Spurs Talent Scounts/ Front Office= Overrated

[vander]

Karl Malone - 0 les
Kevin Garnett - 1 le
Charles Barkley- 0 les
Patrick Ewing- 0 les

You fail.

wow, you had to reach back a ways just to find 4 Front offices that did less with their great talent

the 3 problems with your arguement are
1. those guys are all chockers who pale in comparison to TD
2. they all would have les if it weren't for a certain MJ
3. you are trying to say that the Spurs FO is great just because they outperformed 4 other "great talent" teams in the last 20 years?

that was quite the pathetic attemt

[JWest596]

see if you can follow along...

Tim Duncan Is the Greatest PF of all time
good enough that all he needs to win les is an average Front Office to put competent talent around him; but also good enough that with an ambitious and talented Front Office putting better than average talent around him, he could have 6 or 7 les by now.

But you, for some reason believe the latter to be untrue, an impossibility even, you seem believe Duncan isn't that good because he has been surrounded with the best possible talent. Or maybe you believe that there is no such thing as great Front Office management, that it's mostly a crapshoot, and as long as the FO isn't sabotaging the team, it's doing the best job possible

See if you can construct a competent non rambling argument devoid of bull . YOU CLAIMED in a singular stand alone sentence that Duncan's 4 les were "far from exceptional". I disagree. Kobe Bryant doesn't have 4 rings and yes I think the FO has done a great job in drafting because the Spurs will always be a fiscal team. and that's not going to change. You have to do with what you've got. Name a current team that has done better?

I'll wait.

Now you're putting words in my mouth implying some convoluted delusional argument on what I believe. You use homer "Woulda, coulda shoulda" nonsense that if the FO had acquired some sort of better players they should have won more les. Well if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

When you figure what you are trying to say , let me know because obviously you gotten off your meds.

Get some more posters to clarify what you mean obviously they can understand your incoherence better than me since you're incapable.

[rascal]

see if you can follow along...

Tim Duncan Is the Greatest PF of all time
good enough that all he needs to win les is an average Front Office to put competent talent around him; but also good enough that with an ambitious and talented Front Office putting better than average talent around him, he could have 6 or 7 les by now.

But you, for some reason believe the latter to be untrue, an impossibility even, you seem believe Duncan isn't that good because he has been surrounded with the best possible talent. Or maybe you believe that there is no such thing as great Front Office management, that it's mostly a crapshoot, and as long as the FO isn't sabotaging the team, it's doing the best job possible

Agree. The front office has rode on Duncan's greatness. There is nothing more than just getting lucky in the lottery that brought the spurs their les.

[JWest596]

Agree. The front office has rode on Duncan's greatness.

There is nothing more than just getting lucky in the lottery that brought the spurs their les.

And so did Chicago with Jordan, Boston with Bird, Los Angeles with Bryant and on and on. Would the Spurs have gotten better talent without busting the bank? I have no doubt. But that's not what the Spurs can do and they won't. This team will be fiscally responsible or it will probably cease to exist in San Antonio. This team will disintegrate aka move or get an out of town owner[s] with deeper pockets and all the dangers that can come from it.
The serious times that the Spurs talked about moving or being sold were due from a poor venue/poor ticket sales in the post Ice-pre DROB times and they were real. This team has been incredibly successful at maximizing using what they have. The most with the least and NO ONE has done better.

Name a team that has done better than yet the Spurs have had the fewest lottery teams of all teams in the NBA and that includes the pre-Pop years. His and RC's management has been even better. So the talk that the FO is over rated or could have done better is in my mindis sheer utter nonsense. This is the what being a small market team is all about. We aren't big media Boston, LA, NY, Chicago and we don't have "billionare owners" like Cuban and Paul Allen who are still bridesmaids yet spend millions more than SA.

Don't you remember the real concerns and future signings/plans jeopardized and the luxury tax implications when the Spurs gave Malik Rose that enormous contract? You could hear the sigh of relief from coast to coast when they unloaded it. It allowed to the Spurs to retain many of the present superb players who contribute today. And Manu and Tony could be making a of a lot more money elsewhere. Nor do I discount the Ice's or the DROB's or the TD's at all in anyway whatsoever as this team has been extremely fortunate and blessed goes without question. But I doubt the would have stayed under a terrible management especially in the age of NBA free agency. But exceptional talent and a endless deep pocket owner[s], big media market towns with the ability to buy anything is not a guarantee in the slightest.

And if great players were the only requirement there would be a of a lot of rings among teams in the NBA other than Chicago, LA or San Antonio in the last decade or so. It's no accident that NBA owners are emulating the Spurs system or acquiring our personnel.

No team or front office has done more with less, won more championships than San Antonio. And you can say that if we had acquired _____ or better players and exceeded the teams fiscal limitations, there might not even be a Spurs team in SA now.

