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So, it looks like we've done a wonderful job in the draft in the past 10 years, as you've listed, but why are you questioning the FO?
Not to overlook the current playoffs or anything like that, the Spurs are as resilient now as they've ever been before. There breakdown this season and post season is not at all at the fault of their players. not when you look at the bigger picture.
With an aging unit and injury plagued season, these San Antonio Spurs may look like the least talented group of Spurs we’ve seen since before Tim Duncan was drafted. Taking nothing away from Five 'O, Avery and Sean, but this doesn't look like the championship team we're all familiar with. With all that said, it’s still not panic time in San Antonio. Yes, Tim is injured, but he’s still Tim Duncan, the greatest power forward to ever play the game. Once he’s healed, he’s a dominant force. That unfortunately may not fully occur until the off season. Manu Ginobili is still this team’s X factor, but with him out indefinitely, also due to injury, it makes some wonder if they can even win in the first round of the playoffs. His off season recovery will also be vital to next season. Tony Parker is in his prime. He is one of the best point guards in the league, and aside from Derek Fisher, has more rings than any other point guard in the league. Greg Popovich is one of the greatest coaches in league history. Many claim it is only because of the talent his team has had with the Admiral, and then the Big Fundamental. Greg himself makes this same modest disagreement when publicly praised. This however is what makes him so great. He’s an all win, no excuse making coach. In a decisive game 4 during the 2008 Western Conference Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, an obvious foul was made on then Spurs reserve SG Brent Barry during the closing seconds. The referees [Danny Crawford in particular] completely ignored the foul, waiving it off and ending regulation with the Lakers winning the game and grabbing momentum from the then defending champ Spurs, ultimately closing out the series in, what appeared to be, an easy 5 games. Greg made no argument, and even credited the refereeing staff that night…clearly a humble response. What of, then, the supporting cast. How can the bench and role players be summarized?
Age alone cannot be to blame for their inconsistencies, can it? If it were simply a matter of their offense being absent, then the same ol’ “too old” argument would not be an adequate explanation. Sometimes, the ball just won’t go in the hole. This is, however, not the case since both their offense and defense have significantly plunged this season. The losses last season and this season alike cannot be blamed on shoddy officiating alone. With the exception of a hobbled Manu Ginobili, the team’s stars were playing as their usual selves. It was their supporting cast that was clearly out matched against the Lakers, and in some games the Hornets. There is no question that in their youth and early 30’s, the likes of a Michael Finley, Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto, Jauque Vaughn Robert Horry and a Kurt Thomas were formidable players as teammates. The fact, however, is that all of these players are beyond their prime time years. Well beyond. Half of these guys are knocking on the door to 40. Bowen used to be the prime Kobe stopper in 03, even in 04, however he was barely in his early 30’s then. There is no disputing that for men at their ages, they are athletic, finely tuned hard working basketball players. Their basketball intelligence alone is superior to many. But they are up against, younger, faster, and sometimes more stronger players.
So why is it that a perennial team whose standard of winning is almost always expected, never evolves? When people say the Spurs are done, its clear exaggeration, typically spoken out of frustration by the passionate or fair weathered fan, or by those who have a sense of satisfaction in saying so since the Spurs have competed with or in some cases dominated their teams so often [i.e. Phoenix, Dallas, etc…]. This is still a good basketball team. They are still playoff contenders, and when all healthy, you can never count them out in any playoff series. Unfortunately the one reason that the Spurs have been so great for the past decade, is the same reason they are declining…the front office. As General Manager, R.C. Buford has brought in some of the best role players this team has known to help out the big 3, and earlier on, the twin towers. The off season addition of Roger Mason Jr. is clearly a gamble he won. There have been many other role players in this teams past that have made the difference during their time in S.A. When you look at, however, what Buford has given to obtain these role players, one can’t help but wonder if it was worth it all. Yes the Spurs have 4 championships. Heck, had it not been for bad calls made down the stretch, they might have had 7 by now. Yet it is reckless in my opinion to only build a team around the veteran free-agent market, and not the draft. With the exception of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, the Spurs have made nothing of their prospects from their drafts within this past decade since they drafted Duncan in 97. Why is it, that Buford and Pop only seek those who are seasoned [some over-seasoned] in their careers? They freely trade away invaluable picks every season of what could eventually become well proven leaders and all stars during the long run. And for what? 2-3 years MAX of consistent contributions as opposed to 1-2 years of serious molding and up to 10 years of consistent contributions. Could it be that Pop has grown too impatient with molding players and chooses to win now? Any and all true contingency plans in draft picks this team has had in the past 10 years, might have been traded if not given away to other teams. Other draft picks were spent on foreign players who were likely under contract with their respective overseas teams. Some of which may never play in an NBA game despite being drafted. These opinions are my own, but one can’t help but wonder if R.C. Buford traded away what could have been a very deep and dangerous bench that would’ve rivaled or even trumped that of the Lakers today. As we look back, you’ve gotta wonder what could’ve been had it not been for the whole Jason Kidd free agent fiasco in 03-04. Even now, the Spurs 08 draft pick, George Hill, sees very limited playing time. [Although he’s seen a lot more than expected thanks to earlier injuries to Parker and Ginobili] Patience is truly a virtue, but it’s one we all know Pop has very little of. So what’s Buford’s excuse?
