have the Duncan-era Spurs ever had as big a ballhog as Gooden?

[Kori Ellis]

In general, Gooden always been a black hole/ballhhog/whatever term you want to use. He breaks plays, calls for the ball constantly and doesn't play within the offense.

HOWEVER, with Manu out and the Spurs in desperate need of another scorer, this isn't a horrible thing. If he tones down his ballhogging ways of the past and realizes that if he passes, he's going to get the ball back in the Spurs system, then he's going to be a huge asset. So far, he's been getting acclimated rather quickly and has started to get better about being a black hole already.

Overall, you can't complain about the guy. He's exactly what the Spurs need right now. However in the future, I can't imagine him playing on the floor with Manu/Tim/Tony unless he changes his style of play dramatically. He just needs the ball too much to be effective with three other scorers on the floor. So I'm not sure if the Spurs see him as a fit for next year, or if he's just their rent-a-player for the season.

[koriwhat]

i saw him up close in two games and yes he's a ballhog! a huge ballhog but i don't mind that so much as i mind him taking ill-advised shots when under pressure.

shoot as much as you want but dont try to stress ! if you're pressured then kick the ball out but if youre not then shoot it and if you miss oh well. just dont shoot under such pressure when you know damn well you aint got a shot to take.

[dougp]

In general, Gooden always been a black hole/ballhhog/whatever term you want to use. He breaks plays, calls for the ball constantly and doesn't play within the offense.

HOWEVER, with Manu out and the Spurs in desperate need of another scorer, this isn't a horrible thing. If he tones down his ballhogging ways of the past and realizes that if he passes, he's going to get the ball back in the Spurs system, then he's going to be a huge asset. So far, he's been getting acclimated rather quickly and has started to get better about being a black hole already.

Overall, you can't complain about the guy. He's exactly what the Spurs need right now. However in the future, I can't imagine him playing on the floor with Manu/Tim/Tony unless he changes his style of play dramatically. He just needs the ball too much to be effective with three other scorers on the floor. So I'm not sure if the Spurs see him as a fit for next year, or if he's just their rent-a-player for the season.

They were running quite a few isolation plays for him yesterday. I still don't understand how he disrupts the offense though, no more than Ime or Bruce.

[mingus]

Gooden's a good offensive player, but does anyone else get the feeling he doesn't know what the he's doing on offense or defense as far as playign wthin the sytem? He's usually either late or just on time, but hardly ever ready, on his rotations for whatever ever reason.

Example (and maybe I'm wrong about this one, maybe it was a designed this way): yesterday on offense, he crowded TD as Duncan was about to do a hook shot by bringing his man towards Duncan. Common sense tells you to clear out so Duncan has room. The play I'm talking about worked out in our favor actually (it was in the second quarter I believe). Duncan had an and 1 because Gooden's man (I think randolph) tried going for the block and got his arm instead.

Against smart defenders who don't fall for every fake and try to make a monster blocks and foul instead, he would have ed up that play. And I;ve seen like this on quite a bit from him. Too much.

He's got to get his together when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. In the playoffs, I doubt he'll be given the ball down the stretch late in games. It's going to go to either TD or TP, and rightfully so. His off the ball play and defense (specially rotations) are key, and if we have any chance to go deep, he'll have to succeed in that area. His offense will probably keep us in most games (or at least I hope it will), without the other stuff, we'll fall short.

[ElNono]

Gooden's a good offensive player, but does anyone else get the feeling he doesn't know what the he's doing on offense or defense as far as playign wthin the sytem? He's usually either late or just on time, but hardly ever ready, on his rotations for whatever ever reason.

Example (and maybe I'm wrong about this one, maybe it was a designed this way): yesterday on offense, he crowded TD as Duncan was about to do a hook shot by bringing his man towards Duncan. Common sense tells you to clear out so Duncan has room. The play I'm talking about worked out in our favor actually (it was in the second quarter I believe). Duncan had an and 1 because Gooden's man (I think randolph) tried going for the block and got his arm instead.

Against smart defenders who don't fall for every fake and try to make a monster blocks and foul instead, he would have ed up that play. And I;ve seen like this on quite a bit from him. Too much.

