Are we better with Mason as our back up pg?

have you guys actually seen Mason handle the ball? I don't think I've seen anybody else in Spurs history get as many "carrying" calls as Mason..

Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

When its game 5 against LA. Yes I rather have Mason playing back up pg than Hill because not only is Hill probably our least efficient wing outside of udoka. It will give Bowen more minutes.

Now this part of your argument really confuses me.


"Hill should be benched because he is our least efficient wing outside of Udoka. "

HILL IS A MORE EFFICIENT WING THAN BOWEN ON OFFENSE BY FAR !!! BOWEN ON OFFENSE MAKES HILL LOOK LIKE MICHAEL JORDAN ON OFFENSE

And Hill is a very promising on defense and much younger and athletic than Bowen.

And in any event, adding 1 purely defensive player to our lineup won't improve our defense much, but it will make our offense much worse.

Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

When its game 5 against LA. Yes I rather have Mason playing back up pg than Hill because not only is Hill probably our least efficient wing outside of udoka. It will give Bowen more minutes.

Awesome, take away one of the guards who drives to the basket and causes the opponent problems.

Great gameplan.

so bench Bowen when we play the lakers in favor of hill?

Originally Posted by EricB

Awesome, take away one of the guards who drives to the basket and causes the opponent problems.

Great gameplan.

Hill is overrated on this board. His penetration isn't as threatening as you are implying. I rather give Bowen more minutes to guard Kobe. I guess I'm just crazy.

When it comes down to a decisive playoff game you can take it to the bank that Manu or Mason will be our back up point. Mark my words.

if Manu and Mason are the options and Hill is struggling, Pop will go to a different plan..he'll play Parker more minutes..I don't wanna see Manu or Mason playing PG..Mason doesn't have PG skills, and Manu is a horrible decision maker..

Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

so bench Bowen when we play the lakers in favor of hill?

That seems to imply Bowen is a starter now.

He is not. starting.

He is playing a couple of minutes a game every once in a while.

Bowen is not our back up point guard.

Mason does not have the ball handling skills required to be a back up point guard. He struggles handling the ball leading a fast break.

Hill will be our back up. He actually goes to the rim strong and is extremely athletic. And he plays good defense.


Again, how much better will our team defense be just because we put Bowen in?

How much does having Bowen in hurt our team offense because the other team only has to guard 4 players?

If it is the last play of a one possession game and the Lakers have the ball, then it makes sense to have Bowen in and not Hill.

However, mostly, they are not playing the same position.

Bruce cannot be our back up point guard. And neither can Mason.

Hill can and must be.

Originally Posted by Mavs<Spurs

That seems to imply Bowen is a starter now.

He is not. starting.

He is playing a couple of minutes a game every once in a while.

Bowen is not our back up point guard.

Mason does not have the ball handling skills required to be a back up point guard. He struggles handling the ball leading a fast break.

Hill will be our back up. He actually goes to the rim strong and is extremely athletic. And he plays good defense.


Again, how much better will our team defense be just because we put Bowen in?

How much does having Bowen in hurt our team offense because the other team only has to guard 4 players?

If it is the last play of a one possession game and the Lakers have the ball, then it makes sense to have Bowen in and not Hill.

However, mostly, they are not playing the same position.

Bruce cannot be our back up point guard. And neither can Mason.

Hill can and must be.

Do you understand that if Manu or Mason run back up pg that would mean Hill's 12 minutes that he would see come April and May would be available. That doesn't mean Bowen plays back up pg. And maybe Bowen doesn't have the ability to put it on the floor like Hill kind of does. But Bowen is very efficient at what he does. Hill is not very efficient at what he does YET.

Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

When it comes down to a decisive playoff game you can take it to the bank that Manu or Mason will be our back up point. Mark my words.

Then they will fail.

Hill is pretty good handling the ball. Who was that infamously tricky vet who screwed up Beno so many times, who applied pressure to Hill all game only to have him turn it over once? Pop may be afraid of using a rookie in the playoffs, and is getting Mason some minutes at point so he'll be ready to take over if need be (worst case scenario, Hill has problems like Parker did his first go-round).

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

if Manu and Mason are the options and Hill is struggling, Pop will go to a different plan..he'll play Parker more minutes..I don't wanna see Manu or Mason playing PG..Mason doesn't have PG skills, and Manu sometimes makes horrible decisions..

Edited the part about Manu to make it more true, imho.


Manu can play point, imo. But he can, at times, play fast and loose with the basketball and not value possessions.

