Michael Jordan: ‘The Best There Ever Was.’

[stretch]

I don't know where this Jordan won with less talent came from. Jordan had plenty of talent around him. Phil Jackson built those teams around MJ, a very nice group of talented role players. Jordan leads on les and I believe it will take Kobe a couple of les to make that a wash. The rule changes has its pros and cons both ways. Can you imagine what kobe would have done if he faced one on one defenders nightly? What about an Iso for Kobe with the rest of the players off to the side? Kobe would have had a field day.

They have both done things that the other has not achieved. Just like Kobe never won a le without Shaq, MJ never won a le without Pippen or Jackson. I think it's ridiculous to penalize Kobe for having Shaq as a team mate. Kobe did the same things now that he did when Shaq was a Lakers. When the game is on the line, the Lakers put the ball in Kobe's hands, not shaq's. Much like what is going on now with the Lakers. The Lakers never looked to Shaq in a situation like that. Why? Because Kobe was clutch and you could depend on him to make the plays. Whether thats scoring or setting a team mate up for a good look, the ball was in Kobe's hands.

The Finals MVP's are misleading as well. During the Lakers 3 peat the eastern conference had no answer for Shaq. It was just force feed Shaq in the finals. No one could even come close to stopping him but If they gave MVP's for the Western Conference Playoffs, Kobe would have 3 MVP's. The Lakers don't make it to the finals without Kobe Jellybean Bryant.

That said, MJ is the GOAT but if Kobe wins a couple of more les he will be considered the GOAT and well deserved.

Kobe would need to win AT LEAST 3 more, not a couple.

Second, you act as if Pippen is remotely close to the player Shaq was. He's not. Sure, Jordan needed a good second option, but fact is, that was Jordan's team, no questions asked. On the other hand, Kobe was Shaq's second option. That was Shaq's team. And you said it yourself in the whole Finals MVP stuff... all the Lakers had to do was throw it down low to Shaq, and he would take care of it. MJ NEVER had that luxury, as he was the one calling and taking the shots. Why? Because it was HIS team. Just like the Lakers were SHAQ'S team.

Also, you act like all Kobe sees are zone defenses, when in fact, all the best teams, play man defense most, if not all the time.

[mavs>spurs2]

Also, you act like all Kobe sees are zone defenses, when in fact, all the best teams, play man defense most, if not all the time.

True, zone defenses should be a joke to someone with a shot like Kobe's. Zone defense is bad defense, it's just a crutch to fall back on when a team absolutely cannot stop the drive.

[resistanze]

The Finals MVP's are misleading as well. During the Lakers 3 peat the eastern conference had no answer for Shaq. It was just force feed Shaq in the finals. No one could even come close to stopping him but If they gave MVP's for the Western Conference Playoffs, Kobe would have 3 MVP's.

2002 WCF
Shaq: 30PPG/14RPG on 54% Shooting
Kobe: 27PPG on 42% shooting

2001 WCF
Shaq: 27PPG/13RPG on 54% Shooting
Kobe: 34PPG/7APG/7RPG on 51% shooting

2000 WCF
Shaq: 26PPG/12RPG on 54% Shooting
Kobe: 20PPG/6APG/5RPG on 41% shooting

No.

[kingmalaki]

I'm not sure where this "MJ didn't have help" argument comes from. Pippen was arguably the best SF in basketball when they were winning. Grant was an All-Star caliber PF. Rodman should be in the HOF. Kukoc was great off the bench. They had tons of dependable shooters as well. , the team won 50+ games without Jordan in 95 and almost got to the ECF, and all they really added was Kukoc (rookie) and Pete freaking Myers. MJ had tons of help....

With that being said, I don't see how Kobe can be in the GOAT convo when he clearly isn't even the best player in his generation (Shaq or Duncan....pick one).

[LakeShow]

2002 WCF
Shaq: 30PPG/14RPG on 54% Shooting
Kobe: 27PPG on 42% shooting

2001 WCF
Shaq: 27PPG/13RPG on 54% Shooting
Kobe: 34PPG/7APG/7RPG on 51% shooting

2000 WCF
Shaq: 26PPG/12RPG on 54% Shooting
Kobe: 20PPG/6APG/5RPG on 41% shooting

No.

I said western conference playoffs not finals. Even with that,

in 2000 the lakers don't get to the finals without Kobe's play against Portland in game 7, down 15. Kobe lead the lakers to victory.

2001 western conference playoffs you should remember quite well. Kobe abused Timmie and Drob and the whole SA team that season in the playoffs. That was the season when Shaq called Kobe, Phenomenal. Nuff said.

2002 western conference playoffs. Shaq was hurt and out of shape that year. Kobe carried the lakers in the playoffs.

[bdubya]

yes, I'm still bitter about the push off on Bryon Russel.

As you should be. But maybe it won't hurt so much if you think of it as payback for every cheap elbow Malone ever threw.

[samikeyp]

As you should be. But maybe it won't hurt so much if you think of it as payback for every cheap elbow Malone ever threw.

"But..but...that elbow against Robinson was legal"

-just about every Jazz fan I have ever met.

[cobbler]

For gosh sakes... how many times does the Kobe =,>,< Jordan thing need to be brought up? All the arguments are subjective. You are comparing different eras, rules, compe ion levels. Everyone has their opinions. I happen to think neither is the GOAT as I put Oscar and Wilt above them both. You have different positions. You have different criteria. Blah blah blah. Example: People bring up the rings all the time... well then I guess that means Russell is the GOAT. MVPs... then I guess the nod goes to Kareem. Scoring Avg... Wilt.

...and so on and so on and so on.

Give it a rest already.... How about remembering Jordan for all the skills, highlights, and memories he gave us and enjoy Kobe for what he brings to the table in the present.

[IronMexican]

Lol, cobbler is old.

[Spursmania]

In Kobe's case?

Thank you for another great laugh!