Reading your original post alone as is, does not even provide convincing evidence that there is more good than bad out of this loss.
Watching the game, Duncan was being outhustled and was much slower than normal way before he got gassed. So he got tired. Hey, guys, Duncan got tired in the fourth, when he's been relatively rested the past week. Alot of good in that, right?
And it is ridiculous for you to try to convince people on this forum that Pop's strategies the past few weeks, leading into and including this game, shows more promise than disappointment.
It does not matter if we got blown out at NO last year, or every year for the last decade. We were outhustled by an undermanned team, and our anchor is nowhere near 100%. Just those facts already outweigh any positive you saw tonight, and any silver lining you grasp at about it being the first time the big three were together, us supposed to lose this game based on last year, and duncan and ginobili being tired.
And then we have RMJ scoring zero points, being completely shut out, and not having a groove, at all, against a possible first round playoff opponent.
Udoka getting mad minutes, and scoring less points than Bowen.
Lots of positives
Look, we all know the drill. The Spurs are not supposed to be fully clicking all things considered. When you look at it from that point of view, then the Spurs played well considering all of those variables.
What most of us are saying is that even knowing this going into the game, the Spurs were still favorites to win against this injured Hornets team. They still should have won.
Duncans knees yes, the three point shooting yes. The sagging defense with wide open missed threes yes. So, yeah, I agree with you.
Woha, hold on a second there. Who allowed you to come up with a reasonable take? You're supposed to be melting down and cutting your wrists right now. Please knock it off.
Bonner should not be seeing significant court time against the Hornets. David West just abused him down low. Gooden is a better matchup because of his ability to play physical on the block against West.
West is a bit of a smaller guy, so the Spurs could probably get away with playing Ime on him, if only Ime could hit an open shot tonight.
The last foul was not the reason the Spurs lost. However, like the Fisher no call the blatantly terrible officiating ruined a potentially good ending. Rewarding a guy for trying to jack up a half court shot is ridiculous. Lebron tried that once jacking up a three when the other team was in obvious foul mode and tried to foul off the ball.
He didn't get the call, but after tonight's precendence he might be able to get it next time. Or maybe that officating crew realized something that tonight's crew didn't, that you can't reward a guy for jacking up a ridiculous shot because he knows a foul is coming.
i thought acquiring gooden was meant to solve the reb problems, gino back was meant to solve the bench scoring....unfortunately fail...
I think once Duncan starts playing more minutes you won't see him run out of gas so quickly. Ginobili as well.
All things considered, Ginobili's play is the one real positive we can get from tonight's loss.
And i hate on Ginobili with the best of them.
See this is what Timvp is talking about. It is to early to grade this. It is not fair. And considering the cir stances they did well. Gooden is still learning the system and his role. He has to get used to a set rotation.
Gino just returned from injury, has to get in rhythm and in shape. I agree with how it is tough and there were some positives when you look at it from Timvp's perspective.
Spurs still should of had enough to win despite the bench and the rust and the rotation.
You still have time to jump to the Lakers bandwagon if you're so disgusted with this team. I think Manu will come around and have less faith in Gooden coming fully around, but he'll be helpful in some situations.
Gooden can't help the team if he's not playing. Playing Bonner over Gooden was ridiculous. Bonner couldn't box out to save his life and West abused him. Gooden has the muscle to clean that up.
Did you watch the game? West absolutely abused Gooden.
So Duncan and Ginobili looking to be on the road to recovery isn't evidence of good outweighing bad? Would you rather Duncan and Ginobili look worse and the Spurs get one last steal at the end to win the game?
Don't really agree with outhustled. I'd agree with either hurt or tired before outhustled.
Link to anywhere I said anything about Pop's strategies the last few weeks showing more promise than disappointment? I've been riding Pop's azz for the last month.
Did you watch Duncan when he first came back? He was getting pushed around by everyone, couldn't hold his position, couldn't score in isolation situations and wasn't playing defense. He sucked. Comparatively speaking, he looked better tonight. Still a long way to go before he's anywhere good enough to lead the Spurs to a championship but just a week ago it looked like Duncan's chances of being effective in the playoffs were dwindling. Those chances may still be not very good but Duncan certainly is progressing ... which in itself gives me hope.
Is he going to be good enough by the playoffs? I'd say it's about 50/50 right now. Ask me that last week and I would have said it's 75/25 that he wasn't going to be ready. So yeah, that positive in itself (and that's not even counting the return of Manu within the last week) outshines a loss at New Orleans.
