some GOP governeners don't want stimulus

[ChumpDumper]

I said no such thing. There's no requirement to eliminate the welfare to work program, but offering bonusus to the state governments based upon the size of their welfare roles might as well be. Again, you're welcome to throw meat in front of hungry tigers and be surprised when they eat it, but forgive me for not being so foolish.

So you are now saying they don't have to.

Or simply making sure they don't cost their state money down the road. Oh, I forgot, you think the congress is just handing out all this money to the states with no strings attached. Wake up and smell the power-grab.

Texas is going to spend the money. Wake up and smell reality.

[Obstructed_View]

Wake up and smell reality.

That's classic.

[Wild Cobra]

Eh, a lot of economists predict a recovery sometime next year. I guess Republicans can hope it won't happen.

Knock - knock -

Anyone home?

It's not that conservatives and republicans are hoping it won't happen, it's that they know it won't happen with what the democrats are doing. We would be in recovery mode next year if the democrats would keep their hands out of what makes capitalism work. As it stands, with democrats creating more social spending, this will be a long rough ride.

[ChumpDumper]

Knock - knock -

Anyone home?

It's not that conservatives and republicans are hoping it won't happen, it's that they know it won't happen with what the democrats are doing. We would be in recovery mode next year if the democrats would keep their hands out of what makes capitalism work. As it stands, with democrats creating more social spending, this will be a long rough ride.

Knock - knock -

Anyone home?

Had conservatives actually known anything about the economy, they could have avoided this recession in the first place.

Keep your fingers crossed that things get worse, WC. It's all you have now.

[Wild Cobra]

Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

have you noticed how in general, the liberal controlled states are worse off then the conservative run states?

Before this...debacle/catastrophy, this couldnt be further from the truth.

Post-debacle/catastrophy, every state is in the red. Its just some are waaaaaay more than others.

Excuse me, did I say red vs. blue or republican vs. democrat?

No.

I said conservative vs. liberal.

[Wild Cobra]

Had conservatives actually known anything about the economy, they could have avoided this recession in the first place.

How many conservatives are in congress? Maybe one democrat, and at least half the republicans are RINOs.

Please. Stop mixing conservative with republican.

[ChumpDumper]

How many conservatives are in congress? Maybe one democrat, and at least half the republicans are RINOs.

Please. Stop mixing conservative with republican.

Please, stop pretending you are a conservative.

[TDMVPDPOY]

dont think GOP can even fix the mess they made if they were still in govt...

fkn tools

[micca]

I'ts ominous that not even rank and file democrats approve of this porkilous bill, they're very nervous as well, oh the obamanations lap it up but not the rest of America. This is not real legislation, when a bill is voted on with out even being read, it's not serious legislation when an administration cobbles something together and then doesn't allow time for the represenatives of the people to read and discuss the bill.
This is a power grab by the ruling class to consolidate power into fewer and fewer hands.I can only imagine the real motives of the republicans for not voting for this bill,but just it's lack of TRANSPANCY is enough, and the entire democratic party are going to have this laid at thier feet when the chickens come home to roost, someone in the democratic party could have made a gesture at least at responsible goverment, to save the party some face but no.
When Putin, a man born and raised in the cradle of Socialist theroy stands up and warns the U.S. of the stupidity of socialisim it's time to use your ing brain.

[ChumpDumper]

Why would anyone listen to Putin about anything except how to assassinate reporters in a way that makes it look like they have been assassinated?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Why would anyone listen to Putin about anything except how to assassinate reporters in a way that makes it look like they have been assassinated?

doubt he cares since he has millions or even billions locked up somewhere

[micca]

PFA, or do you have support for this?

In CA you have the worst of both worlds. Closed primaries in CA drag both parties closer to the extremes, and legislative referendums leave the state susceptible to special interests tapping into transient populist moods.

Unwillingness to pare spending is part of the equation, but the Proposition 13 tax revolt, which capped ad valorem taxes at 1% and required supermajorities for all state budget bills and tax measures, has wrecked comity between the parties, kneecapped California's ability to pay for itself, and has artificially raised the price of housing for all Californians.

I make a distinction between California's political leadership and its populace. The state is important culturally, economically and electorally. A lot of Americans live there. Suggesting they do not deserve help because their political leadership has screwed up is screwed up IMO. We're all in the same boat.

California is important to America in so far as what not to do. People outside California still see it as some El Dorado that it is not, They are blinded by it's immense wealth, but that wealth is only shared by a few.California of 30 years ago had the promise of being a great and relevant place, it was making alot of contributions to America, but not so much anymore.Today California is playground, and hunting ground for the greedy.If it was not for immigration and most importantly illegal aliens the population of the state would be going down, because of massive migrations out of the state by the middle class. It is hard to own a home, it's hard to save money, and the quality of life for people is just a political football for evil and corrupt men.California is no longer the golden state it is the gilded state.L.A. is filled with mexican and central american gangs that have turned it into a shooting gallery, blacks are being hunted and driven out of Watts and Compton by them,you may have heard of Jamil Shaw or Jamil's bill, and tons of drug money is being laundred in california by the cartels, and one of the prime bussinesses to laundry money through is southeren californian politicians.
Northeren Ca. real estate has become a roulette wheel, the hippie dippy ecolgoy bull is just that bull , Ca. does this minstral show of progressive ecology crap and yet it builds, and builds, and builds, and does nothing to curb population growth. northeren Ca. sonoma and napa counties were filled with incrediblly diverse farms,but now it's all one giant monoculture of wineries draining the salmon runs dry so rich dilitenes have a country place, and a vanity winery, where there are five star resturants on every corner, and you can enjoy a 400 dollar lunch without have to see the plebes.The State is killing the middle class and the working class, and the democrtic ideal as well , but hey if your rich and indolent it's a great place.

