Put your money where your mouth is

[Supergirl]

What do you really think? Honestly, but preferably with some facts to support your opinion.

[Winehole23]

Did you mean the stimulus package, SG? I don't think you meant the TARP, and bank bailout 2.0 hasn't been rolled out yet.

I voted other.

It all depends on how fast the water's draining from the bathtub right now and how quickly we turn off the spigot when the plug's back in place. There's no way to calculate this. We just have to hope our benevolent technocrats guess right.

IMO the stimulus is more palliative than theraputic as currently constructed. In December the Fed forecast 7.6% unemployment for 2009. Now Bernanke says it will reach 8.8%. More upward revisions wouldn't be so surprising.

The magnitude of human suffering will justify the stimulus. It will be clearer later this year than it is right now. Obama's hint that this stimulus isn't the last should probably be taken as a promise.

Will it work as advertised? I doubt there's the political will for the amount of spending deflation hawks like Reich and Krugman claim is necessary, so no.

It will make our bottom line worse. It may wreck the USD.

But oddly enough, if the stimulus doesn't work that might be a good thing. If it does work as advertised, the danger of hyperinflation and USD collapse is magnified; much less so if it doesn't.

IMO the stimulus pales in importance next to how we deal with our insolvent banking sector, but that's for another thread.

[101A]

Over 200 pages of the "Stimulus" package sets into motion centralizing and putting under govt. scrutiny ALL American's medical records and treatments. It provides incentives for green energy projects, increases unemployment benefits and food stamp allocations. There's more, but that's just off the top of my head.

This "stimulus" package is more of a liberal grab bag than anything else. Wouldn't want to waste a good crisis, after all.

[Blake]

I'm guessing you meant stimulus package too.....

I think the government had to do something, but I think the stimulus package is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound.

[101A]

Oh, and if this was all caused by Bush's policies, why don't we just reverse those and be done with it.

Since the massive tax cuts for the rich, along with the invasion of Iraq were his great crimes, why don't we just raise the richer's taxes back to Clintonian levels, pull out of Iraq - that should fix everything, right?

[doobs]

Not necessary. Desirable to have some sort of stimulus, maybe, to mitigate some short-term pain. (I think the dire warnings of financial and economic collapse are fear-mongering.) Most of this stimulus is basically a budget, with too much spending on liberal pet projects.

I'm no economist, so what I'm saying obviously isn't gospel truth. But I believe that this stimulus is, for the most part, bad economics. It's bad for the debt and forces to government to borrow even more, thereby crowding out private investment in the long-term. It also threatens to bring us higher inflation. In a bad economy, that could lead us into stagflation. And then we're back to 1981-1982. Not pretty.

Moreover, it contains pernicious "Buy American" clauses--which have been watered down, but still send the wrong message to trading partners. We simply can't afford to risk closure of markets to our consumers and our exporters.

But, yes, the economy will recover, as always. This stimulus will hamper and slow the recovery, but the economy will recover. It always does. The real question is whether things improve appreciably before the 2010 mid-term election.

[Winehole23]

Oh, and if this was all caused by Bush's policies, why don't we just reverse those and be done with it.

Since the massive tax cuts for the rich, along with the invasion of Iraq were his great crimes, why don't we just raise the richer's taxes back to Clintonian levels, pull out of Iraq - that should fix everything, right?

More unfunny. You're the only one making this case.

Are you trying to start a partisan food fight? Why? There's plenty of blame to go around and besides, the seriousness of the problem renders the matter of blame academic.

Focusing on blame is infantile and unresolvable. Why not drop it and rejoin the adults in a real conversation about this, 101A?
.

[LockBeard]

I like how the libs always bash the GOP, then when they know their side is ing things up they drop "There's plenty of blame to go around" yet they never directly go after those in their party and pretty much leave it at that.

Face it, the left used this "catastrophic crisis" to push liberal agenda, fund pet projects, help with re-elections in 2010, pay back friends in the business, all while knowingly stealing $1 trillion dollars of American's money. The health of the dollar? LOL who gives a about that.

The GOP ed things up the last 8 years, but the left has already proven they are going to do their thing regardless of reason.

Go ahead and turn America into California, Illinois, and every other successful accomplishment the same ol' politics has blessed this great country with.

[Winehole23]

I like how the libs always bash the GOP, then when they know their side is ing things up they drop "There's plenty of blame to go around" yet they never directly go after those in their party.

You don't know about me, LockBeard.

The search function is your friend. Use it, before you jump to conclusions.

Did you see my Bruce Fein post yesterday? He and his article both should give you a pretty good idea where I'm coming from politically.

[clambake]

bump this thread in july.

unemployment will look like chernobyl.

[balli]

IMO a dollar spent is a dollar spent and the Democrats should have taken out all the tax concessions they made for republicans, before it became apparent that they [conservatives] were going to try to obstruct this thing no matter what.