I repeat an emphatic "Overrated"?...my ass they are. They've made mistakes but all teams have and fewer still have done better.
Wait until RC and Pop are gone and see what a bad FO is all about. Then you'll have a real reason to complain.

[vander]

And so did Chicago with Jordan, Boston with Bird, Los Angeles with Bryant and on and on. Would the Spurs have gotten better talent without busting the bank? I have no doubt. But that's not what the Spurs can do and they won't. This team will be fiscally responsible or it will probably cease to exist in San Antonio. This team will disintegrate aka move or get an out of town owner[s] with deeper pockets and all the dangers that can come from it.
The serious times that the Spurs talked about moving or being sold were due from a poor venue/poor ticket sales in the post Ice-pre DROB times and they were real. This team has been incredibly successful at maximizing using what they have. The most with the least and NO ONE has done better.

Name a team that has done better than yet the Spurs have had the fewest lottery teams of all teams in the NBA and that includes the pre-Pop years. His and RC's management has been even better. So the talk that the FO is over rated or could have done better is in my mindis sheer utter nonsense. This is the what being a small market team is all about. We aren't big media Boston, LA, NY, Chicago and we don't have "billionare owners" like Cuban and Paul Allen who are still bridesmaids yet spend millions more than SA.

Don't you remember the real concerns and future signings/plans jeopardized and the luxury tax implications when the Spurs gave Malik Rose that enormous contract? You could hear the sigh of relief from coast to coast when they unloaded it. It allowed to the Spurs to retain many of the present superb players who contribute today. And Manu and Tony could be making a of a lot more money elsewhere. Nor do I discount the Ice's or the DROB's or the TD's at all in anyway whatsoever as this team has been extremely fortunate and blessed goes without question. But I doubt the would have stayed under a terrible management especially in the age of NBA free agency. But exceptional talent and a endless deep pocket owner[s], big media market towns with the ability to buy anything is not a guarantee in the slightest.

And if great players were the only requirement there would be a of a lot of rings among teams in the NBA other than Chicago, LA or San Antonio in the last decade or so. It's no accident that NBA owners are emulating the Spurs system or acquiring our personnel.

No team or front office has done more with less, won more championships than San Antonio. And you can say that if we had acquired _____ or better players and exceeded the teams fiscal limitations, there might not even be a Spurs team in SA now.

I repeat an emphatic "Overrated"?...my ass they are. They've made mistakes but all teams have and fewer still have done better.
Wait until Duncan is gone and see what this FO is really made of

fixed

but the main reason we will never see eye to eye is because you keep comparing our Front Office to the average incompetent Front Office that prevails in this league, While I compare them against the potential the Spurs once had.
you seem to think that 4 les in 12 years is the peak of performance, that no FO could possibly accomplish more, that 5 or 6 or 7 is an impossibility. I dissagree, 6 was well within our reach, even 7 a possibility

[koriwhat]

I've been saying this for years. The Spurs' FO can't draft at all. They haven't made a decent draft-day decision since they picked Tony Parker. George Hill? Are you effing kidding me? If they wanted a backup PG they should have taken Mario Chalmers.

hahaha... I've been saying this for years. Portlands' FO can't draft at all. They haven't made a decent draft-day decision since they picked Sam Bowie(haha). Greg Oden? Are you effing kidding me? If they wanted a real star who has seen more then a month on the nba hardwood then they should have taken Kevin Durant.

[JWest596]

fixed

but the main reason we will never see eye to eye is because you keep comparing our Front Office to the average incompetent Front Office that prevails in this league, While I compare them against the potential the Spurs once had.
you seem to think that , that no FO could possibly accomplish more, that 5 or 6 or 7 is an impossibility. I disagree, 6 was well within our reach, even 7 a possibility.

Again, where did I even make such assertions? I certainly never said "4 les in 12 years is the peak of performance that no FO could possibly accomplish more, that 5 or 6 or 7 is an impossibility." yet no single NBA team has done better than the Spurs in the last ten years. You claimed it was " not exceptiona"l. It's not hard to grasp..

That's why your argument is a specious because fantasy and hindsight while debatable, this simple fact remains that no NBA team has done better of late and that Tim Duncan's 4 les are exceptional (Your claim it's not, not mine.) but feel free to tell me more of what I didn't say. Because in my world when you do it better than anybody else, I regard that very highly. Funny me.

But I'm glad you finally understand that "wishes and buts" are largely irrelevant. As to "fixed"? what does that even mean, that you finally get it?

Again I repeat that no team has done better yet the claim that our FO is "overrated" and undeserving of superlative recognition because we could have achieved more? While it's thread fodder, it is worth little. Does Tony Parker wish Eva Langoria was more beautiful and famous? I care very little.

The fact remains is that it is exceptional in the current state of the NBA and rare and against bigger and better financed big market deep pocket teams. And if you're not going to retract your statement that Tim's 4 les aren't exceptional, it's not me that needs to be fixed. That was and still is the original disagreement and why we will not see eye to eye. Jeez Louise.

