Kobe = Jordan

[scanry]

I can tell you must be a young piece of pussy. The reason the Jordan Rules were developed was because nobody could breathe on his ass or he got two free throws. The Pistons were like " it, when we hit him, we're gonna make it count, cuz the mutha a is goin' to the line anyways...so make his ass pay to get there" Get it?

Anybody that knows even a little bit about Jordan's career knows that you couldn't even look at him too hard or he shot two. And he got away with more crab dribbles (lmao) and physicality than most players. Ask Bryon Russell who, who got pushed halfway back to Long Beach State so MJ could hit one of the coldest daggers in league history.

Some of you cats have it so backwards that it's a in joke. The Pistons are the exception to the rule. They didn't play that panzie with MJ, but if you think that's how the league was back in the day, you muhfuggas must be smokin'. The game was free-flowing back then too, it's just that old school players ALWAYS act like they had it harder in their time. Sheeit, it was nothin' to see 240 points on the board back then.

Do ya research!

Guy, Kobe is in the same boat. it's even worse with him. The 2002 WCF alone will negate any ing and whining about Jordan by the Laker fans.

[DAF86]

now is the time for all the noobies/nostalgic delusionites to accept that technically, Kobe = Jordan. period. this is the best scorer in the league by far, he is complete as , great passer, never gives up on defense as a guard and BLOCKS SHOTS, does exactly what his team needs at any given time, hits more DAGGER shots/clutch baskets than anyone, is unguardable and can will hismteam to victory better than ANYONE. Boston last year guarded him better than ive seen anyone guard him, and he lost because his team had too many non-black players i key roles while Boston had nothing but big strong athletic guys at every position.

but if they meet again in the Finals LA will RAPE them. i hope the Spurs have enough to beat them and they certainly can, but seriously its time for all these JORDAN = GOD people to accept that Kobe is all that Jordan was.

I was preparing myself to read some stupid but I wasn't ready for the racial part.

[ambchang]

You guys are all haters. Kobe is already miles ahead of Jordan, Wilt and Russell combined.

[Def Rowe]

how poised was kobe in this game?

http://www.nba.com/games/20060506/LALPHX/recap.html



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...ilydime-060507

2006... Laker haters who likely didn't watch that game wouldn't understand. That was a statement game by Kobe to the front office. I remember it quite well. The entire team couldn't hit an open jumper in the 2nd half... At all. It was a ing joke. No fire from anyone (except Lamar) in an elimination game. Kobe would draw the double team then kick it out to Brian Cook for three. CLANK! Smush Parker, you're open, be the hero. CLANK! Luke Walton, you're wide open bud, make it happen. CLANK! Kwame, you got low post position, let's do this. MISSED LAYUP.. TURNOVER.. BRICK!

I completely understood what Kobe was doing at the time and was glad he did it. Had nothing to do with poise. It was about wanting his team to play with some ing heart.

[DAF86]

2006... Laker haters who likely didn't watch that game wouldn't understand. That was a statement game by Kobe to the front office. I remember it quite well. The entire team couldn't hit an open jumper in the 2nd half... At all. It was a ing joke. No fire from anyone (except Lamar) in an elimination game. Kobe would draw the double team then kick it out to Brian Cook for three. CLANK! Smush Parker, you're open, be the hero. CLANK! Luke Walton, you're wide open bud, make it happen. CLANK! Kwame, you got low post position, let's do this. MISSED LAYUP.. TURNOVER.. BRICK!

I completely understood what Kobe was doing at the time and was glad he did it. Had nothing to do with poise. It was about wanting his team to play with some ing heart.

Just when I thought Lakers fans couldn't get any lower.

[Def Rowe]

Just when I thought Lakers fans couldn't get any lower.

How? That's an accurate description of what happened.

[DAF86]

How? That's an accurate description of what happened.

That's ridiculous and if it is true then Kobe is even dumber than I thought.

[Def Rowe]

That's ridiculous and if it is true then Kobe is even dumber than I thought.

Kobe is dumb for being surrounded by NBADL players in 2006. Got it.

[DAF86]

Kobe is dumb for being surrounded by NBADL players in 2006. Got it.

