Gooden could make smooth transition to Spurs

[xtremesteven33]

Gooden is a double double waiting to happen.

We havent had that in a long time from a BIG

[temujin]

I think the following.

1) Gooden was the best Cav on the court in the 07 finals, at least offensively. In general, I couldn't remember a Cleveland or Bulls game in which I thought he was miserable.

2) Stats are pretty decent, never averaging less than 10 and 8. He particularly flourished under Brown in Cleveland, a photocopy of the Spurs system.

3) The guy is 27.

4) A head case?: possibly although "opened the Drew Gooden Reading and Learning Center at Cleveland’s East End Neighborhood House in September 2005 … won the NBA Community Assist Award in October 2005 … named the Al Lerner Community Service Award winner at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards in February 2006 … has been named among professional athletes as “Good Guys in Sports” by The Sporting News on three occasions."

5) Comes essentially for free.

6) Plays no defense? Defense is a mental thing: there is nothing that cannot be learnt.

7) Most importantly: whott doesn't like him. So he could be another Scola.

There are, however, three big questions, in this order.

-Is he hurt?
-Is he on drugs?
-Why should he choose the Spurs, rather than Cleveland?

[Marcus Bryant]

If Bonner is so mentally weak, He doesn't have what it takes to play a playoff game.
I say,If Bonner can manage to keep performing as he's been,them He'll show He belongs to this team. Otherwise,Show him the way out.

Yeah, what the ? Holy crap our light ass rebounding center is that fragile mentally? The point of Bonner's existence is that he's supposed to be a hard nosed oaf to make up for his lack of mobility and athletic grace.

Man, the drop off from Thomas to Bonner and Oberto is huge.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Yeah and so many guys that play for the Spurs get past it. Like...um...I can't think of one. Matt Bonner starts because every other experienced big on the team is in their mid 30's or later.

Truth is...if he put Duncan, Parker or Manu in that situation they'd probably perform similarly to Udoka, Finley, and all the other former good players and even All Stars that didn't play well when he put them in that situation. He never truly put Duncan, Manu or Parker in that situation.


I want you to tell me what you have seen in Matt Bonner's Spurs career that lets you know this isn't going to impact the incredibly high level at which he's shot the ball this season.

Usually I agree with you Whottt and I enjoy your takes... but if you're saying that Duncan, Parker, and Gino would fold under the pressure of hypothetical compe ion for their roll on the team you have lost your mind. I'm hoping that's not what you meant.

[Marcus Bryant]

what I'm saying is that If Bonner is gonna lose his confidence if they bring another big guy to the rotation, He is not mentally ready for the win or go home playoffs type of games.
He can hustle all He wants,and that's great, but if that famus 3 ball that kept him in this team aint falling,them Pop will bench him....for good.

I agree with you. My tone was directed at the genius you were addressing.

[whottt]

Usually I agree with you Whottt and I enjoy your takes... but if you're saying that Duncan, Parker, and Gino would fold under the pressure of hypothetical compe ion for their roll on the team you have lost your mind. I'm hoping that's not what you meant.

I'm saying that Duncan, Parker and Manu are hardly flawless and if Pop had equally talented players behind them and could yank them and not play them for the rest of the game if they were having an off game or off to a slow start...they'd press too.


Furthermore, as I said earlier, there have been proven players that have struggled when put in that situation on this team...

When Malik Rose found himself in a compe ion with Horry he struggled. And he'd already won two rings with the Spurs and had some big playoff games for us. It happened to Stever Kerr his first year, Kerr and his 3 rings. It happpened to Barry, It happened to Horry. Horry even mentioned last year that not knowing he was going to be able to stay on the court was a distraction...it happened to Michael Finley as well.

It also happened to Avery Johnson before them.


Parker, Manu and Duncan are no different...it's not like they start off dominating every game and never have an off game...they've sucked for halves or quarters...the difference between they and the role players is that there is no one comparable to them in terms of talent on the team.



That game 5 against the Pistons by Horry in the 2005 Finals?

It was probably the worst game of his entire career up until there was 1 minute left in the third quarter...luckily for us Pop didn't really have any other options...or else that 4th quarter and OT by him never happens.



Bonner is certainly no differrent than any of thse guys, and in fact we can look back as recently as last year and see he didn't play as well when his role was more limited. And you guys are claiming he is going to buck this trend and continue to shoot at a red hot pace when he's got someone more talented lurking behind the bench behind him...


So Marcus Byrant and timvp get to engage in their favorite pasttime of calling players mentally weak or clueless...while the team suffers because of this sort of philosophy.

And boy you talk a projection...if I had a dollar for every time this guys pulled the weak or sucks card because of Pop's sutbs utions and then changed their tune when, miraculously, the player started playing better when he got more minutes to do an injury....I could retire right now.


