Initial Reaction: Spurs vs. Thunder Mar. 31

[ElNono]

What's Vaughn doing out there also? Here's a guy that was DNP-CD up until a week ago. We're two weeks away from the playoffs, and NOW your resuscitate this corpse?

[timvp]

Reasons I believe Pop is playing super possum right before the Playoffs:

1. NO BOWEN? Are you serious? With Fin left to dry out there while Durant lights him up? Just doesnt sound or look right...

2. Vaughn over Hill when Hill has been playing good all year whether at backup pg or even little defensive spurts.

3. Bonner >Thomas? Really? When Bonner wasnt doing so hot out there at all.

All these things lead me to believe Pop knows what he's doing and is really hiding his deck this time around...

I wish that was the case but its not. You don't play possum with eight games to go in the regular season. Hill needs as much experience as possible to succeed in the playoffs. Bowen needs to actually play to get into good enough shape to be a defensive stopper.

This is not CIA Pop. This is WTF Pop.

[peskypesky]

What's Vaughn doing out there also? Here's a guy that was DNP-CD up until a week ago. We're two weeks away from the playoffs, and NOW your resuscitate this corpse?

very good point. Vaughn was indeed DNP-CD for most of the season. so wtf, Pop?

[timaios]

No they didnt

[crc21209]

I wish that was the case but its not. You don't play possum with eight games to go in the regular season. Hill needs as much experience as possible to succeed in the playoffs. Bowen needs to actually play to get into good enough shape to be a defensive stopper.

This is not CIA Pop. This is WTF Pop.

timvp you and your wife gotta track his ass down or talk to the local media people and convince him that he is being a dumb if all this is really real and not just CIA.

[HarlemHeat37]

that's what is so ed up though timvp..

JUST LAST YEAR..Bowen was an all-NBA defender..Pop even trusted him to guard the best POINT GUARD in the NBA in the Hornets series..less than a year later, and the guy can't even get off the bench? where's the logic? Bowen has shown MANY flashes of his great D this year..

it just doesn't make any sense at all..it's not an injury, because he played vs. the Rockets and dominated Artest recently..like you said, he loves veterans, so that can't be the reason..

I'm still believing he'll play in the playoffs, but only because it would go against all logic if he didn't..it just doesn't make any sense..

not only is Bowen still a great defender, but he brings veteran tricks, and RESPECT FROM THE REFS with him..he does something that nobody else on our team does..the worst part is that he's behind Ime ing Udoka in the rotation..

so I just can't believe he won't play..it just doesn't make any sense to me..

[timvp]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.

[HarlemHeat37]

timvp..if you showed your rotation to Pop, he'd probably shoot you 5 times and spit in your face, for not including the name "Finley"..

[Joe Schmoogins]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.

I noticed you changed this lineup from the one you listed in the Rotations thread the other day. Have you already given up on Gooden?

[crc21209]

The rotation should be pretty damn easy:

C Thomas - 30
PF Duncan - 36
SF Bowen - 30
SG Ginobili - 30
PG Parker - 38

PF Bonner - 30
SG Mason - 32
PG Hill - 16

If Pop wants to start the Big Three, then put two defenders in there because the Big Three should be able to carry the offensive load. Then bring shooting and energy off the bench.

If Pop went with that lineup, I'd be pretty damn confident in the Spurs right now.

I totally agree. If Pop didnt wanna start Manu and bring him off the bench instead then start TP, Mason, Bowen, TD, and Thomas. But I think that Bowen should be starting in place of Fin and Thomas in place of Bonner if I had it my way. We can only hope right now...

[timvp]

that's what is so ed up though timvp..

JUST LAST YEAR..Bowen was an all-NBA defender..Pop even trusted him to guard the best POINT GUARD in the NBA in the Hornets series..less than a year later, and the guy can't even get off the bench? where's the logic? Bowen has shown MANY flashes of his great D this year..

it just doesn't make any sense at all..it's not an injury, because he played vs. the Rockets and dominated Artest recently..like you said, he loves veterans, so that can't be the reason..

I'm still believing he'll play in the playoffs, but only because it would go against all logic if he didn't..it just doesn't make any sense..

not only is Bowen still a great defender, but he brings veteran tricks, and RESPECT FROM THE REFS with him..he does something that nobody else on our team does..the worst part is that he's behind Ime ing Udoka in the rotation..

so I just can't believe he won't play..it just doesn't make any sense to me..

The only thing I can think of that can compare is the way Pop turned on Malik Rose. One day Pop loved Malik ... then seemingly overnight Pop closed the door on his Spurs career.

But in that case, at least it was contract related and Pop thought Malik was trying too hard to prove he was worth his contract. What could he see in Bowen that would cause him to totally give up on him? It's not like Udoka's such a great offensive player that he's worth putting on the court ahead of Bowen for the offensive gains.