No, he is dumb for not trying his best in a game 7.

And for not beign able to get along with the most dominant player of his era, and for wanting to trade Bynum for Kidd and for getting in some strange bussines in Colorado and...

[stretch]

That's the best way to sum it up. Russell played in like an 8 team league with white guys 5 inches shorter than him at center, anything less than the dominating career he had would have been a disappointment.

My point exactly, as to why Wilt and Russell are the two most overrated players in NBA history.

[stretch]

Lakers fans are different than a lot of WC teams fans. If we don't win, we pull for the Western Conference no matter who's playing. So all of those years that the Bulls won, I was pulling for the other team and despised them.

but you're a rockets fan you ing idiot

[Def Rowe]

No, he is dumb for not trying his best in a game 7.

And for not beign able to get along with the most dominant player of his era, and for wanting to trade Bynum for Kidd and for getting in some strange bussines in Colorado and...

That's a popular opinion. That's cool.

- Shaq respects Kobe quite a lot actually.

- Bynum sucked. His upside was unknown 2 years ago. After Kobe called Bynum out, he turned into a beast.

- Colorado... 3 other semen stains in the panties... wanted to be famous...

You dislike Kobe because he's not on the Spurs.

[stretch]

Oh one last point. I love the comparison between MJ's hey day and all of the great players he played against when he won those les. All of the great big men Hakeem, Ewing, Drob, Shaq, Kemp, Brad D from cleveland etc, Zo, Barkley and Malone....not one of those guys ever guarded MJ or were guarded by MJ and MJ's teams still percevered. Maybe we should annoint Luc Longley, Bill Wenington, and Rodman as the real MVPs..............because when it comes down to talent and level of play....show the me the great 2 guards and 3 SF's that were awesome during his reign......yup, I'll give you Drexler....John Starks, Dumars ?, Mullin, Hornacek, Craig Ehlo.....yup.

I will have to say, there is definitely some truth to this. Kobe has had to deal with a much better group of SG's and SF's than Jordan ever did.

I understand why Kobe fans hate on Jordan so much, and a lot of it is because people tend to overrate Jordan, in the sense that he is light years ahead of Kobe, when he really isnt. Is Jordan better? No question. But its not like he is so much ing better that Kobe can't even compete. In a seven game series against each other, if Jordan averaged 30 ppg, Kobe would probably average 26-27.

In terms of skills, they are very close. My issue with Kobe lies in the mental aspect of the game. He has always been bad about settling for jumpers and losing aggression. Those were things that never were a problem with Jordan. He would never give up, and would attack non-stop until the clock hit 0.0.

I don't think Kobe will ever be able to have a chance to pass Jordan unless he wins AT LEAST 3 more MVPs and rings, just because of the fact that he won all his rings with Shaq (who is arguably the most dominant center, and maybe even player ever), lost two finals, and he was largely at fault for BOTH of them, especially when blowing the huge lead in game 4 against Boston, something that wouldn't have happened had it been Jordan, because the BIGGEST reason it happed, was Kobe was settling for bad jumpers and lost his aggression... something Jordan would rarely ever do, especially in the playoffs.

[Medvedenko]

I will have to say, there is definitely some truth to this. Kobe has had to deal with a much better group of SG's and SF's than Jordan ever did.

I understand why Kobe fans hate on Jordan so much, and a lot of it is because people tend to overrate Jordan, in the sense that he is light years ahead of Kobe, when he really isnt. Is Jordan better? No question. But its not like he is so much ing better that Kobe can't even compete. In a seven game series against each other, if Jordan averaged 30 ppg, Kobe would probably average 26-27.

In terms of skills, they are very close. My issue with Kobe lies in the mental aspect of the game. He has always been bad about settling for jumpers and losing aggression. Those were things that never were a problem with Jordan. He would never give up, and would attack non-stop until the clock hit 0.0.

I don't think Kobe will ever be able to have a chance to pass Jordan unless he wins AT LEAST 3 more MVPs and rings, just because of the fact that he won all his rings with Shaq (who is arguably the most dominant center, and maybe even player ever), lost two finals, and he was largely at fault for BOTH of them, especially when blowing the huge lead in game 4 against Boston, something that wouldn't have happened had it been Jordan, because the BIGGEST reason it happed, was Kobe was settling for bad jumpers and lost his aggression... something Jordan would rarely ever do, especially in the playoffs.