Not as much as he abused Bonner. Not only was he scoring on Matt at will, he actually got him twice in foul trouble. Now, I agree that Gooden is not ready to handle more minutes defensively late in the game, so I'm not really upset he didn't see more floor time tonight. But I think Drew and Kurt (even though the latter had an awful game) are the best we have to matchup with him.
Look, I agree with what you just said and implied in this post, pretty much to a T. Except for one thing. Duncan isn't playing bad worse, worst, then okay, better, best, since his diagnosis of this disease. IMO, it's been pretty random, and overall, he has been sub-par. It's not a tweaked ligament where it slowly heals and he's going to get better, and I can see this. He did play like when he came back first game, but he did play better here and there before this game. Especially right out the gates. He was not moving his normal self at all when this game started, and even when he was scoring, was still getting burnt on the D end.
That is what I mean when I say it makes no sense to rest Duncan just for the sake of resting Duncan. It seems to me like he could have had a chance to play quite well in the game he sat out. It's possible he could have been fine. But in a game when he's blatantly hurting, which IMO was tonight, rest his ass. Save him.
I agree the Spurs did not play with enough energy or hustle. The Hornets out worked the Spurs and you can attribute that to whatever you want. But even Pop said it during his timeout.
That is why I am bothered. That is why I feel the Spurs should have won.
Yes, I'm aware that we're losing these games by only a couple of points. And that our guys are not totally healthy. And that the refs have been questionable, and Pop's still working out a rotation, and the League wants the Finals to be LeBron v. Kobe, and Bowen's been glued to the bench, and ... any more excuses? I'm sure I missed a few.
Bottom line is, the Spurs, if they were truly championship contenders, would be adapting and overcoming. And beating the good teams and pounding the crappy ones. But they're not. At some point, the answer can only be, they're not that good this year.
I saw West hitting shots that were either fadeaways (you know the ones where he kicks out his leg Reggie Miller style) or hitting contested shots.
I saw West absolutely torching Bonner on offense and on the boards. Bonner couldn't do a thing about it whereas Gooden has the muscle to push West off the block.
Plus, West is a hot head and playing him physical gets him off his game and into foul trouble.
I agree, BUT right now if the offense goes somewhere else while Drew is on the floor, we basically have no help defense or rotation under the basket. And you can't give up easy points late in games. That said, if the Hornets keep going to West because Bonner is on him, then you can play Drew a couple posessions to cool down West a bit.
Gooden is also more athletic, and I think he would be a decent matchup for stretches against guys like Dirk/West.
Thank you timvp for a recap
Thomas is too slow to be following athletic bigs. He's a banger. Bonner is too weak to guard anyone in the block. He can chase perimeter guys on the floor (in theory). Gooden can guard those tweeners like Dirk and West. Guys who will use their speed on Thomas and muscle on Bonner.
The only way Gooden will get the offense and defensive assignments down in a hurry is to put him in the fire and let him learn alongside Duncan. Put Bowen in as well, and you have two of the best defenders in the league to learn on the fly from.
I'm not saying start Gooden full time (if at all). But in a game like this, he needs to be on the floor more than Bonner. The upside with Gooden is much higher than with Bonner, especially considering the physical nature of the playoffs.
Not to mention we don't know how Bonner will react in the postseason seeing as how this will be his first real playoff experience. Gooden on the other hand has been to the Finals. Having his and Thomas' experience backing up Tim can be an asset.
Mason and Udoka sucked huge amounts of .
Even with the horrible 2nd half, if 2 more of those open 3's were hit, we woulda came out with a W.
Thomas will be fine in the playoffs because the tempo slows down a lot, and the game gets more physical. And now, we can't throw Drew into the fire. It takes time and practice to get everybody on the same tune defensively, and once you put a guy that's out of sync it gets too easy to break it down. Drew is going to need at least one full training camp to really understand what we're doing defensively. That's why I said I thought he won't fully come around this season. He will help us in spot moments and against specific matchups and situations, but I doubt we'll get much more than that off of him.
I don't expect Gooden to be nearly as good as he can be this season. However, at the moment he's a better asset than Bonner. Bonner has been hitting his threes all season, but when the shot isn't falling he's useless.
Gooden can score in the block, hit the little mid range jumper and grab some rebounds. The Spurs have been able to cover defensive for liabilities. Granted that covering for a big is different than covering for a wing player, but I think Pop can adjust.
My comments on Bonner aren't becaue of one game, but rather, were reinforced by this game. , if the Spurs want to create a mismatch, they should have tried Bonner at the 3 for stretches at a time earlier in the season.
It may or may have not worked, but it would have been worth a look. It's too late to do it now.
Just to be clear, I'm not down on Bonner totally. But Bonner isn't quite as effective in a slow down slugfest.
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