Here is the guide book:

Pop develops a quick hook or splits their minutes and role(due to depth) = It is deserved because they are playing poorly. It's never that they start playing poorly becauise of what Pop did, Pop always has a valid reason for doing it.

Compe or gets injured or doghoused and thus the players role becomes more clear and expanded = Player is suddenly figuring it out and really well.


It's like watching a couple of rats wander in a maze...they do it almost every year, totally in conjunction with Pop's whims.

[coachmac87]

Spurs aint winning with out rebounding or defense....Bonner does not offer any of those.

The 3ball is great....But that is not Spurs Basketball. We need defense and rebounding. Bonner can shoot 3's and hustle while coming off the bench. If he has no confidence him then. But I doubt he will.....How can you shoot aorund 50% all year and then move to the bench and lose all your confidence????

His role coming off the bench would be the same as it is starting...Shoot when your open!

[whottt]

Well it's going to be funny because old mentally weak Bonner has contributed to several big wins this year. and they count as much as wins by non-mentally weak players...

Remember that when Bonner's shooting goes into the tank. His threes counted as much as the mentaly strong guys.

[timvp]

whottt is now playing the "Barry was just as good as Duncan, Manu and Parker ... the difference was he just had more compe ion" card. Amazing

Move on. He's on the Rockets. It's 2009.

[whottt]

Stop selling yourself short...you're a better Barry troll then I ever was on my best day.


Just kills you he turned out to be a Laker killer after you spent 4 years calling him heartless, doesn't it?

That's Elson level ownage there.

Me? I wasn' surprised he wasn't mentally as the board "experts" claimed...nor am I surprised his numbers have mysteriously gone into the tank this year...it's not mental weakness, and it also doens't have that much to do with confidence.


The only players that do well in that limited role structure are ancient ones that don't even want to be on the court for a lot of minutes, and that's only after they've realized that they just don't have the legs for heavy minutes anymore(which usually takes a while for them to realize)...not guys that are 28 years old.

[Spursmania]

More than likely his aquisition will break Bonner's focus and get him looking over his shoulder(insert comment about what a wuss Bonner is here) causing him to shoot worse...leaving us with 2 ty offensive and defensive forwards.

Plleeasse, I hope you're not going to use Gooden as an excuse for Bonner if he sucks during the playoffs.
Because I have never seen Bonner have a great night when we play LA (without Gooden) and that, my friend, worries me. __________________

[roycrikside]

whottt is now playing the "Barry was just as good as Duncan, Manu and Parker ... the difference was he just had more compe ion" card. Amazing

Move on. He's on the Rockets. It's 2009.

In some respects I agree with Whott. It's not exactly fair to Matt when he's having a career year, leading the league in three point percentage and putting up a respectable PER of like 17 or whatever, and he has to compete with a new guy for minutes, meanwhile someone like Fin is free to suck game after game and he's still guaranteed his 25 mins a night.

[whottt]

Oh he's going to go into the tank long before the playoffs roll around...he's going to do it the first or second time Pop goes to the Gooden card.

It's not a question that Matt Bonner's numbers will go down from this point on, it's also not a question that Gooden in no way has a bright future with this team, because he doesn't...the only question is whether or not Bonner's numbers'll go back up again when Gooden is sucking...

There's no way they'll go back up to their current level IMHO.

As for the Lakers...I never claimed Bonner is a Laker Killer, we've only got one of those and his name is Mason...but he certainly seems to have the Celtics number. But if he's shooing nearly 50% from 3 and knocks down a couple against LA, he should draw a defender consistently even from Phil...anyway, I have been worried about LA all year and never claimed Bonner was the fix to them...


Gooden damn sure isn't either...because he's an idiot, and idiots are the absolute worst thing you can put on the floor against LA.

[Marcus Bryant]

In some respects I agree with Whott. It's not exactly fair to Matt when he's having a career year, leading the league in three point percentage and putting up a respectable PER of like 17 or whatever, and he has to compete with a new guy for minutes, meanwhile someone like Fin is free to suck game after game and he's still guaranteed his 25 mins a night.

Welcome to professional basketball. Here's your $200k check for the last two weeks worth of "work."

*sniff* I hope he'll be alright.

[timvp]

Stop selling yourself short...you're a better Barry troll then I ever was on my best day.

To this day, you turn every thread into a Barry thread. You are the Barry grand champion. Unanimously.

Just kills you he turned out to be a Laker killer after you spent 4 years calling him heartless, doesn't it?

Link to me calling him heartless last season? And yeah, I was so sad when he was making those threes against the Lakers

If I were you, I'd say something like "Spurs lost 1-4 *scofffff*" but I give Barry props for his play. He went out in style

But now it's 2009.

That's Elson level ownage there.

Still haven't gotten an explanation of what "Elson ownage" even is. I don't think anyone else knows either.