[duncan2k5]

I would agree they are over rated.
-While hitting home runs with Manu and TP they let Jax walk because they refused to pay him the 5mil pr year he wanted instead offering him less than 3 a year. Hedo went to Orl with the mid level 5.1mil pr year. Antonio D who is a nice player and a combo guy that would have helped us for years and fixed the backup pg problem years ago we let him walk refusing to pay 4mil pr.

-The draft issues are more disturbing to me. They give away first round picks like candy. They draft Hill, who has been up and down this year and has looked like a bust compaired to Chalmers and Jordan both of those guys could have helped us more this year. Draft Splitter knowing he may never come over, he pulled 3 prior drafts that made other teams pass on him which is why he fell to us.

-You have a need for a defensive, long, athletic 3, you draft one then send him to Eruo while you try to develop a 6-5 Rookie SF that cant shoot.

Right now I would give the FO a C+ for the last 5 years.

exactly!!!

[JWest596]

I would agree they are over rated.
-While hitting home runs with Manu and TP they let Jax walk because they refused to pay him the 5mil pr year he wanted instead offering him less than 3 a year.

Nor did anyone else pay or offer more to SJAX so he went to Atlanta for a one year million dollar contract.

They're "overrated" but they hit homeruns?

And While I like SJAX as a player, This team has always been fiscally conservative because it has to, not because it doesn't want to. It's why Scola is not here. It's whether they have the money or the desire to commit long term and endanger future opportunities and long term viability. Damn the FO for their long term foresight.
I guess that's why the Spurs have had the fewest lottery teams than any other NBA team. Selfish continual winning .500+ bas s that they are.

Winning for just today and throwing the dice has been so successful in the past and for so many teams. Let's count the Dallas. Phoenix and Knick's rings. I'm blinded by their reflections off their Larry O Brien trophies.

Agree to disagree.

[rascal]

Oh I see, yes your disagreement is far more powerful the second time you voice it, I wonder what would happen if you disagreed a third time

I like Vander's logic.

[JWest596]

I like Vander's logic.

Get a room.

[Lars]

Thank you for Scola.

[rascal]

The front office has relied on luck. Sometimes its better to be lucky then good.
The luck of getting two franchise centers Robinson and Duncan to play together for a span of 6 years ( that led to the first two les). The luck of not having any dominate franchise like the Bulls of the MJ era or the Celtics of the 60's or the Lakers of the Magic era to contend with.

I look at the players the spurs have gotten through the draft, trades or free agency and it is a weak list compared to what some other teams have done.

Can this front office turn around a down franchise without getting a top franchise big man luckily in the draft? I doubt it. Nothing indicates that they can by their player moves.


That window of no dominate team to contend with in the league is now closing with the lakers stepping into that dominate more talented team that has and will more often beat the spurs.

[rascal]

Get a room.

Get some logic and come back.

[urunobili]

I've been saying this for years. The Spurs' FO can't draft at all. They haven't made a decent draft-day decision since they picked Tony Parker. George Hill? Are you effing kidding me? If they wanted a backup PG they should have taken Mario Chalmers.

Spurs have insider info at Kansas... there is a reason why Chalmers is a second round pick... remember the pot issue?

[JWest596]

Get some logic and come back.

Refute it or try to grasp it. Or just make up stuff unrelated, obfuscate and/or ignore it.

The logic comes as a conclusion, not as a condition.

[ducks]

Scola and Stephen jackson are the only big ups know of. Beno sucks ass and hedo thrives cause there is no pressure in the regular season in Orlando.

spurs offered more money to sj then any team
sj also said he could only play for pop
it would have been sj OR manu
manu would be in denver if sj is on spurs

[ducks]

The front office has relied on luck. Sometimes its better to be lucky then good.
The luck of getting two franchise centers Robinson and Duncan to play together for a span of 6 years ( that led to the first two les). The luck of not having any dominate franchise like the Bulls of the MJ era or the Celtics of the 60's or the Lakers of the Magic era to contend with.

I look at the players the spurs have gotten through the draft, trades or free agency and it is a weak list compared to what some other teams have done.

Can this front office turn around a down franchise without getting a top franchise big man luckily in the draft? I doubt it. Nothing indicates that they can by their player moves.


That window of no dominate team to contend with in the league is now closing with the lakers stepping into that dominate more talented team that has and will more often beat the spurs.

what teams have done better then spurs

there are not very many gasol for k brown deals out there


the hedo deal was a great deal at the time

[SPURS vs NBA media]

Why do we get all these decent players, then let them go? Pops was our latest that we had, now he is in toronto ripping it up...we had barbosa, scola, Hedo, Beno, the list goes on...just venting...

Beno

[ducks]

is SJ>MANU?

[vander]

is sj>manu?

2009-