[micca]

Why would anyone listen to Putin about anything except how to assassinate reporters in a way that makes it look like they have been assassinated?

Oh they might listen to him because he is a man whose run a country through a terrible time, He is well versed in power and evil, and he doesn't live in his mother's basement.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Tell GOP to return the money they ransached IRAQs rebuilding fund through the sales of oil.

US$27billion precisely.....and i havnt seen being rebuilt in iraq.....

who needs afghanistan as a new golden triangle for drugs when you got tijuana just south of the border.....

[PixelPusher]

Oh they might listen to him because he is a man whose run a country through a terrible time, He is well versed in power and evil, and he doesn't live in his mother's basement.

That you look up to a former-KGB, current Mob Boss on how to run a democracy does not speak well of you.

[Obstructed_View]

Knock - knock -

Anyone home?

Had conservatives actually known anything about the economy, they could have avoided this recession in the first place.

Keep your fingers crossed that things get worse, WC. It's all you have now.

Had republicans done what they promised to do in 1994, there'd be term limits and none of this would have happened. I'll never forgive them for that.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Knock - knock -

Anyone home?

It's not that conservatives and republicans are hoping it won't happen, it's that they know it won't happen with what the democrats are doing. We would be in recovery mode next year if the democrats would keep their hands out of what makes capitalism work. As it stands, with democrats creating more social spending, this will be a long rough ride.

So what happens when the economy does turn around? Do the people who railed against the stimulus have reason to fear politically? I am not on anyone's campaign but it would be easy to put together ads that use those who opposed the stimulus as not having any business being in office. They were wrong to oppose something that appeared to work. what would your response be?

[Wild Cobra]

Had republicans done what they promised to do in 1994, there'd be term limits and none of this would have happened. I'll never forgive them for that.

No . All the republicans had to do was keep their word on things.

[Wild Cobra]

So what happens when the economy does turn around? Do the people who railed against the stimulus have reason to fear politically? I am not on anyone's campaign but it would be easy to put together ads that use those who opposed the stimulus as not having any business being in office. They were wrong to oppose something that appeared to work. what would your response be?

Then we are wrong, and I'll admit it. Look at the market confidence with these bailouts. Things are getting worse, not better. Same with consumer confidence. I simply don't see it happening. Even if it happens, how much higher will the debt become as a percentage of GNP, GDP, etc? How will this affect the future?

[Obstructed_View]

So what happens when the economy does turn around? Do the people who railed against the stimulus have reason to fear politically? I am not on anyone's campaign but it would be easy to put together ads that use those who opposed the stimulus as not having any business being in office. They were wrong to oppose something that appeared to work. what would your response be?

So as long as the economy recovers eventually, those in favor of stimulus can take credit for its recovery, regardless of whether they spent literally trillions of dollars to prolong recovery by decades? Good logic. That's kind of like saying that if you beat someone half to death with a stick, you deserve a medal for saving their life when they recover simply because you didn't kill them.


Obama's already modified his promise of creating jobs into saving an equal number of jobs that otherwise "would have been lost" if not for his measures, and those that love him blindly because of their political leanings will continue to love him.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Of course Wild Cobra and the republicans are as balijuana says, otherwise balijuana would have a hard time coming to grips that he is a blind fool.

And that would after all be....hard. Can't have that.



Bali and the rest of you losers talk down to conservatives/reps/whatever yet you have NOT ONE SINGLE PROBLEM taking their money. Let that sink in, es.

He specifically references a ratio to dallars take to dollars paid out and the fact that it comes from red states and that is the best you can do? Thats pretty weak bull man.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So as long as the economy recovers eventually, those in favor of stimulus can take credit for its recovery, regardless of whether they spent literally trillions of dollars to prolong recovery by decades? Good logic. That's kind of like saying that if you beat someone half to death with a stick, you deserve a medal for saving their life when they recover simply because you didn't kill them.


Obama's already modified his promise of creating jobs into saving an equal number of jobs that otherwise "would have been lost" if not for his measures, and those that love him blindly because of their political leanings will continue to love him.

If economic growth stabilizes in the next two years then only a partisna head would deny it. If its still the same then it didn't work. Its really not that hard to understand.

[Obstructed_View]

If economic growth stabilizes in the next two years then only a partisna head would deny it. If its still the same then it didn't work. Its really not that hard to understand.

There's no economic growth, and suggesting that taking money from taxpayers and job creators and giving it to state governments with incentives to increase welfare roles is going to stabilize anything is a joke. If the economy recovers it's due solely to American ingenuity. Only a partisna head thinks government is the answer to anything.

[micca]

That you look up to a former-KGB, current Mob Boss on how to run a democracy does not speak well of you.

You miss the point... I'm not looking to him on how to run a democracy I'm looking to him as someone who is intamitley aware of the stupidity of socialisim.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There's no economic growth, and suggesting that taking money from taxpayers and job creators and giving it to state governments with incentives to increase welfare roles is going to stabilize anything is a joke. If the economy recovers it's due solely to American ingenuity. Only a partisna head thinks government is the answer to anything.

Sorry but your all or nothing at ude is pretty stupid. Government is the solution to many things. It is the bane of others. To just make blanket statement like government solves nothing means that you are an anarchist.