Update... RJ talks Stalled, Vince deal dead...

[MarHill]

Can I have some of what your smoking?

The Celtics bench was James Posey, the corpses of Sam Cassell and PJ Brown, and Leon Powe. Wow, thats an amazing bench. Truly.

How the does the trade gut our bench? Mason is a starter (replaced with Carter), Bowen would be back. So what, we lose Hill and maybe Oberto?

....George Hill, whose averaging what, 12-15 minutes a game since Tony came back and like 5 points? That's the answer to our bench woes? Oberto is just a corpse right now as well. These guys are the answer to our bench?

Not to mention, come playoffs, not a chance in Hill sees the final 6 minutes of the game. Carter on the other hand.....

Post trade we have a solid 8.

Parker
Carter
Manu
Duncan
Bonner
Finely
Bowen
Kurt

That's a pretty damn good 8 man playoff rotation. Let's not forget, Carter can also play in the second unit with Manu and those two alone can carry the entire scoring load. All's vaughn has to do is dribble the damn ball up.

On top of all that, what role player wouldn't want to come sign with us next season to have a shot to play with 4 allstars?


Including them for Carter, assuming we get Bruce back, really is a no brainer.

For the Celts...that bench was good for that team and to dismiss their contributions means you were not looking at their games closely.

Cassell brought some stability to PG position behind Rondo and Posey could guard 2, 3, and 4 and hit three pointers and P.J. Brown gave them extra length in the 2nd unit and had a veteran presence with playoff experience.

While not......big names they fit what Celts needed last season and even with their great record so far they have acknowledge to missing Posey and Brown.

Also Powe was very effective against the Lakers in the finals.

Now...by the fact that Hill has played earlier in the season and has earned Pop's trust he will get minutes in the playoffs and Mason is a solid shooter and will help space the floor.

Yes, VC is talented and would be a nice addition. But to lose their backcourt depth and eat his huge contract would be bad for the team.

You have no back-up PG in your scenario and yes Manu could play PG...but it's very different than someone who has played the position regularly than someone who is filling in a few minutes a game out of necessity.

The right role players are key for a championship contender and the Spurs have filled a void that was missing and they are not easy to find.

[Shastafarian]

Just like Ray Ray and KG weren't...

So you wanna gamble then

[Holt's Cat]

Spurs didn't lose a shot at #5 because they didn't have a backup point who could shoot. They lost because they had a swingman who couldn't put up the points.

[SScarrJ]

I see my point went over your head.

The point being that MaverickRippers team has a shot at winning a 7 game series vs anyone in the NBA. The point that MaverickRippers team could add 1 or 2 cheap Veterans in the off season and be a legit le contender? What point were you trying to make when you threw together a fantasy team of 7 footers?

[SenorSpur]

Can I have some of what your smoking?

The Celtics bench was James Posey, the corpses of Sam Cassell and PJ Brown, and Leon Powe. Wow, thats an amazing bench. Truly.

How the does the trade gut our bench? Mason is a starter (replaced with Carter), Bowen would be back. So what, we lose Hill and maybe Oberto?

....George Hill, whose averaging what, 12-15 minutes a game since Tony came back and like 5 points? That's the answer to our bench woes? Oberto is just a corpse right now as well. These guys are the answer to our bench?

Not to mention, come playoffs, not a chance in Hill sees the final 6 minutes of the game. Carter on the other hand.....

Post trade we have a solid 8.

Parker
Carter
Manu
Duncan
Bonner
Finely
Bowen
Kurt

That's a pretty damn good 8 man playoff rotation. Let's not forget, Carter can also play in the second unit with Manu and those two alone can carry the entire scoring load. All's vaughn has to do is dribble the damn ball up.

On top of all that, what role player wouldn't want to come sign with us next season to have a shot to play with 4 allstars?


Including them for Carter, assuming we get Bruce back, really is a no brainer.

Look I admit Carter is a borderline great player and would be a significant upgrade. But where is all this money coming from? If the Spurs make a trade where they're paying double-digit millions of dollars to four players, you're not going to have much left but minimum salaried players.

If you believe you're going to be able to count on Vaughn and Finley as key playoff contributors, then you're the one smoking, my friend.

[Holt's Cat]

So you wanna gamble then

You want to gamble on a rookie backup point and an Argentine ankle that failed last year.

[Shastafarian]

Spurs didn't lose a shot at #5 because they didn't have a backup point who could shoot. They lost because they had a swingman who couldn't put up the points.

You mean like Mason? I'm gonna create a new group called "I Don't Mind Having Jacque Vaughn as My Backup Point Guard". You guys should join.

[MarHill]

PJ Brown played in 18 games last year averaging 2PPG, holy how are they managing to live without that production. BTW in the playoffs he upped his avg to 3 PPG so yeah they really need to replace that. Perkins, Powe and Davis are compared to PJ Brown.