I don't know. It's just bizarre.

[HarlemHeat37]

the sad thing is that our offense is virtually the same as last year, but our D is worse..so much for the reasoning behind benching Bowen being for "more offense"..

[timvp]

I noticed you changed this lineup from the one you listed in the Rotations thread the other day. Have you already given up on Gooden?

I didn't really give up on Gooden but this team just doesn't have the slack to be trying to integrate new parts to it on top of trying to get cohesive. This is now more of a crisis mode rotation. Buckle down the hatches and try to win with what you know you got. Gooden just seems like a luxury the Spurs can't afford.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Spurs still have time to not only gel but also work Gooden in ....... but I honestly don't see it.

[tp2021]

San Antonio Spurs....2010 NBA Champs or bust

[crc21209]

I didn't really give up on Gooden but this team just doesn't have the slack to be trying to integrate new parts to it on top of trying to get cohesive. This is now more of a crisis mode rotation. Buckle down the hatches and try to win with what you know you got. Gooden just seems like a luxury the Spurs can't afford.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Spurs still have time to not only gel but also work Gooden in ....... but I honestly don't see it.

I guess we can go with Thomas and Bonner along with TD as the other bigs with Gooden and Oberto getting spot minutes?

[Yuixafun]

it's because Tony is not a true PG. he's a scorer. he's not a distributor.

i often think that Manu should play PG and Tony SG. Manu is a better passer.

Manu a better passer... he might make some dazzling ones, but I see too many stupid ones that are predictable and telegraphed, that are easily picked off.

And Tony.. tony tony tony... I think sometimes subconciously he turns in poor games to prove how valuable he is.

He needs to play with the mentality that Tim and Manu are both out all the time. I'm not sure, but there's something there with pride and recognition and it's manifesting itself in subtle ways.

[Joe Schmoogins]

I didn't really give up on Gooden but this team just doesn't have the slack to be trying to integrate new parts to it on top of trying to get cohesive. This is now more of a crisis mode rotation. Buckle down the hatches and try to win with what you know you got. Gooden just seems like a luxury the Spurs can't afford.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Spurs still have time to not only gel but also work Gooden in ....... but I honestly don't see it.

That sounds about right.

As far as Bowen is concerned... I just don't buy it that Pop has given up on him. It makes no sense. My overly optimistic side is hoping that Pop is giving him as much rest as possible to keep him extremely fresh for an extended playoff run. Pop ain't a fool, he knows what it takes to win, I really think this is the time of year when we just need to sit back and let him do his thing as frustrating as that is.

I honestly believe that both Hill and Bowen will be in the rotation come playoff time. Watching Vaughn out there tonight was a nice reminder of why they made it a priority to draft Hill... surely Pop took notice. Right?

[timtonymanu]

im reading through all these posts and I'm really scared for this team come playoff time. I really wanna see Kurt Thomas get that ring but it doesn't look like it cause Pop is so arrogant.

Hill has definitely been kicked out of the rotation when he kept this season compe ive when Parker was out.
It looks like Mason is going back to the Mason he was in Washington. Thanks to Pop!
Bowen isnt getting any minutes and he's the best defender on our team.

Udoka and Finley are getting way overplayed. I think Pop has a crush on inconsistent shooters who's defense is poor. With the way Pop is coaching, I really don't see the Spurs winning this year and they even have a great roster. Pop just can't decide how to use it and it's sad really.

[SA210]

This is like watching the Spurs in '01-'02 when Bowen was injured, except he's ing right there suited up and ready to play. I've always thought the championship window would slam shut when Bruce isn't able to play anymore, and this team is doing nothing to convince me otherwise right now.

This is so damn true, I swear. I have always thought exactly the same frickin' thing.



Can someone PLEASE make Pop read this forum!! ??

[word]

After the loss against the Hornets, I thought the Spurs deserved a break. Tough place to play, Big Three just reunited and going up against a desperate team. Tonight? This loss against the Thunder has to be considered the worst regular season loss of the season.

The Thunder have some nice pieces for the future but there are plenty of reasons why they were 0-19 on the road against teams above .500 heading into the game. Oklahoma City had no business being in the contest against a Spurs team that should have been focused following the loss against the Hornets and the previous loss against this same Thunder squad the last time these two teams battled. Instead, the Spurs laid an egg. When the embarrassment of a performance finally ended, the Spurs had lost 96-95.

I'm extremely disappointed in how the Spurs played. They don't look anything close to a championship team right now. There are available excuses but there's no combination of excuses that will explain away this loss. It was a pathetic performance by a team that seems to have lost its way. Combine that with injury woes and it's difficult to imagine this team putting the pieces together in time to win a NBA championship.

