Game Blog: Spurs vs. Cavaliers 2/27/09

[peskypesky]

This is the most satisfying loss in quite awhile. I'm smitten.

[ploto]

You can only play the team the opponent puts on the court.

[MarHill]

Not an impressive win when Tim Duncan isn't playing and Manu Ginobili isn't playing.



Giving Cavs way too much credit. If Tim and Manu had played and they won, then that's one thing.

But this, this game shows us nothing about Cavs (or makes us less impressed by them).

Mavs<Spurs,

You were right when you posted earlier that the Cavs would win by double digits. I think you wrote 100-84. Well, 97-86 was the final and the game was won in the 1st quarter when Lebron set the tempo.

The Cavs are too good to beat without the big 3!! The Spurs will get another shot at them in April!

Also, I like the fact that Hill, Vaughn, Hairston, and Mensah-Bonsu played better than the Cavs bench players in the 4th.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Malik should get all of Udoka's minutes for sure. I've wanted this for a while. Pops earned himself a closer look. I like his huthle, and the way how he fouls without giving up and-1's, which oberto is suscptible to.

[peskypesky]

I've seen the score...unfortunately. Guess I will watch the 4th for Pops.

and Malik

[smrattler]

You can only play the team the opponent puts on the court.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong!

[ducks]

You can only play the team the opponent puts on the court.

god you are smart

[Borosai]

That 4th quarter was fun to watch. PMB and Hairston playing aggressively and above the rim (yeah, it was deep benches going at it, but still good). Udoka can't play that badly against those players: deeper bench for him.

[MarHill]

Hairston and Pops looked solid tonight, Im all for starting Pops over Bonner, all Bonner can do is shoot, we can bring him off the bench. Look at Pops stat line!

C'mon now!

Bonner has played well and deserves to be on the court. He has developed a pull-up game and played adequate defense!

[Mavs<Spurs]

Conclusion:

Malik should get ALL of Ime's minutes and some of Michael's. I think Malik has busted his ass when given the opportunity and he is a player that can take it to the rim which is scarce on this team.

I wonder how Bonsu could play with Tim? When Tim gets doubled could he pass it to Bonsu for dunks?

Hairston and Pops looked solid tonight, Im all for starting Pops over Bonner, all Bonner can do is shoot, we can bring him off the bench. Look at Pops stat line





Team's depth is in pretty good shape after all.

I don't feel bad at all about this game.

Actually, there's a lot of good things to take from this game .


Pops and Malik need more minutes.

Go Spurs!!!

[tomtom]

Bonner does have a nasty cross over.

LMAO that was awesome hope someone can make a gif of it

[peskypesky]

We lose. Why do i feel somehow good......

because we may have just seen the cavalry appearing on the horizon.

[MateoNeygro]

I taped the game. Should I watch it?

Just watch the 4th. It was fun to watch.

[Ice009]

Manu hasn't even be an all-star the last several years. The last time he did make it, he was voted in by the coaches. 16 points a game and 4 rebounds and 4 assists a game won't get it done.

I love Manu, but we have to be honest.

Now, I know Manu's game is about so much more than numbers and there are all the intangibles that he brings to the table.

However, being MVP of the Italian league a couple of teams, being member of the Gold Medal Argentian team, being a player off the bench in 2003 of a team that won it all, making by coach's selection the all star team exactly once and being a key member of the 2005 NBA championship team, a supporting member of the 2007 NBA championship team and scoring 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game -- well that's probably not enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

Bruce was a starter for the 2003 and 2005 and 2007 teams that won it all.
Being a starter for a championship team isn't a strong argument for a person being in the Hall of Fame.

Being MVP of a league that is not equal in category to the NBA is also not a conclusive or convincing argument either.

The NBA is where the best basketball is played and that is not really debated. So, what has he done here. He hasn't made the starting team of the West ever for the All-Star team. And he only made it by coaching selection. The other years he didn't even make it at all.

So, in the NBA, he has not done much to show that he himself as an individual deserves to receive the individual recognition that the Hall of Fame provides.

I am a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. He's my second favorite Spur after Timmy.

But, I doubt that you will find many people who would agree that Manu is a lock for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has already done.

And that's not because I don't appreciate him -- he has been invaluable.

And without him, we might not have won several of our les (although Tim is the main reason why we won all 4 les-- even though Tony clearly deserved the 2007 Finals MVP trophy).

That's just my take.

Manu should have made the All star team last season. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting. Don't give me that . Sorry to be harsh, but too many people are forgetting how good Manu was last season. All they remember is his last series against the Lakers. If Manu can get back to being healthy he is an incredible player.

[MateoNeygro]

Conclusion:

Malik should get ALL of Ime's minutes and some of Michael's. I think Malik has busted his ass when given the opportunity and he is a player that can take it to the rim which is scarce on this team.