Good post....

Also for the record, I hated MJ and his tactics way before KOBE was in the league. I don't like players quitting and taking 2 years off for bs reasons. Imagine if Kobe did that....yikes and internets would explode.

[ambchang]

That's the best way to sum it up. Russell played in like an 8 team league with white guys 5 inches shorter than him at center, anything less than the dominating career he had would have been a disappointment.

Russell was 6-9”, 215 lbs.

In Russell’s rookie year, the Nationals have Dolph Schayes (6-7) and Red Kerr (6-9) at center, the Warriors had Neil Johnsont (6-8), and bunch of 6-7 guys, the Knicks had Phil Jordan at 6-10, Ray Felix at 6-11, and a couple of 6-9, 6-8 guys. Pistons have a few 6-7 to 6-9 guys. Basically, the center position back in the day was 6-7 to 6-11, with 6-9 pretty much being the norm.
In Russell’s final year, he was battling the Chamberlains, the Hayes, and the Reeds.
Russell was about average for a center in his days.

[stretch]

Russell was 6-9”, 215 lbs.

In Russell’s rookie year, the Nationals have Dolph Schayes (6-7) and Red Kerr (6-9) at center, the Warriors had Neil Johnsont (6-8), and bunch of 6-7 guys, the Knicks had Phil Jordan at 6-10, Ray Felix at 6-11, and a couple of 6-9, 6-8 guys. Pistons have a few 6-7 to 6-9 guys. Basically, the center position back in the day was 6-7 to 6-11, with 6-9 pretty much being the norm.
In Russell’s final year, he was battling the Chamberlains, the Hayes, and the Reeds.
Russell was about average for a center in his days.

I'd say the size advantage argument goes more towards Wilt.

Russell though played on a stacked team in an 8 team league, which is why he won so much. Wilt was dominant because there simply was no one that could even begin to compete with him athletically. He might be the only player from that era that can compare to today's top athletes.

[Cry Havoc]

Why is this thread still active?

[JoeTait75]

The reason the Jordan Rules were developed was because nobody could breathe on his ass or he got two free throws. The Pistons were like " it, when we hit him, we're gonna make it count, cuz the mutha a is goin' to the line anyways...so make his ass pay to get there" Get it?

This is true. MJ got away with murder- extra steps, push-offs, phantom contact, you name it. And he got the calls everywhere, home and road. That 63-point game he had against the Celtics in the '86 Playoffs, he probably shot 20 free throws in that game- in Boston. Detroit just decided to get its money's worth.

That having been said, Jordan changed the game in ways Kobe never has or will. He was the single biggest reason why the NBA went from the free-flowing style of the '80s to the basket-brawl style of the '90s. Teams slowed the tempo and became more physical on defense just to deal with him. Teams like the Pistons, Knicks and Heat were constructed primarily with stopping MJ in mind, or at least slowing him down.

The West on the other hand stuck with the running game long after the East had abandoned it. That's because they didn't have to deal with MJ in the Playoffs.

That's why MJ > Kobe. He affected the way the NBA game was played far more than Kobe. And MJ was on another level as a compe or. He combined great physical gifts and skills with the relentlessness of a Moses Malone. He would have never mailed in an elimination game to prove a point.

[The Franchise]

Why is this thread still active?

[dirk4mvp]

a J.J. Hickson = Karl Malone thread would be much more appropriate.

[The Franchise]

a J.J. Hickson = Karl Malone thread would be much more appropriate.

Make it happen!!

[LakeShow]

I will have to say, there is definitely some truth to this. Kobe has had to deal with a much better group of SG's and SF's than Jordan ever did.

I understand why Kobe fans hate on Jordan so much, and a lot of it is because people tend to overrate Jordan, in the sense that he is light years ahead of Kobe, when he really isnt. Is Jordan better? No question. But its not like he is so much ing better that Kobe can't even compete. In a seven game series against each other, if Jordan averaged 30 ppg, Kobe would probably average 26-27.