-If you just look at Tim Duncan's line, one would assume he had a solid ballgame. But the truth doesn't match the numbers. The truth is that the Thunder sent a minimum amount of help his way. All they did was have a few players reach after Duncan put the ball on the ground. In fact, Oklahoma City got so brazen at one point that they put Jeff Green on him. The lack of respect for Duncan's skills paid off because Duncan wasn't able to dominate single coverage. Obviously his struggles are health related but the time for excuses is over. Either Duncan becomes Duncan again or else the season is over.

-Manu Ginobili is another player whose stats look better than his actual output. Defensively, he had a few moments here and there but it was mostly a bad performance on that end of the court. On offense, Ginobili scored well enough but he wasn't making his typical smart basketball plays. He made a number of iffy decisions, including about three bad decisions in the last ten seconds of the game. It's not that surprising to learn that Ginobili finished with the worst plus/minus on the team for the second straight game. The silver lining is that his health and conditioning seem to be trending in a positive direction.

-After carrying the Spurs for a while, Tony Parker acted like it was his turn to rest. He had absolutely no energy for much of this game and was disappointing on both ends of the court. In a key stretch in the fourth quarter, Parker's play resulted in three consecutive turnovers. Instead of gearing up for the playoffs, Parker played one of his worst games of the season. No one is going to care about a few good games in March if Parker sputters to the finish line.

-I really just can't fathom what Pop sees in Finley. Pop seriously is treating Finley as if Finley is a part of the Big Four. And now that Pop is setting his rotation, that has resulted in Finely becoming an even bigger part of the team. I apologize to any of Finley's family members who may be reading this but Finley is not good enough anymore to be a key part of a championship team. He's just not. Durant slaughtered him repeatedly. It got sickening to watch after a while. It was even more sickening that Pop never made much of a move to fix the situation. In Pop's eyes, Finley must be some sort of cross between Bruce Bowen and Michael Jordan. Otherwise, I just can't explain the love affair any longer.

-It's difficult to hate on Matt Bonner too much after the effort he gave. He was the one player who kept fighting to try to win the game. But the results just weren't there. Even though he crashed the boards repeatedly, he only totaled one rebound. His three-point stroke isn't nearly as automatic as it was before he got threatened by the signing of Drew Gooden. Bonner played hard, defended pretty well but he wasn't really helping the cause too much.

-The yanking of Roger Mason, Jr. continues. Pop seems obsessed with ruining the one swingman free agent who seemed to be able to handle the pressure and thrive in his first year in San Antonio. After hanging him out to dry as the backup point guard for the last handful of weeks, Mason is now coming off the bench. Why did Pop have to tinker with Mason's role? Mason went from cold blooded assassin to 2004 Hedo with a tan.

-Ime Udoka once again got minutes. Ime Udoka once again got toasted on the defensive end. Apparently, the coaching staff thinks Udoka is a good defender. They must not actually watch him play. When matched up with Durant, Udoka was literally more helpless than Finley. At least Finley has decent length. Slowpoke-a is just too molasses-like to be a defensive option against any opposing perimeter player who ventures out onto the perimeter and is blessed with even a modi of speed.

-Jacque Vaughn. Nice guy. Future NBA head coach. Tireless worker. Third string point guard. Pop's latest incarnation of the 2008-09 San Antonio Spurs rotation seemingly has Vaughn as the backup point guard. That's not going to work. It's just not. There's no way this team makes noise in the playoffs if they have to rely on Vaughn for production. His athleticism and quickness have slipped to the point that he can't be trusted beyond spot minutes. If Vaughn is the backup point guard heading into the playoffs, it will just be a matter of time before Pop gives up on that experiment and goes another direction. Guaranteed.

-Drew Gooden's effort is commendable. He's not backing down from the challenge of integrating himself into Spurs Basketball. But after tonight's game, I'm really starting to doubt whether he's capable. He's just not a smart enough player at either end. Offensively, he's a ball-stopper who constantly wants the ball in his hands. Defensively, he really has no clue what he's doing unless the player he's defending has the ball. Even then, he's still a below average defender. I want to hold out hope that the light will finally turn on in Gooden's head but fans of other teams he was a part of eventually figured out that the waiting was futile.

-Kurt Thomas has been the second best player on the team since the All-Star break. His reward? Apparently Pop planned to pull him completely out of the rotation. Thomas didn't get into the game until the fourth quarter. He actually played pretty well when finally given an opportunity out on the court. Hopefully it was just a matchup issue that Pop saw and that's the reason he held out Thomas. (God forbid Pop ever actually create a mismatch instead of always being the one to react to a perceived matchup problem.)