I wonder how Bonsu could play with Tim? When Tim gets doubled could he pass it to Bonsu for dunks?

Hairston and Pops looked solid tonight, Im all for starting Pops over Bonner, all Bonner can do is shoot, we can bring him off the bench. Look at Pops stat line





Team's depth is in pretty good shape after all.

I don't feel bad at all about this game.

Actually, there's a lot of good things to take from this game .


Pops and Malik need more minutes.

Go Spurs!!!

Damn right never doubt a player named Malik!!

[Mavs<Spurs]

Just watch the 4th. It was fun to watch.

the second quarter was worth watching as well, imo.

[MarHill]

Bonner does have a nasty cross over.

Yeah a very nasty crossover!!!

[benefactor]

I agree with those that have said that this was one of the most enjoyable losses they have ever watched. Those were my exact thoughts as I turned the game off.

Honestly, I was expecting a loss. I knew that it would be incredibly difficult to duplicate the same type of play three games in a row against quality teams. Malik and Pops most certainly took the sting out of it with their energy and all out attack of the rim.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Damn right never doubt a player named Malik!!

This Malik for certain better than Nazr Mohammed -- LOL !

even though we won a ring in 2005 despite having Nazr on our team, having traded away our Malik.

[ploto]

Also, I like the fact that Hill, Vaughn, Hairston, and Mensah-Bonsu played better than the Cavs bench players in the 4th.

The Cavs were missing 2 players.

[ducks]

the cavs were missing 2 players.

no

[MarHill]

The Cavs were missing 2 players.

Yes I know they were missing 2 players!

Still it was their 12th, 13th, and 14th men against the Spurs' and I thought they played well!!

Let me enjoy something from this game!!!

[Josepatches_]

Manu hasn't even be an all-star the last several years. The last time he did make it, he was voted in by the coaches. 16 points a game and 4 rebounds and 4 assists a game won't get it done.

I love Manu, but we have to be honest.

Now, I know Manu's game is about so much more than numbers and there are all the intangibles that he brings to the table.

However, being MVP of the Italian league a couple of teams, being member of the Gold Medal Argentian team, being a player off the bench in 2003 of a team that won it all, making by coach's selection the all star team exactly once and being a key member of the 2005 NBA championship team, a supporting member of the 2007 NBA championship team and scoring 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game -- well that's probably not enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

Bruce was a starter for the 2003 and 2005 and 2007 teams that won it all.
Being a starter for a championship team isn't a strong argument for a person being in the Hall of Fame.

Being MVP of a league that is not equal in category to the NBA is also not a conclusive or convincing argument either.

The NBA is where the best basketball is played and that is not really debated. So, what has he done here. He hasn't made the starting team of the West ever for the All-Star team. And he only made it by coaching selection. The other years he didn't even make it at all.

So, in the NBA, he has not done much to show that he himself as an individual deserves to receive the individual recognition that the Hall of Fame provides.

I am a huge fan of Manu Ginobili. He's my second favorite Spur after Timmy.

But, I doubt that you will find many people who would agree that Manu is a lock for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has already done.

And that's not because I don't appreciate him -- he has been invaluable.

And without him, we might not have won several of our les (although Tim is the main reason why we won all 4 les-- even though Tony clearly deserved the 2007 Finals MVP trophy).

That's just my take.

2001 Euroleague MVP Finals
2001 Won Euroleague
2002 All-Tournament Team FIBA World Championship
2002 Plate Medal FIBA World Championship
2004 Olympics games MVP
2004 Ideal Olympics Team JJOO
2004 Olympic Games Gold Medal
2006 All-Tournament Team FIBA World Championship
2008 Bronze Medal JJOO

Imo he could be very close if you add his NBA's career.
But if you think that easily he could be the best player of the history of Argentina and they usually have a place for international names then it's not very strange that Manu can be part of the hall of fame in the future.

[carina_gino20]

My comments in bold:

Manu hasn't even be an all-star the last several years. The last time he did make it, he was voted in by the coaches. 16 points a game and 4 rebounds and 4 assists a game won't get it done.

If the Hall of Fame only looked at recent accomplishments, many guys who retired very late in their careers wouldn't get in. Not being an All-Star the past few seasons doesn't discount any accomplishments he has achieved in the past. Plus, we know he should have been there last year. You also forget that he put up career numbers just last year. As it is, people only remember the last series against the Lakers.


Now, I know Manu's game is about so much more than numbers and there are all the intangibles that he brings to the table.

However, being MVP of the Italian league a couple of teams, being member of the Gold Medal Argentian team, being a player off the bench in 2003 of a team that won it all, making by coach's selection the all star team exactly once and being a key member of the 2005 NBA championship team, a supporting member of the 2007 NBA championship team ( )and scoring 16 points a game, 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game -- well that's probably not enough to get into the Hall of Fame.

...