He's got to get his together when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. In the playoffs, I doubt he'll be given the ball down the stretch late in games. It's going to go to either TD or TP, and rightfully so. His off the ball play and defense (specially rotations) are key, and if we have any chance to go deep, he'll have to succeed in that area. His offense will probably keep us in most games (or at least I hope it will), without the other stuff, we'll fall short.

There are many times when he looks out of it when he doesn't have the ball in his hands.

I agree he feels out of the system. But to be honest, he's the only guy that didn't have at least one full training camp with the team. So I'll reserve judgement on his recklessness until next season. If he's still out of the system, then sure, we definitely could have something to gripe about.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Sometimes I wonder if Pop has lost his defensive principles. He's seemingly become so obsessed with offense. Obviously, the object of the game is to put the ball in the basket, but you have to stop the other team sometime too.

The game has changed. It's now much more guard oriented, much more offensive oriented, and you win games with defense complementing the offense and the offense as the lead weapon.

This is because (a) the rules and more importantly their interpretation changed, (b) players coming into the league are now more offensively skilled, stronger, and bigger, and (c) these things just have a way of going in cycles.

The main offensive play you see these days is the point or two guard working off a high screen and driving and shooting or dishing. There's really not much a single defender can do. The screener's man can hedge or blitz (the Spurs do this well), but the on-ball defender can't make much contact without a foul being called (especially for the "superstars", of which Tony apparently isn't one somehow... maybe because he's not American?). This is how Paul, Parker, Wade, and Williams all work it.

The post-up to the four/five is now secondary, and is often designed to draw a double-team so the 4/5 can pass out of it to the open three point shooter (or at least to the perimiter where it can be quickly swung to the other side).

Give Popovich some credit for changing with the times.

[Manufan909]

In general, Gooden always been a black hole/ballhhog/whatever term you want to use. He breaks plays, calls for the ball constantly and doesn't play within the offense.

HOWEVER, with Manu out and the Spurs in desperate need of another scorer, this isn't a horrible thing. If he tones down his ballhogging ways of the past and realizes that if he passes, he's going to get the ball back in the Spurs system, then he's going to be a huge asset. So far, he's been getting acclimated rather quickly and has started to get better about being a black hole already.

Overall, you can't complain about the guy. He's exactly what the Spurs need right now. However in the future, I can't imagine him playing on the floor with Manu/Tim/Tony unless he changes his style of play dramatically. He just needs the ball too much to be effective with three other scorers on the floor. So I'm not sure if the Spurs see him as a fit for next year, or if he's just their rent-a-player for the season.

I would think the obvious potential Manu and Gooden showed when they played together would make it an easy choice. Look how effective Gooden is with Mase/Bowen/Ime/KT(no one can create in any way, shape, or form), he'd be that much better partially feeding of Manu.

If having a ballhog is the price the Spurs have to pay for a 2nd unit inside presence who will draw fouls, and craploads of them, and they don't pay it, then I''m guessing they are more high on Ian then they should be. the 2010 plan Pop, no one looks at SA and sees $$$$$.

[fraga]

Gooden is a starter on most teams...this is TRULY one of the worst threads in a while...sorry...but to the original poster...

[HarlemHeat37]

The game has changed. It's now much more guard oriented, much more offensive oriented, and you win games with defense complementing the offense and the offense as the lead weapon.

This is because (a) the rules and more importantly their interpretation changed, (b) players coming into the league are now more offensively skilled, stronger, and bigger, and (c) these things just have a way of going in cycles.

The main offensive play you see these days is the point or two guard working off a high screen and driving and shooting or dishing. There's really not much a single defender can do. The screener's man can hedge or blitz (the Spurs do this well), but the on-ball defender can't make much contact without a foul being called (especially for the "superstars", of which Tony apparently isn't one somehow... maybe because he's not American?). This is how Paul, Parker, Wade, and Williams all work it.

The post-up to the four/five is now secondary, and is often designed to draw a double-team so the 4/5 can pass out of it to the open three point shooter (or at least to the perimiter where it can be quickly swung to the other side).

Give Popovich some credit for changing with the times.

while you're right, the NBA has been like that since 2004-2005, after they changed the rules..we've won 2 les since then..so I don't think it's necessarily Pop changing with the times..I think it's simply a matter of no longer having the weapons to play lock down D, so Pop trying to mix in a little more offense..

the NBA has always been about mixing your offense and defense..you can never win with just one..

[my2sons]

terry mings, dominique wilkens...george gervin...whats your point