-As you may have figured out by reading this far, I wasn't overly impressed with the way Pop coached tonight. In fact, I truly believe Pop is in the worst coaching stretch of his career. He has no clue what he's doing and he's hurting this team - both in the short-term and the long-term. Pop has been instrumental in these recent losses and he's laying the foundation for a disappointing playoff exit. I seriously can't figure out what he's doing or any of the method to his current madness.

Overplaying Finley alone is enough for this team not to win a championship. But compound that issue by giving Finley tons of responsibilities on a nightly basis and it's just flabbergasting. I don't even want to type about it any more because it's such a horrible coaching decision.

Add to the Finley fiasco the backup point guard position being in shambles, Mason playing his worst basketball of the season thanks to Pop, the bigman rotation not anywhere close to being set and the fact that the experimenting is continuing on a quarter to quarter basis and you have a recipe for disaster. And that's not even mentioning the biggest threat to the championship hopes - the health of Duncan and Ginobili and the amount of gas in Parker's tank.

I'm not going to say that believe is dead but this is exactly like watching a car heading 50 miles per hour straight towards a cliff with the driver asleep at the wheel. Either the driver will wake up in time to avert disaster or the ending won't be pretty.

I ...this is the stupidest ....since the last time I read your stupid takes which has been quite a while and I'm glad I read this one since it reminded me never to read these threads again.

Good lord. Go back and read that.....sober.

[Capt Bringdown]

Maybe I'm wrong and the Spurs still have time to not only gel but also work Gooden in ....... but I honestly don't see it.

I thought the Spurs did a good job of integrating Glenn Robinson, who didn't do much, but was able to at least make a contribution in the PO.

Nothing wrong with small contributions, case in point PJ Brown last year.

[Ice009]

I BELIEVE in the actual talent on this team..but I don't believe in the coach right now, and I never thought I would say that..

Bruce Bowen does not belong on the bench while Ime ing Udoka is getting minutes..Finley shouldn't be playing more than 20 MPG..Kurt Thomas should be starting, but he isn't, and he's actually coming into the game in the 4th quarter instead..George Hill shouldn't be on the bench while Jacque "LOL" Vaughn is playing..

I believe in the talent on this team..but what the ?..

About one week ago I actually thought we are good enough to make a serious run. I've been saying it for months that Pop has stunk it up and almost everyone jumped on me for saying it.

Pop tried to make a change again, but as usual he ed it up by benching Hill, almost benching Thomas and not playing Gooden much again.

THE OUTSIDE SHOT. When that is not going in how about getting Gooden set up inside and attacking inside.

I'm sure I remember reading in 2003 when we had a great road record that Pop used to tell the team when we play on the road to make sure you get more free throws than the home team. Right now I will take that at home, get more free throws at HOME. Attack the basket. Get Finely off the court and go inside.

I think that Tim, Tony and Manu need to get together and talk about what they think the rotation should be and then go tell Pop. Those three are the main three on the team and they should decide who they want to go out there with them that will give them the best chance to win.

I still think we are good enough, but I don't know about the coach right now.

[word]

[Ice009]

Look, the Spurs are getting open looks, that is not the problem. You can tell when you watch the games, the team has lost their way. No one knows when their number will be called, what their role will be or how to muster up energy.

It is a lack of coaching, a lack of focus and a lack of certainty and trust this team has had over the years. Missing good looks is not the cause of the losses, missing those looks is the effect of the other variables going into it.

How many times do I have to say this Pop is setting his players up to fail. He is not doing them any favors by screwing with the rotation every game. Focus is the key word. Pop's lazy ass approach to the regular season has sunk into his players and now it's really starting to affect us.

It's not over though. We will get it together. Pop has to start by putting the players in a position to succeed and have a solid rotation set. He has to choose defense or offense.

I'd start KT, Tim, Bruce, Mason, TP.

[Ice009]

This is like a bad dream. Pop has made Finley part of the Big Four. Bowen has been relegated to ball boy duties. Vaughn has replaced Hill in the rotation. RMJ has gone Hedo before the playoffs even begin. Gooden has made the bigman rotation even more jumbled. Duncan and Ginobili are about 70% health. Parker very well could have peaked too early. Pop is coaching like its preseason and there are eight games to go before the playoffs.

Unbelievable.

BBL.

You're stealing my Hedo line. I've been saying that for weeks. I don't think it's Pop's fault entirely on Mason's shooting. It's coming towards money time and I'd say teams are paying more attention to Mason and he is rushing his shots more than usual and bricking them.

That's the point a few weeks back where I said screw the offense we gotta get the defense back. Bowen, Hill those guys need more minutes. DEFENSE and Focus is the key along with Manu and Tim being closer to 100%.