The NBA is where the best basketball is played and that is not really debated. So, what has he done here. He hasn't made the starting team of the West ever for the All-Star team. And he only made it by coaching selection. The other years he didn't even make it at all.

Because we know fans are incomparable judges of talent.


....

But, I doubt that you will find many people who would agree that Manu is a lock for the Hall of Fame based upon what he has already done.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...bili+hall+fame

Ginobili would have been a lock if he never came to the NBA and retired in 2004.

Awards
Italian League All-Star: 1999, 2000, 2001
Italian League Most Improved Player: 2000, 2001, 2002
Euroleague Finals Most Valuable Player: 2001
FIBA Americas Championship Most Valuable Player: 2001
Italian Cup Most Valuable Player: 2002
NBA All-Star: 2005
All-Tournament Team, FIBA World Championship: 2002, 2006
Ideal Olympics Team: 2004
Summer Olympic Games Most Valuable Player: 2004
Olimpia de Oro: 2003, 2004 (shared with Carlos Tévez)
50 Greatest Euroleague Contributors: 2008
NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award: 2008
All-NBA Third Team: 2008

les
Italian League Championship: 2001
Italian Cup: 2001, 2002
Euroleague: 2001
Americas Championship: 2001
NBA Championship: 2003, 2005, 2007
Summer Olympic Games gold medal: 2004
Summer Olympic Games bronze medal: 2008

Looks like a lock to me.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Manu should have made the All star team last season. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting. Don't give me that . Sorry to be harsh, but too many people are forgetting how good Manu was last season. All they remember is his last series against the Lakers. If Manu can get back to being healthy he is an incredible player.

If Manu makes it, an awful lot of other just above average NBA players will also have to make it because they were so good that there wasn't any doubt about their selection. Say what you will about the process, the absolute standouts make the All Star and usually start.

Do we really want to go down this path? Look at the 2 guards that he is competing with in the West? Brandon Roy, Kobe Bryant, Jason Richardson, Tracy McGrady when healthy,Josh Howard, ...

If he is not clearly better than any one of these players, then how can he be a lock for the HOFer without them ? team results ? awards won outside of the NBA?

Point is that HOFers would not have left any doubt -- they are starters on the All-Star most years. The fact that he barely made it one year and didn't make it any other year means that most years a number of other players AT HIS POSITION are considered better than him.

Supposing that he is better than most of these other players, the fact that it is even up for debate about whether or not he is better than many of these players ends the argument. And most NBA fans will tell you that Brandon Roy, for example, is a better player than Manu Ginobili, certainly this year.

I could see Tim Duncan being possibly considered a top 10 in MVP voting, but Manu Ginobili ? That just doesn't make any sense. -Being considered as possibly the best player in the league last year? C'mon. Anybody who voted that he was better than Kobe Bryant or Chris Paul or LeBron James was obviously not being realistic-- it could only be a homer. So, since those votes were made by people who weren't exercising good judgment, they don't give evidence of anything.

After all, I would bet very few people who post here would think that it was rational to vote for Manu last year as the Most Valuable Player in the league. And if people here don't think it's rational, then the average NBA fan wouldn't either. So, it wasn't a rational vote. Therefore, it is not evidence of anything other that there are homers who don't vote rationally.



A HOFer should normally be a starter for the All-Star team. They should also have better than pedestrian numbers like 16 pts a game and 4 rebounds a game and 4 assists a game (which I am rounding up).


I haven't seen an honest argument to support the thesis that Manu is a lock for the hall of fame or even should make the Hall of Fame.

The Hall of Fame is only for the very best players of all time.

A player like Tim Duncan . first team all defense NBA every year for first 10 years, Two time MVP, Three Time Finals MVP, four time NBA champion, Rookie of year.

And there is no guess that he deserves it.

or Shaq.

or Chris Webber.

Or Gary Payton.

These guys were perennial all star starters.

Vince Carter.

David Robinson.

Kobe Bryant.

LeBron James.

Chris Paul.

Dirk Nowitzki.

DWade.

Steve Nash.

Dwight Howard.

Even players like Chris Bosh, Paul Pierce aren't locks and they are closer than Manu. Ray Allen probably makes it, but that's not a given either.

Kevin Garnett makes it.


These guys were all starters consistently over a significant period of time for the all star teams. They were the very best at their position and everyone knew it. At times, they showed that they were the best players or near the best in the entire NBA for all players.

A number of players who were all stars every year might not even deserve the honor.

And Manu had to have been so good that it would not have been possible to leave him off the All Star team. It should not have even been close. He needed to be the best at his position. Instead, in his own conference, four or five players were judged to better than him AT HIS OWN POSITION.


You have to be honest with yourself.

If Manu returns to Super Manu form and is a major factor in winning a championship and makes another all-star team or two, then he has a legitimate argument which is worth considering. At this point, he doesn't have a legitimate argument, imho.