[Winehole23]

IMO a dollar spent is a dollar spent and the Democrats should have taken out all the tax concessions they made for republicans, before it became apparent that they [conservatives] were going to try to obstruct this thing no matter what.

They needed Spector, Snowe and Collins to prevent a filibuster, so withdrawing concessions wasn't really an option.

[101A]

More unfunny. You're the only one making this case.

Are you trying to start a partisan food fight? Why? There's plenty of blame to go around and besides, the seriousness of the problem renders the matter of blame academic.

Focusing on blame is infantile and unresolvable. Why not drop it and rejoin the adults in a real conversation about this, 101A?
.

Self-Righteous, pompous a little?

First, I'm older than you.

Second, do you not find it the least bit ironic that this is never discussed?

Bush was blamed for EVERYTHING not 90 days ago - that "his" policies, and those of the Republicans got us into this mess.

It is why we NOW have a Congress and White House completely dominated by Democrats - able to do whatever the they like, including passing a stimulus bill that will probably provide little stimulus, but will have long-standing ramifications that we, our children and grandchildren will have to live with pretty much forever!!

And WHY do they get to have a free pass to bend us over so hard? Because conventional wisdom has declared this to be "Bush's Fault".

[balli]

First, I'm older than you.

What the is wrong with you? No wonder you can't talk about this on anything other than a 4th grade level.

[101A]

IMO a dollar spent is a dollar spent

No, it isn't.

A dollar EARNED is a dollar earned.

A dollar's worth of value produced is a dollar's worth of dollar produced.

EVERYTHING else is just paper.

[101A]

What the is wrong with you? No wonder you can't talk about this on anything other than a 4th grade level.

He said "join the adults"

I responded.

[balli]

No, it isn't.

A dollar EARNED is a dollar earned.

A dollar's worth of value produced is a dollar's worth of dollar produced.

EVERYTHING else is just paper.

Take your crude, idealistic and naive economic ramblings elsewhere. This is the situation we got.

[fyatuk]

Government spending helps, but the stimulus doesn't look like it contains enough of the right kind of spending, and too much of other kinds. Also, the deficit its going to rack up is going to stagnate the natural recovery that would be happening anyway.

Much of it is partisan BS anyway, aimed at helping the east and left coast and ignoring the heartland. Then again, the heartland isn't getting hit near as hard...

[101A]

Take your crude, idealistic and naive economic ramblings elsewhere. This is the situation we got.

You are a little cliche, aren't you?

It's almost like Ayn Rand crapped you out her ass.

Don't want to respond, so you mock. Don't like the insinuation, so you insult.

Naive?

"A dollar spent is a dollar spent" is about the most naive thing I've read all day long.

[coyotes_geek]

I cast a vote for "other". "Other" meaning something is neccessary, but something other than what we did. What we did isn't going to help.

[101A]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1039849853

[LockBeard]

Alienating the few left in this country that played by the rules and lived by personal responsibility passed down to them from those who have lived in tougher times.

Good news: Because of the preparedness, they will be able to outrun their buddy and not worry about the bear.
Bad news: They have no voice in this country.

Awesome times are ahead.

[Winehole23]

First, I'm older than you.

So what? I should put up with your inane grousing b/c you're my elder? Really? Do you defer to your elders around here?

Second, do you not find it the least bit ironic that this is never discussed?

Are you kidding? The stimulus has been a huge topic, and the blame game is the number one all-time pastime in this forum. I call bs.

Bush was blamed for EVERYTHING not 90 days ago - that "his" policies, and those of the Republicans got us into this mess.

Ok blame it all on Obama. See if I care.

And WHY do they get to have a free pass to bend us over so hard? Because conventional wisdom has declared this to be "Bush's Fault".

I would put it a little differently. The borrow and spend GOP first lost integrity with the electorate, then they lost their shorts at the polls. Who do you blame for that?

No free passes on the stimulus. Whether the obloquy falls to the Dems or the GOP remains to be seen. It all depends on how the results are perceived.

[101A]

So what? I should put up with your inane grousing b/c you're my elder? Really? Do you defer to your elders around here?

I thought you told me to defer to "the adults"?

Are you kidding? The stimulus has been a huge topic, and the blame game is the number one all-time pastime in this forum. I call bs.

Pronoun non-agreement. "This" being the blame for the economic mess resting squarely on Republcans - and the ensuing windfall it has provided for Democrats (and NOT referring strictly to this forum.

Ok blame it all on Obama. See if I care.

I blame everyone - lenders, borrowers, the fed, govt., etc.....

I would put it a little differently. The borrow and spend GOP first lost integrity with the electorate, then they lost their shorts at the polls. Who do you blame for that?

No free passes on the stimulus. Whether the obloquy falls to the Dems or the GOP remains to be seen. It all depends on how the results are perceived.

I disagree. I think there is a chance Obama gets a free pass, ala FDR.

[LockBeard]

All this "crisis" is to them is an opportunity to re-structure American society into their image.

So if "will it work" means will things go back to the way they were, the answer is not likely. Why? Because that's the goal.