And yeah they dont win game 7 against the Cavs last year EC Semifinals without his contribution!

It's funny how the team have publicly acknowledge what his role meant to the team and they wanted him back and some people want to dismiss that!!

Amazing!!!!

[Holt's Cat]

If you believe you're going to be able to count on Vaughn and Finley as key playoff contributors, then you're the one smoking, my friend.

Yet somehow Mason and Hill are these key playoff contributors.

[mudyez]

Have we decided completely against David Lee of the Knicks? The President and staff have decided they want to get rid of him and Nate so they can go after Lebron next year. Probably get him for next to nothing.

source?...all I ever heard, is that they want to keep him or get jeffries contract of the boos with him

I dont see us taking a contract like jeffries and we dont have pieces to sweeten it otherwise....I'd do a trade for lee in a heartbeat...but I dont see him going for nothing

[Holt's Cat]

You mean like Mason? I'm gonna create a new group called "I Don't Mind Having Jacque Vaughn as My Backup Point Guard". You guys should join.

Mason = Barry = a few nice moments, capped with a 5 game exit.

[Shastafarian]

You want to gamble on a rookie backup point and an Argentine ankle that failed last year.

More than a 32 year old, recent adolescent, who will be making $33 million over the next two years? Yeah. If manu is out even carter won't be able to help. So I don't see much use in trading away Hill and/or Mason.

[K-State Spur]

Mason + Hill + Horry? Sold. If Ginobili's ankle injury is legit can they really count on him for the next 3 seasons? I'm not sure how Carter is so old at age 32 while Ginobili, only six months younger, has so much more time left on his body. Lest we forget that ankle...

If Manu's out, we're not winning the championship even with VC. Don't trade away two of the best young finds we've had years (and I realize that Mason isn't that young - but he should be productive through the rest of the Duncan era) in a panic move.

If there's a trade that makes sense - you do it. But you do it completely independently of whether or not Manu is hurt. In fact, Manu's injury should make the team even more hesitant to give away any of the productive young players for a big name.

[MarHill]

You mean like Mason? I'm gonna create a new group called "I Don't Mind Having Jacque Vaughn as My Backup Point Guard". You guys should join.

They will be the first ones going nuts on this forum about Vaughn!

[Spur|n|Austin]

The point being that MaverickRippers team has a shot at winning a 7 game series vs anyone in the NBA. The point that MaverickRippers team could add 1 or 2 cheap Veterans in the off season and be a legit le contender? What point were you trying to make when you threw together a fantasy team of 7 footers?

I also have no idea what point you were trying to make with that big man team of yours, other than that you were saying we need a big?

[Shastafarian]

Mason = Barry

Thanks I needed a good laugh

= a few nice moments, capped with a 5 game exit.

I get that you wanna gamble. But I'd rather stick with a group that has chemistry and has shown they can win.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Thorn and the nets are just being too greedy..... them, dont help them clear salary......hope they dont sign lebron also in 2010, so they can continue to suck along with VC contract.....

[Holt's Cat]

If Manu's out, we're not winning the championship even with VC. Don't trade away two of the best young finds we've had years (and I realize that Mason isn't that young - but he should be productive through the rest of the Duncan era) in a panic move.

If there's a trade that makes sense - you do it. But you do it completely independently of whether or not Manu is hurt. In fact, Manu's injury should make the team even more hesitant to give away any of the productive young players for a big name.

I'm glad we're going to be pissing away the rest of Duncan's prime waiting for tomorrow. How about Manu isn't out for the rest of the season? Stack the rotation and win now.

[MaverickRipper]

For the Celts...that bench was good for that team and to dismiss their contributions means you were not looking at their games closely.

Cassell brought some stability to PG position behind Rondo and Posey could guard 2, 3, and 4 and hit three pointers and P.J. Brown gave them extra length in the 2nd unit and had a veteran presence with playoff experience.

While not......big names they fit what Celts needed last season and even with their great record so far they have acknowledge to missing Posey and Brown.

Also Powe was very effective against the Lakers in the finals.

Now...by the fact that Hill has played earlier in the season and has earned Pop's trust he will get minutes in the playoffs and Mason is a solid shooter and will help space the floor.

Yes, VC is talented and would be a nice addition. But to lose their backcourt depth and eat his huge contract would be bad for the team.

You have no back-up PG in your scenario and yes Manu could play PG...but it's very different than someone who has played the position regularly than someone who is filling in a few minutes a game out of necessity.

The right role players are key for a championship contender and the Spurs have filled a void that was missing and they are not easy to find.

Posey was key, but I'll be damned if the Celtics wouldn't of traded any 2 of those other guys for an allstar.

We don't lose much depth at all. Vince replaces Mason, but can do a lot more.