Me? I wasn' surprised he wasn't mentally as the board "experts" claimed

Mentally what?

...nor am I surprised his numbers have mysteriously gone into the tank this year...it's not mental weakness, and it also doens't have that much to do with confidence.

Yeah, says the guy who once claimed Barry could put up Magic Johnson type numbers if he ran the point and got continuous touches.

The only players that do well in that limited role structure

Let. It. Go. 2009.

[Cry Havoc]

Oh he's going to go into the tank long before the playoffs role around...he's going to do it the first or second time Pop goes to the Gooden card.

It's not a question that Matt Bonner's numbers will go down from this point on, it's also not a question that Gooden in no way has a bright future with this team, because he doesn't...the only question is whether or not Bonner's numbers'll go back up again when Gooden is sucking...there's no way they'll go back up to their current level IMHO.

The faith you have in Matt Bonner is astounding.

[FromWayDowntown]

Frankly, I don't think it's Bonner's minutes that are in jeopardy. I think the minutes in question are those played by Fabricio Oberto along with a handful of extra minutes that can be skimmed from Duncan and Thomas.

Hey, but if it provides a useful avenue to demonize Drew Gooden and predict that it will have been a poor choice to sign him, manufacture whatever concerns you can.

[timvp]

In some respects I agree with Whott. It's not exactly fair to Matt when he's having a career year, leading the league in three point percentage and putting up a respectable PER of like 17 or whatever, and he has to compete with a new guy for minutes, meanwhile someone like Fin is free to suck game after game and he's still guaranteed his 25 mins a night.

I don't think whottt is arguing that exact point. whottt has said all along that Bonner will choke in the playoffs. Now he's saying the same thing but blaming it on Gooden.

And if there were a perimeter player available who could come in for Gooden's price and compete with Finley for minutes, the Spurs would be making the same move.

[timvp]

Oh he's going to go into the tank long before the playoffs roll around

You've been calling Bonner a choker for almost three years now. You can't blame Gooden for that too.

[whottt]

To this day, you turn every thread into a Barry thread. You are the Barry grand champion. Unanimously.

Link to me calling him heartless last season? And yeah, I was so sad when he was making those threes against the Lakers

If I were you, I'd say something like "Spurs lost 1-4 *scofffff*" but I give Barry props for his play. He went out in style

But now it's 2009.

Still haven't gotten an explanation of what "Elson ownage" even is. I don't think anyone else knows either.

Mentally what?

Yeah, says the guy who once claimed Barry could put up Magic Johnson type numbers if he ran the point and got continuous touches.

Let. It. Go. 2009.

The Barry tunnel vision is astounding.

[whottt]

You've been calling Bonner a choker for almost three years now. You can't blame Gooden for that too.

Choking is one thing...shooting nearly 50% from 3 is entirely another. I never said Bonner couldn't put up numbers if he got minutes...on the contrary, I say just about any player can and will put up numbers with minutes, and just about any player can and will struggle with a lack of them...it's you guys that don't get that. That's what we are arguing about right now.

BTW, just because Bonner is shooting 50% from 3 doesn't mean he's not a choker either...uncross those wires.

[FromWayDowntown]

BTW, just because Bonner is shooting 50% from 3 doesn't mean he's not a choker either...uncross those wires.

So he still might be a choker, but Gooden will undoubtedly make him choke?

[whottt]

No...Gooden will undoubtedly make him stop shooting nearly 50% from 3.

[timvp]

just about any player can and will struggle with a lack of them

Do you have to fill a Barry reference quota per post?

BTW, just because Bonner is shooting 50% from 3 doesn't mean he's not a choker either...uncross those wires.

Obviously. I still think Bonner is probably a choker. He could shoot 60% on threes but with the way I've seen him play during crunch time, I just can't see him being a stone cold playoff performer.

Hope I'm wrong.

[Spursmania]

In some respects I agree with Whott. It's not exactly fair to Matt when he's having a career year, leading the league in three point percentage and putting up a respectable PER of like 17 or whatever, and he has to compete with a new guy for minutes, meanwhile someone like Fin is free to suck game after game and he's still guaranteed his 25 mins a night.

Fairness? This is the NBA where the men get payed big to play ball. If Matt crumbles because we have signed Gooden and his minutes are decreased then he's on the wrong team. He's a big boy and he's been shooting damn well. I am not here to bash Bonner because I think Bonner is having a great year and has helped the Spurs offensively. I am trying to understand how Whottt can possibly believe we should not sign Gooden because it would be deflating to Matt's confidence. , if the team had used that nonsensical logic we would have never won 4 Championships. Spurs play as a team and everybody has to understand the strengths and weaknesses and then deal with them.

But to expect the Spurs organization to cradle and rock Mattie like a baby so his confidence can shoot up and/or remain intact is ludicrous. He's a big boy he can take care of himself. -this is the NBA!!