They had me worried for a second!

[DPG21920]

Allanon gets my respect.

I like Allanon, but keep in mind some of the things he said:

1) Lakers will win 70 + games this year
2) Oklahoma was a threat in the west
3) Memphis would make the playoffs or at least battle for the 8th seed
4) Same for the T-Wolves


That is just to name a few.

[DrHouse]

A 2-way center will always be able to impact the game in more ways than a perimeter player ever could. What Bynum can do on the defensive end Manu can never replicate. Manu can never alter shots, grab boards, and patrol the paint the way a 2-way center can. It's because of this that people say Bynum's overall impact is roughly equivalent to Ginobili.

It doesn't have so much to do with scoring points. Bynum brings balance to the Lakers and ensures there is very little dropoff between the bench and the starters. If anyone has watched the Lakers recently you'll notice a disturbing trend in which the bench is outright blowing 15 pts leads left and right. Bynum coming back either moves him or Lamar to the bench which instantly improves that problem.

Personally I don't believe Bynum's impact is equivalent to that of Manu's for the Spurs simply because the Lakers can replicate most of what Bynum brings with Gasol+Odom. The Spurs simply aren't that deep and have no one that really approaches Ginobili's level of talent.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

A 2-way center will always be able to impact the game in more ways than a perimeter player ever could. What Bynum can do on the defensive end Manu can never replicate. Manu can never alter shots, grab boards, and patrol the paint the way a 2-way center can. It's because of this that people say Bynum's overall impact is roughly equivalent to Ginobili.

It doesn't have so much to do with scoring points. Bynum brings balance to the Lakers and ensures there is very little dropoff between the bench and the starters. If anyone has watched the Lakers recently you'll notice a disturbing trend in which the bench is outright blowing 15 pts leads left and right. Bynum coming back either moves him or Lamar to the bench which instantly improves that problem.

Personally I don't believe Bynum's impact is equivalent to that of Manu's for the Spurs simply because the Lakers can replicate most of what Bynum brings with Gasol+Odom. The Spurs simply aren't that deep and have no one that really approaches Ginobili's level of talent.

The biggest difference in the Ginobili/Bynum argument is this:

Ginobili is a playmaker plain and simple. Nothing he does can really be replicated by anyone else on the team. He's got the best outside/inside combination of anyone on the team. Take away his 3's he can penetrate. Take away his inside shot and he will beat you from the outside. He's also an efficient rebounder for a guard and his passing ability is nothing to scoff at.

Bynum can be an effective shot blocker, but his rebounding is pretty inconsistent. I'm sure it'll improve with his age, but Bynum plays well in spurts and I think has motivation issues.

If anything, you can argue the Lakers are better offensively without him, seeing as how the team plays much more high tempo without him in the lineup.

Does Bynum help the Lakers? Absolutely, he's a shot blocker and he can seal up the paint. But I don't think it's even close to compare what Bynum brings to the table for the Lakers, compared to what Ginobili brings.

Without Bynum, the Lakers can get to the finals.

Without Ginobili, the Spurs aren't getting out of round 1.

If you trade Bynum for Ginobili, I think the Lakers improvement would be better than the Spurs improvement.

I'd put money on that.

[Stand]

A 2-way center will always be able to impact the game in more ways than a perimeter player ever could.

So is Bynum able to impact a game more than Kobe?

[Allanon]

The Lakers right now without Bynum are still better than Spurs with Manu, so what does this prove?

I'm not sure about this. I think right now the Spurs with Manu are better than the Lakers right now without Bynum. At best, it's pretty even.

Lakers last year were better than the Lakers at this minute. Lakers bench right now is very disappointing...worse than last year. Lakers can't say they even have a useable 6th man right now, it's that bad.

[xtremesteven33]

I'm not sure about this. I think right now the Spurs with Manu are better than the Lakers right now without Bynum.

Lakers last year were better than the Lakers at this minute. Lakers bench right now is very disappointing...worse than last year. Lakers can't say they even have a useable 6th man right now, it's that bad.

i agree.

Lakers without Bynum is a HUGE loss. He was on his way to be a great center in this league and to loss him POSSIBLY for the season will cost them the West IMHO.

Spurs are showing they have the Defense and the sufficient amount of offense to hang with anyone in the league right now.

[DPG21920]

I'm not sure about this. I think right now the Spurs with Manu are better than the Lakers right now without Bynum. At best, it's pretty even.

Lakers last year were better than the Lakers at this minute. Lakers bench right now is very disappointing...worse than last year. Lakers can't say they even have a useable 6th man right now, it's that bad.

In 10 games going into the playoffs (depending on health) we can re-evaluate, but as things currently stand (Duncan still hurt, Manu rusty), the Lakers are better.

[Allanon]

the Lakers are better.

If you say so

[DPG21920]

If you say so

?

[NewJerSpur]

Bynum has improved his offense on the block this season and has shown he can and will get after it on the boards. His rebounding might be somewhat affected by defenders swarming to Kobe when he attempts a shot but the post game is more from time put in during the offseason. Not to sure about the brains. I think the Lakers will try to build around him rather than trade him (unless Kobe still wants Jason Kidd), but some of those perimeter guys won't be so safe.

[Allanon]

?

I just don't think the Lakers are very good right now, but if you think the Lakers are better, I'm not gonna argue...

Lakers are still winning but their wins are against bad teams. All those blown leads are pretty much the bench's doing, including that loss to the Sixers.

[Spur-Addict]

This thread has gold written all over it.