We lose a back up point who plays 12-15 minutes and won't play in the big minutes of a game anyway.

All Vaughn has to do is dribble the ball up because we can keep one Vince/Parker/Tim in the second unit with Manu, taking the scoring load off Manu.

But Hill's averaging like 5 points anyway, so not like he's helping in that department anyway. Not to mention, Carter has a great post up game, which helps role players a lot.

So again it comes down to back up point who will play 18-20 minutes (tops) in the post season and a great role player or an Allstar

Not to mention, post-trade we still have a solid 8 man rotation.

[MaNu4Tres]

I forgot Carter was a proven playoff performer. I seem to remember something about a graduation ceremony...

Carter has never had a team around him worth a .

You guys seem to forget Tony has 3 more years on his contract( meaning Hill will never start or play significant minutes during Tim's last stand of 4 years)...Getting rid of Hill shouldn't be something to stress on about considering he will never play in big games. Tim has 4 years left to win. You try to maximize those 4 years at all possible. Keeping someone who will play 12-15 minutes a game AT MOST come APRIL and May is stupid if you have the chance at acquiring a bonified star who can score in all ways ( unlike mason), and shoot the 3 at 40 percent as well. Vaughn may be our back up point and bring the ball up 10 minutes a game during the regular season but in the playoffs that will simply not be the case as Pop used Manu last year at back up point in the playoffs...


So in theory MaverickRipper knows what hes talking about. All you other fans who are against getting rid of hill and mason are just blind.

[MarHill]

If Manu's out, we're not winning the championship even with VC. Don't trade away two of the best young finds we've had years (and I realize that Mason isn't that young - but he should be productive through the rest of the Duncan era) in a panic move.

If there's a trade that makes sense - you do it. But you do it completely independently of whether or not Manu is hurt. In fact, Manu's injury should make the team even more hesitant to give away any of the productive young players for a big name.

Thank you!!

[Holt's Cat]

Thanks I needed a good laugh

My bad. Brent's no longer a Spur so he sucks, but whatever marginal talent sporting the Silver & Black is magically 10x the player he'd be on any other team.

I get that you wanna gamble. But I'd rather stick with a group that has chemistry and has shown they can win.

It's not about gambling. It's about doing what it takes to win now instead of pissing away your opportunity to win more les for 'tomorrow'.

[Shastafarian]

Carter has never had a team around him worth a .

You guys seem to forget Tony has 3 more years on his contract( meaning Hill will never start or play significant minutes during Tim's last stand of 4 years)...Getting rid of Hill shouldn't be something to stress on about considering he will never play in big games. Tim has 4 years left to win. You try to maximize those 4 years at all possible. Keeping someone who will play 12-15 minutes a game AT MOST come APRIL and May is stupid if you have the chance at acquiring a bonified star who can score in all ways ( unlike mason), and shoot the 3 at 40 percent as well. Vaughn may be our back up point and bring the ball up 10 minutes a game during the regular season but in the playoffs that will simply not be the case as Pop used Manu last year at back up point in the playoffs...


So in theory MaverickRipper knows what hes talking about. All you other players who are against getting rid of hill and mason are just blind.

I guess we don't even need a second unit then right? Hill can play point or the 2 in some cases. He's a good smaller defender. But no. Let's trade him because he's not a starter.

[SenorSpur]

If Manu's out, we're not winning the championship even with VC. Don't trade away two of the best young finds we've had years (and I realize that Mason isn't that young - but he should be productive through the rest of the Duncan era) in a panic move.

If there's a trade that makes sense - you do it. But you do it completely independently of whether or not Manu is hurt. In fact, Manu's injury should make the team even more hesitant to give away any of the productive young players for a big name.

there it is right there. Nuff said.

I still don't believe VC is the target. This is just a typical CIA Pop smokescreen.

[MarHill]

Posey was key, but I'll be damned if the Celtics wouldn't of traded any 2 of those other guys for an allstar.

We don't lose much depth at all. Vince replaces Mason, but can do a lot more.

We lose a back up point who plays 12-15 minutes and won't play in the big minutes of a game anyway.

All Vaughn has to do is dribble the ball up because we can keep one Vince/Parker/Tim in the second unit with Manu, taking the scoring load off Manu.

But Hill's averaging like 5 points anyway, so not like he's helping in that department anyway. Not to mention, Carter has a great post up game, which helps role players a lot.

So again it comes down to back up point who will play 18-20 minutes (tops) in the post season and a great role player or an Allstar

Not to mention, post-trade we still have a solid 8 man rotation.

Again, but they didnt and the Celts said publicly what those role players to the team last season. It's seem people want to dismiss that fact.

Teams find role players to fit their team and when you do they become valuable to that team..especially if you are championship contender like the Spurs.