However, at the end of most of our recent championship runs, Manu has been the playmaker. I think this is very difficult to deny. We put the ball in Manu's hands at the end of games and we run a Manu and Tim pick and roll. Or we post Timmy and Manu feeds him the ball. When Tim is doubled, he passes the ball out to a wide open Manu Ginobili who buries the 3.

Manu is clutch like that.

Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Hill is overrated on this board. His penetration isn't as threatening as you are implying. I rather give Bowen more minutes to guard Kobe. I guess I'm just crazy.

Yeah ok.

Originally Posted by Thompson

Hill is pretty good handling the ball. Who was that infamously tricky vet who screwed up Beno so many times, who applied pressure to Hill all game only to have him turn it over once? Pop may be afraid of using a rookie in the playoffs, and is getting Mason some minutes at point so he'll be ready to take over if need be (worst case scenario, Hill has problems like Parker did his first go-round).

Lindsey Hunter.

Made a point of after the game to go over and congratulate hill.

That alone speaks volumes.

Like in 05'?

Originally Posted by Mavs<Spurs

Edited the part about Manu to make it more true, imho.


Manu can play point, imo. But he can, at times, play fast and loose with the basketball and not value possessions.

However, at the end of most of our championship runs, Manu has been the playmaker. I think this is very difficult to deny. We put the ball in Manu's hands at the end of games and we run a Manu and Tim pick and roll. Or we post Timmy and Manu feeds him the ball. When Tim is doubled, he passes the ball out to a wide open Manu Ginobili who buries the 3.

Manu is clutch like that.

of course Manu is a playmaker..but everybody knows he ALWAYS has flashes a few times a game where he makes horrible decisions..when you play him at PG, he's going to have the ball in his hands more often, which will lead to more bad decisions..

Manu is a playmaking swingman, he doesn't have the mentality to play PG>.

Originally Posted by ducks

spurs are trying to win a ring

That's exactly what I think. Yes, I want Hill to develop and thrive here, but the Spurs are in contention to win a le this year. Given Hill's recent play, and Pop's general lack of trust in rookies for the playoffs, I expect Hill to be relegated to mop-up duty in the playoffs. Look for Ginobili, Mason, and yes, Vaughn to get Tony's backup minutes.

I'm afraid that Hill might never develop the way we think he could/should because he needs more minutes ... a starter's minutes. Unfortunately, he won't get those minutes here. We need someone who can give the team 10-15 quality minutes a night. Maybe Hill's not built that way.

I watched most of the Spurs games this season. When he started, Hill had some good games. When he didn't start, he had good moments, but I usually expected more than he delivered. He overachieved as a starter but underachieved as a backup. We need him to be an effective backup. Otherwise, there's no need for him.

Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

Like in 05'?

Barry played point.

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

of course Manu is a playmaker..but everybody knows he ALWAYS has flashes a few times a game where he makes horrible decisions..when you play him at PG, he's going to have the ball in his hands more often, which will lead to more bad decisions..

Manu is a playmaking swingman, he doesn't have the mentality to play PG>.

I guess we pretty much agree.

I am all in favor of doing whatever it takes to get Mason playing like he was earlier in the season.

I looked up the numbers on 82games.com..Manu played 0% of the team's minutes at PG during the playoff run..

Manu isn't a PG simple as that..I'm sure he would agree with that too..

Originally Posted by EricB

Barry played point.

My point exactly. Spurs don't need a guard with chris paul handles to bring the ball up the floor. Pop put Barry out there to surround duncan with very efficient players on the wing. Hill isn't efficient yet. That's why I believe Pop will turn to Manu or mason at back up pg come playoff time.

Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres

My point exactly. Spurs don't need a guard with chris paul handles to bring the ball up the floor. Pop put Barry out there to surround duncan with very efficient players on the wing. Hill isn't efficient yet. That's why I believe Pop will turn to Manu or mason at back up pg come playoff time.

Barry ball handling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Ginobili and Mason's ball handling


Huge difference.


Hill is not as bad as you think or hope.

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I looked up the numbers on 82games.com..Manu played 0% of the team's minutes at PG during the playoff run..

Manu isn't a PG simple as that..I'm sure he would agree with that too..

Manu is way too slow to compete with opposing team's point guards.

George Hill is just fine. Leave him alone.

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I looked up the numbers on 82games.com..Manu played 0% of the team's minutes at PG during the playoff run..

Manu isn't a PG simple as that..I'm sure he would agree with that too..

Barry and Manu both shared back up pg duties in 05' and 08'. Even in 06' against Dallas when van exel was not effective. Pop didn't really face a must win situation in 07', so he didn't have to demote Vaughn's duties that year.