Hakeem vs Duncan Part 2

[Artest93]

This is the opposite of offering support for your argument. The Rockets were a pretty damn good team BEFORE Hakeem.

I think this is a toss up. If you need an individual scorer, a guy to go out and absolutely take over games night after night with a few role players around him, you go with Hakeem. If you're going to build a franchise based upon ball movement, fast rotation, and spot up shooters who can play defense, you pick Duncan.

Spurs won the first le because of the efforts of Avery Johnson...dont forget that

[BlackSwordsMan]

everyone knows dirk>

[Artest93]

Hakeem carried the team to both championships

[Trimble87]

Then it would be safe to say that the only reason Duncan has four rings is because Kobe and Shaq didnt get along and eventually broke up leading to Duncans 3 more rings.

It wasnt meant as a knock on Hakeem, the rockets still had to go through Ewings Knicks which were a great team, not to mention the entire western conference (including the spurs.)

In fact, my point was that hakeem had a much greater level of compe ion, so the fact that he won two les against that compe ion is a testament to what kind of player he was.

As for Duncan not winning any of the les after 99... I wouldnt go that far. But if Kobe and Shaq werent such whiney es I think they would have 3 peated again by now for sure... luckily they are whiney es.

That being said Kobe is a top 5 SG of all time. And Shaq is a top 5 Center of all time. Neither Duncan or Hakeem have ever been partnered with someone on that level.

[stretch]

Manu would be an allstar without Duncan. Parker would be an allstar without Duncan. Your judgement is way off. Parker and Manu are players that dont need other players to excel. Notice how they both have monster games when Duncan is hurt. Guys like Avery, Sean and Mason are the types of players that benefit from Duncan.

I'm saying they developed into the players they are today because they had Tim Duncan with them early on, helping build their confidence, picking up their slack, and making things a lot easier for them by drawing so much defensive attention. A lot of players have incredible talent, but aren't developed well due to poor teammates/poor coaching, and dont reach their potential. Tim Duncan is the ultimate guy you want to have on your team to help develop young talent.

I honestly don't feel that they would have turned into the players they became today, without Tim Duncan helping them early in their careers, showing them what its like to win les right out the gate.

[Trimble87]

And imo it all started with David Robinson. Duncan walked into a great situation where he got to be mentored by the classiest big man in the NBA. Duncans at ude work ethic and leadership on and off the court are what have kept the spurs in contention all these years imo.

[Artest93]

People have to remember that flopping was not part of the game in the 80's and 90's...Hand checks are no longer allowed, if you look at Lebron wrong you get a foul, there is no way Lebron could have lasted playing against Magic, Bird, Hakeem and so forth. The game is too easy today

[JamStone]

there is no way Lebron could have lasted playing against Magic, Bird, Hakeem and so forth. The game is too easy today

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. The game may not be as rough as it was, but to say LeBron couldn't even have lasted then? Re-read what you wrote there.

[DPG21920]

thing is, personally, i dont think duncan played with that great of talent, other than robinson (at the end of his career though). i mean i think parker and ginobili are good, but there is no question that duncan has helped them immensly through their careers, and helped them to develop into the players they are today. the guy is an incredible team player and truly makes his teammates better, something that Hakeem didn't really do.

Truth. In all honesty, the Spurs have had some of the weakest rosters for championship teams when you look throughout history. Tim made Manu and Parker, not the other way around.

Even then, the supporting cast was not very good and if you were to go through the rosters, player for player, you would see the "played with more talent" argument is just not valid.

[IronMexican]

In fact, my point was that hakeem had a much greater level of compe ion, so the fact that he won two les against that compe ion is a testament to what kind of player he was.

I wouldnt go that far. But if Kobe and Shaq werent such whiney es I think they would have 3 peated again by now for sure... luckily they are whiney es.

*sigh* I love Shaq, but I agree 100%

[Artest93]

That's a pretty ridiculous statement. The game may not be as rough as it was, but to say LeBron couldn't even have lasted then? Re-read what you wrote there.

Somebody would have knocked him in his mouth and he starts crying....Prince James is more like it

[DPG21920]

Somebody would have knocked him in his mouth and he starts crying....Prince James is more like it

Ya.Right.

[Double-Up]

People have to remember that flopping was not part of the game in the 80's and 90's...Hand checks are no longer allowed, if you look at Lebron wrong you get a foul, there is no way Lebron could have lasted playing against Magic, Bird, Hakeem and so forth. The game is too easy today

Lebron is too big and quick to have been denied what he does best which is going to the rim even WITH handchecking. 6-8, 270, athletic is can be = beasty in ANY era.

[anonoftheinternets]

If Shaq was a rookie in 98, I wonder how many rings he'd have by now.

prob the same, or fewer coz lol imagine an "immature" shaq with kobe? We all saw how well the mature one did.

[lil_penny]

This is a toss up for me, as a blazer fan I must choose sam bowie.. honestly though I can't pick between these two

[IronMexican]

prob the same, or fewer coz lol imagine an "immature" shaq with kobe? We all saw how well the mature one did.

