey in order to stop nukes POTENTIALLY going in.
He capitulated to what they really wanted, talked big like he avoided war and got ranked #6.
Kennedy: 1
Moronic C-Span Historians: 0
Not even revisionist history. HYPOTHETICAL History - the best kind!
Really? So they kept missiles in Cuba?They thought he was weak and they were right.
*sigh* I see someone who doesn't know what actually happened is chiming in.He gave up our nukes that were ALREADY in Turkey in order to stop nukes POTENTIALLY going in.
Which made it so we didn't get a couple hundred nukes launched at usHe capitulated to what they really wanted
he didtalked big like he avoided war
maybe a bit too high but I can tell you have no idea what you're talking about.and got ranked #6.
Sec24Row7: -1Kennedy: 1
Moronic C-Span Historians: 0
Yeah you are right... I knew the missiles were already there... my bad... I was associating "potentially" with the Soviet fleet coming in to break the "blockade" or "quarantine"... and because they weren't actually finished installing the launch sites?!?
Johnson gets the blame for escalating it because he wasn't handsome and good with a sound bite. Nixon gets blamed for being a hateful monster because there was finally a Republican to blame it on. Although both of them deserve a lot of blame for fighting the war the same way Kennedy did with no intent to win.
So that's where the world's brown-skinned people had been hiding out. Props to Nixon for finding the third world cesspool that all the brown people had congregated to and erasing them once and for all.
I guess Regan was "tha" man even more.
You do realize that the night of the finals 2005 game where Horry hit his shot at The Palace, they aired a show on Fox called "The Greatest American" judged by a 3 person panel (Ann Coulter was one) and they voted W like the 3rd greatest American in the history of our country.....you do realize this....right?
George Bush ranked well, in my foreigner opinion he was the worst thing that produced States.
It is not too soon to render judgement on Bush.
His presidency was a monumental up in nearly every measurable category. The Iraq War is the only thing that we may look back on differently. But that does not negate the other numerous disasters he made in office.
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