In terms of skills, they are very close. My issue with Kobe lies in the mental aspect of the game. He has always been bad about settling for jumpers and losing aggression. Those were things that never were a problem with Jordan. He would never give up, and would attack non-stop until the clock hit 0.0.

I don't think Kobe will ever be able to have a chance to pass Jordan unless he wins AT LEAST 3 more MVPs and rings, just because of the fact that he won all his rings with Shaq (who is arguably the most dominant center, and maybe even player ever), lost two finals, and he was largely at fault for BOTH of them, especially when blowing the huge lead in game 4 against Boston, something that wouldn't have happened had it been Jordan, because the BIGGEST reason it happed, was Kobe was settling for bad jumpers and lost his aggression... something Jordan would rarely ever do, especially in the playoffs.

It never seems to amaze me how idiots like your self who never saw Michael Jordan play before he became a wizard comment on his game. What do you think, Jordan just came into the league winning championships? He went thru the same that Kobe's gone thru. It took him years of jacking up shots before he learned to trust his team mates. Bad shots were not unusual for Jordan in his early years as well.

The loses in the finals were a team loss. It was hardly Kobe's fault that the lakers lost to Boston and Detroit. It was a team loss.

btw, Michael didn't sniff a finals until his 7th season. Kobe's lead his team to the finals in his 4th season and on the verge of winning it in his 5th season. Just sayin...

[The Franchise]

It never seems to amaze me how idiots like your self who never saw Michael Jordan play before he became a wizard comment on his game. What do you think, Jordan just came into the league winning championships? He went thru the same that Kobe's gone thru. It took him years of jacking up shots before he learned to trust his team mates. Bad shots were not unusual for Jordan in his early years as well.

The loses in the finals were a team loss. It was hardly Kobe's fault that the lakers lost to Boston and Detroit. It was a team loss.

btw, Michael didn't sniff a finals until his 7th season. Kobe's lead his team to the finals in his 4th season and on the verge of winning it in his 5th season. Just sayin...

Who's your math teacher?

[stretch]

It never seems to amaze me how idiots like your self who never saw Michael Jordan play before he became a wizard comment on his game. What do you think, Jordan just came into the league winning championships? He went thru the same that Kobe's gone thru. It took him years of jacking up shots before he learned to trust his team mates. Bad shots were not unusual for Jordan in his early years as well.

The loses in the finals were a team loss. It was hardly Kobe's fault that the lakers lost to Boston and Detroit. It was a team loss.

btw, Michael didn't sniff a finals until his 7th season. Kobe's lead his team to the finals in his 4th season and on the verge of winning it in his 5th season. Just sayin...

i never said that michael didnt have his own issues earlier in his career. but his strengths outweigh kobe's strengths, while kobe's weaknesses, outweigh jordans weaknesses.

also, jordan didnt have the luxury of playing alongside a guy like shaq at the beginning of his career, like kobe. jordan pretty much had to learn everything on his own, the hard way. kobe actually had time to develop before getting his own team. kobe had far less excuses than jordan, who was given a team from the get go.

and you are a ing idiot to say kobe is on the verge of winning it when the playoffs havent even started.

[LakeShow]

i never said that michael didnt have his own issues earlier in his career. but his strengths outweigh kobe's strengths, while kobe's weaknesses, outweigh jordan's weaknesses.

also, jordan didnt have the luxury of playing alongside a guy like shaq at the beginning of his career, like kobe. jordan pretty much had to learn everything on his own, the hard way. kobe actually had time to develop before getting his own team. kobe had far less excuses than jordan, who was given a team from the get go.

and you are a ing idiot to say kobe is on the verge of winning it when the playoffs haven't even started.

Neither has any room for excuses. Different era, different time. The game has changed and you can say this and that about both of them. Went thru team mates before he got the right mix, just like Kobe. Jordan was labeled a ball hog in his early years, just like Kobe. They both played when their was hand checking. Jordan never had to deal with a zone like today but all that. Talent wise they are equal.

Either/or Jordan didn't get this far in his early years.

I see it as on the verge of winning a le barring injuries. But don't talk about les, that something you know absolutely nothing about, !