[DPG21920]

I just don't think the Lakers are very good right now, but if you think the Lakers are better, I'm not gonna argue...

Lakers are still winning but their wins are against bad teams. All those blown leads are pretty much the bench's doing, including that loss to the Sixers.

Ya, but there is a difference between "not playing well" and "not as good". Lakers are just coasting. Kobe is just conserving energy and his team is playing like him, problem is they are not as good as Kobe so they cannot afford to slack.

The Lakers have passed every conceivable test this regular season, they have nothing left to prove in it.

[NewJerSpur]

Ya, but there is a difference between "not playing well" and "not as good". Lakers are just coasting. Kobe is just conserving energy and his team is playing like him, problem is they are not as good as Kobe so they cannot afford to slack.

The Lakers have passed every conceivable test this regular season, they have nothing left to prove in it.

He's right about their bench not being as good as it was last season.

[DPG21920]

He's right about their bench not being as good as it was last season.

Yes, but everyone else is better. Look at the standings.

[NewJerSpur]

Ariza and Odom are playing with as much consistency as I've ever seen from each of them and Kobe & Pao are still Kobe & Pao, but Farmar and Sasha have struggled a bit and Powell hasn't shown anything that will indicate he'll be a serious factor come crunch time. Not having Vlad and possibly Bynum come playoff time may expose them a bit.

[DPG21920]

Ariza and Odom are playing with as much consistency as I've ever seen from each of them and Kobe & Pao are still Kobe & Pao, but Farmar and Sasha have struggled a bit and Powell hasn't shown anything that will indicate he'll be a serious factor come crunch time. Not having Vlad and possibly Bynum come playoff time may expose them a bit.

I agree. I did not say they are a perfect team, but as things stand today, with Tim and Manu's health still up in the air and the rotations still whacky, you give the edge to the Lakers.

If both teams are fully healthy, you give the edge to the Lakers.

If The Spurs are fully healthy and the Lakers are without Bynum, then it becomes close.

[NewJerSpur]

I agree. I did not say they are a perfect team, but as things stand today, with Tim and Manu's health still up in the air and the rotations still whacky, you give the edge to the Lakers.

If both teams are fully healthy, you give the edge to the Lakers.

If The Spurs are fully healthy and the Lakers are without Bynum, then it becomes close.

I don't know about giving the edge to the Lakers right at this moment, but I can see the validity in the other points you made.

[DrHouse]

The Lakers starting 5 today is much better than it was last season at this point. Defensively they've gotten better, no more Radmanovich getting burned on the perimeter, and the overall chemistry has improved now that they've had a year to gel together.

It's unlikely that if Bynum comes back, which I don't think he will, that he will move to the starting lineup. That's fine with me. Let him play with the 2nd unit and hopefully it will help the Lakers stop blowing 10-15 pt leads left and right.

If that happens, no team in the league will be able to keep up with the Lakers for a full 48 minutes. They will be able to just keep coming at teams in waves and waves. What Pop said earlier in the season is exactly right, there is almost no margin for error when playing against the Lakers at full strength. You have to play perfectly to beat them, and only one team in this league is even capable of that kind of mental focus. Unfortunately they do not appear to have the talent to match that this season.

[NewJerSpur]

The Lakers starting 5 today is much better than it was last season at this point. Defensively they've gotten better, no more Radmanovich getting burned on the perimeter, and the overall chemistry has improved now that they've had a year to gel together.

It's unlikely that if Bynum comes back, which I don't think he will, that he will move to the starting lineup. That's fine with me. Let him play with the 2nd unit and hopefully it will help the Lakers stop blowing 10-15 pt leads left and right.

If that happens, no team in the league will be able to keep up with the Lakers for a full 48 minutes. They will be able to just keep coming at teams in waves and waves. What Pop said earlier in the season is exactly right, there is almost no margin for error when playing against the Lakers at full strength. You have to play perfectly to beat them, and only one team in this league is even capable of that kind of mental focus. Unfortunately they do not appear to have the talent to match that this season.

So, you don't think the team will miss Vlad's spot up shooting, especially from beyond the arc in a second unit that appears to be suspect on offense at times?

[DPG21920]

So, you don't think the team will miss Vlad's spot up shooting, especially from beyond the arc in a second unit that appears to be suspect on offense at times?

What do you think the Lakers would average against the Spurs in a series points wise?

[NewJerSpur]

I'm not a projection man myself, but if I was it would still be tough to say. Depends on who's playing and what adjustments are made from game to game. I guess at the very least you would think it would be somewhere in the mid 90s.

[DPG21920]

I'm not a projection man myself, but if I was it would still be tough to say. Depends on who's playing and what adjustments are made from game to game. I guess at the very least you would think it would be somewhere in the mid 90s.

If the Spurs can hold the Lakers to the mid 90's they would have a great shot. Do not know if that is possible however.

[NewJerSpur]

Agreed. Have to see if Bynum plays and what types of defenses they throw at Kobe. I'll still be waiting to see if the other shoe drops with Odom and he returns to the undisciplined player that we've grown accustomed to seeing during so many postseason appearances.

[phyzik]

I'd prefer for Bynum to be back, and starting, for the Spurs matchup if it comes to be in the playoffs. I think, with a healthy Ginobili, and Lamar Odom NOT starting, we have a better chance. Odom always seems to go off on the Spurs.

That being said, Bynum does change the dynamics of the Lakers quite a bit, but not nearly as much as having Manu back with the Spurs. Anyone who thinks otherwise, despide their (Manu and Bynum) respective positions in the game, is kidding themselves.