Yeah, I get you. It would be awesome to see Shaq paired with a guard who doesn't have much of an ego, like a Roy type player, who doesn't mind being second fiddle.

[Artest93]

Lebron is too big and quick to have been denied what he does best which is going to the rim even WITH handchecking. 6-8, 270, athletic is can be = beasty in ANY era.

Yeah, Ok....Even though it was more of a defensive game back then

[Trimble87]

Shaq should arrange a buyout and come win his fifth championship alongside Duncan imo

[anonoftheinternets]

Yeah, I get you. It would be awesome to see Shaq paired with a guard who doesn't have much of an ego, like a Roy type player, who doesn't mind being second fiddle.

+1, he did good with wade. Penny and Kobe not so much. Although I think hes become a little more mellow with age.

[Warlord23]

Better overall talent: Hakeem Olajuwon
Better overall player: Tim Duncan

You want to win 1-on-1 games, pick Olajuwon. You want to win team games, pick Duncan.

Olajuwon had about four superstar seasons. Apart from than that he was no different from Patrick Ewing. Duncan has been the franchise player of the most successful franchise in pro sports since he laced them up.

Duncan carried the weakest supporting cast of them all to a le in 2003 ... no other player is/was going to win an NBA le with S-Jax as his second best player. The Olajuwon Rockets OTOH had the best outside shooting supporting cast in memory.

Olajuwon led the Rockets to mediocrity in 91-92 (42 wins), 89-90 (41 wins), 88-89 (45 wins), 87-88 (46 wins), 86-87 (42 wins). In that span, the Rockets actually did better in the one season (52 wins in 90-91) when Olajuwon missed 25 games. Most of you kids remember the 93 to 95 Olajuwon who looked unstoppable. Till that point, he was considered good but not great.

Duncan on the other hand has been regarded as great from his rookie season onwards. He was already anointed the greatest at his position after only 6 years (98 to 2003) in this league! A healthy Duncan has led the Spurs to 56 games or more every year till this one, and has been contending for a ring every single year. SA has been the winningest franchise in all of sports in the Duncan era.

More rings (4 to 2), more MVPs (2 to 1), more Finals MVPs (3 to 2), more All-NBA 1st team selections (9 to 6), more All-Defensive 1st team selections (8 to 5), a vastly superior team winning % with different supporting casts.

Hakeem's prime > Duncan's prime
Duncan's overall body of work > Hakeem's overall body of work

[SpursFan67]

Has there ever been another player that didnt have another allstar playing with him that won a le?

What timmy did in 2003 was exactly what hakeem did in 1994,leading a group of role players to rhe le.But i think hakeem was nearly as good as duncan skillwise,but hold a significant advantages in term of athleticisim;gotta go with the Dream

[JoeTait75]

People have to remember that flopping was not part of the game in the 80's and 90's

I guess you never saw Bill Laimbeer play.

[Spursmania]

Timmy baby!

[poop]

Better overall talent: Hakeem Olajuwon
Better overall player: Tim Duncan

You want to win 1-on-1 games, pick Olajuwon. You want to win team games, pick Duncan.

Olajuwon had about four superstar seasons. Apart from than that he was no different from Patrick Ewing. Duncan has been the franchise player of the most successful franchise in pro sports since he laced them up.

Duncan carried the weakest supporting cast of them all to a le in 2003 ... no other player is/was going to win an NBA le with S-Jax as his second best player. The Olajuwon Rockets OTOH had the best outside shooting supporting cast in memory.

Olajuwon led the Rockets to mediocrity in 91-92 (42 wins), 89-90 (41 wins), 88-89 (45 wins), 87-88 (46 wins), 86-87 (42 wins). In that span, the Rockets actually did better in the one season (52 wins in 90-91) when Olajuwon missed 25 games. Most of you kids remember the 93 to 95 Olajuwon who looked unstoppable. Till that point, he was considered good but not great.

Duncan on the other hand has been regarded as great from his rookie season onwards. He was already anointed the greatest at his position after only 6 years (98 to 2003) in this league! A healthy Duncan has led the Spurs to 56 games or more every year till this one, and has been contending for a ring every single year. SA has been the winningest franchise in all of sports in the Duncan era.

More rings (4 to 2), more MVPs (2 to 1), more Finals MVPs (3 to 2), more All-NBA 1st team selections (9 to 6), more All-Defensive 1st team selections (8 to 5), a vastly superior team winning % with different supporting casts.

Hakeem's prime > Duncan's prime
Duncan's overall body of work > Hakeem's overall body of work

THIS. end thread

[stretch]

People have to remember that flopping was not part of the game in the 80's and 90's...Hand checks are no longer allowed, if you look at Lebron wrong you get a foul, there is no way Lebron could have lasted playing against Magic, Bird, Hakeem and so forth. The game is too easy today

You're clearly a in idiot.