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Funny how the Church is willing to excommunicate someone for a "sin" while Christ forgives all who seek it. Doesn't really make sense, and this is from a lifetime Catholic.
I'm against abortion in almost all cases, but right here I can't see how 3 dead is supposed to be better than 2.
Funny how the Church is willing to excommunicate someone for a "sin" while Christ forgives all who seek it. Doesn't really make sense, and this is from a lifetime Catholic.
You would think with all those centuries of knowledge they would know how to keep their priest form molesting boys.
Buddha,Cannibalism,and worshiping Satan has been around even longer does that make any of them right?
What decision? There wasn't a "decision".
Less malevolent option? Why is it a malevolent option? I have no idea why does excommunication have any kind of malevolent nature.
What's exactly the problem? Do you want forgiveness without a sin? How's that possible? What are you forgiving? The excommunication is automatic, it's a consequence of the sin - nobody really "decides" it. The absolution or forgiveness is a consequence of the confession and repentance.
The decision to excommunicate wasn't a decision?
I give up. I think you're having some difficulty understanding how the church's decision is not without significant social implications for the people affected and how the compassionate thing for the church to have done would have been to take that into consideration and either a) opt out of excommunication, or b) excommunicate, but do so privately. It was not my impression that all excommunications made the news cycle on a global scale, nor do I believe that the international news the best place for a sexually abused 9 year old girl to be.
The excommunication is automatic. If people commit certain sins, they become automatically excommunicated. So, from a certain perspective, it was a decision, but not from the Church hierarchy.
You should read the article linked (there's no way of "opting out of excommunication" - only thing that can be done is to concede absolution) first; read some more about this particular case second. LOL at the idea that the catholic church tried to publicize this case or bring it to the news.I give up. I think you're having some difficulty understanding how the church's decision is not without significant social implications for the people affected and how the compassionate thing for the church to have done would have been to take that into consideration and either a) opt out of excommunication, or b) excommunicate, but do so privately. It was not my impression that all excommunications made the news cycle on a global scale, nor do I believe that the international news the best place for a sexually abused 9 year old girl to be.
The amount of dogma that people take seriously boggles my mind sometimes. I'm no atheist, but damn, the awe people have for the pettiness of religion is hard for me to wrap my mind around.
I wasn't kidding when I said that I give up, but I did have a laugh at that. Like the Catholic church doesn't know how to turn a blind eye ...
Remind me what the point is for excommunicating someone. Is it similar to the Scarlett Letter?
In this example the mom of the little girl is automatically excommunicated for wanting to save her daughter?
If excommunication is automatic why did the archbishop have to make an announcement about it?
Educate me.
I don't think it's fair to assume that it was the church who put this out into the public eye. More than likely a reporter caught a blurb from any one of many possible sources and went looking for answers.
Mogrovejo, I appreciate the link it clarified some things for me. I don't support Catholic church but I think I understand where they are coming from.
sellout!Mogrovejo, I appreciate the link it clarified some things for me. I don't support Catholic church but I think I understand where they are coming from.
Sell out my ass!! It was a freaking definition....
If a member of the Church is excommunicated that means he needs to reflect, repent and correct whatever his deeds or statements were. The point is merely to make that member conscious of that need.
English is not my primary language. Or even my fourth. You'd be better served by reading this text:
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Abortio2.htm
I believe it answers your questions.
I think you're still missing the point. Imagine a situation where nobody would knew from the abortion. The mother of the girl and the doctors would still be excommunicated. The excommunication is not a judicial sentence or anything like that.
Actually I think you're missing the point. I am certain that this exact situation has occurred in other countries without the involved parties being excommunicated. If you agree that is the case then you have to agree that it was a decision made by the catholic church in Brazil.
For the record, I'm not a Catholic either (or a Christian, or a person of Faith). What I do believe that the intellectual and philosophical production of the Catholicism is one of the most valuable patrimonies of the Human Civilization, that freedom of Religion is one of the most important liberties and that safe-guarding churches and ecclesias from emotional and reactionary criticisms from ignorant outsiders and non-believers has become a duty in these days.
I don't know what else to say. Every person involved in an abortion - directly or indirectly - is automatically excommunicated, unless he or she is younger than 16 (that's why the girl wasn't excommunicated) or doesn't know the law (the 5th commandment). Or was forced to abort or cooperate with an abortion, of course. Brazil, USA, Finland, China, Mozambique... it doesn't matter. It's automatic, nobody has to know about that, except the person (or people) who commits the sin (and God, obviously). What's so difficult to understand about this?
ps - well, unless the sinners aren't Catholics. In that case, of course there's no excommunication.
My problem with this is that I don't see what the mother, the 9 year old girl and the doctor need to repent for. They did nothing wrong (in fact they did the right thing imo) so I don't see why they need to repent and ask for forgivness.......which is the point of excommunication.
Great. Don't enter the Catholic Church then. You and that Church have different views on that issue. For them, an abortion is always, in every case, something wrong. People who don't agree with that aren't Catholics therefore can't be excommunicated. So, you don't have a problem at all. Quite simple.
As I know some catholic women that have had abortions and still regularly attend the catholic church I find it difficult to believe your position.I don't know what else to say. Every person involved in an abortion - directly or indirectly - is automatically excommunicated, unless he or she is younger than 16 (that's why the girl wasn't excommunicated) or doesn't know the law (the 5th commandment). Or was forced to abort or cooperate with an abortion, of course. Brazil, USA, Finland, China, Mozambique... it doesn't matter. It's automatic, nobody has to know about that, except the person (or people) who commits the sin (and God, obviously). What's so difficult to understand about this?
ps - well, unless the sinners aren't Catholics. In that case, of course there's no excommunication.
If I were you, I'd consider reading my posts before commenting on my position. Here's what I wrote in my 1st or 2nd post:
It seems to me that you're confusing excommunication with some kind of ostracism. It has nothing to do with that, quite the opposite. An excommunication is an invitation to repentance, reflection and a deeper involvement with the Church. People are not forbidden of going to the Mass, for example; quite the opposite, they're encouraged to go more.
In which part of my position you don't believe?
Ps. - plus, do you know if those women weren't absolved and therefore aren't excommunicated anymore? All it takes is a single confession, nothing more.
owned tlong
pac10 style
My girlfriend is catholic and had two abortions and I don't remember ever hearing about this Excommunication bull .
Could you imagine if every girl or woman with an abortion left the church? There would be no one left except Angel_luv and Jekka.
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