A look back on what some might consider wasted opportunities…
--------------------
San Antonio Spurs Draft Picks within the past 10 years
2009
25. [1st Round Pick Traded pick to Seattle/OKC for Kurt Thomas in ‘08]
37.
53.
54.
2008
26. George Hill
45. Goran Dragic [Traded to Phoenix for rights to Malik Hariston] - Malik Hariston just recently waived.
57. James Gist - Not signed...currently "developing" overseas
2007
28. Tiago Splitter – Recently re-signed w/ Tau Cermica in Spain for more money than the NBA could have paid him. [Could have gotten Carl Landry (Rockets)]
33. Marcus Williams - Initially Waived…recently re-signed to Spurs for remainder of 2009 season, but sent back to Austin Toros.
58. Giorgos Printezis [Traded to Toronto for Matt Bonner]
2006
29. Mardy Collins [Traded to New York for Nazr Mohammed in ‘05]
59. Damir Markota [Traded to Milwaukee for cash]
2005
28. Ian Mahinmi – Initially spent rookie season with Austin Toros [D-League]. Currently out indefinitely with injury. [Could have gotten David Lee (Knicks), Salim Stoudemire (Hawks), Brandon Bass (Hornets, now plays for Mavs), Monta Ellis (Warriors)]
2004
28. Beno Udrih – Fell out of favor with Pop. Traded to T-Wolves, waived, now plays for Kings.
[Could have gotten Trevor Ariza (Knicks…now plays for Lakers)]
52. Romain Sato - Waived
57. Sergei Karaulov - Never signed. Still overseas…
2003
28. Leandro Barbosa [Traded to Phoenix for a future first-round pick to save cap space to attempt to sign Jason Kidd. Kidd rejected offer and re-signed with New Jersey Nets]
[Could have gotten Josh Howard (Mavericks)]
2002
26. John Salmons [Traded to 76ers for Speedy Claxton...played for Kings, recently traded to Bulls.]
56. Luis Scola – Scola’s contract with Tau Ceramica was too expensive for Spurs to buy out. In 2007 San Antonio traded Scola to Houston for Vassilis Spanoulis who was immediately waived afterwards.
57. Randy Holcomb [Traded to Philadelphia for Speedy Claxton]
2001
28. Tony Parker – All Star
56. Robertas Javtokas – Never signed. Still overseas…
58. Bryan Bracey - Waived
2000
41. Chris Carrawell - Waived
54. Cory Hightower[Traded to LA Lakers for two future second-round picks]
1999
29. Leon Smith[Traded to Mavericksfor Gordan Giricek…Giriceck then traded to Memphis for a future second-round pick]
57. Emanuel D. Ginobili – All Star
1998
24. Felipe Lopez (immediately traded along with Carl Herrera, to the Vancouver Grizzlies for point guard Antonio Daniels)
52. Derrick Dial (Played for the Spurs until 2001…pretty much a bust)
Last edited by BadOne; 04-27-2009 at 01:54 PM.
So, it looks like we've done a wonderful job in the draft in the past 10 years, as you've listed, but why are you questioning the FO?
I respect your opinion, however only 3 major players have been developed since 97 since Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. The thread is about possible missed opportunities in the drafts, which are moves made by the FO.
Name the other teams in the past 10 years who have drafted 2 all stars picking in the late first and second round.
But can you name how many teams drafted 3 all stars last 10 years?? And now how many of them were out of the lottery so they can't pick in the top15?? And now how many of them won 50 games so they picked below the number 20-25.??
Only the San Antonio Spurs did so it's a good work for me.
When we are a lottery team and we pick bad players then this thread will have more sense
We wrote the same.
Not only have we found 2 gems picking late, but we've also done great job of using the almost useless late 1st round picks in trades to acquire important pieces in championship runs.
at least the spurs haven't made a nobrain draft like the kwame brown one, or a terrible draft night trade like the jefferson for griffin one that the rockets made in 01.
the one used in Kurt's trade?
So it would have resulted in drafting which scrub at 25 in this awful draft class? Moreover, adding guaranteed salary before the 2010 summer?the one used in Kurt's trade?
Stick to your Mavs dude, they're doing really well right now.
Name 1 team who won 4 les in last decade !
I read the reactions to posts like this and I still can't believe how Spurs fans give their FO such a free pass for their drafts and moves? Everybody keeps falling back on the "Who else has drafted 3 All Stars in the last 10 years card?"! SO WHAT? It's a "What have you done for me lately?" world!
In the last 7 drafts, the Spurs FO has been inept! They've actually drafted some good players like Salmons, Scola, Barbosa, Udrih, and Splitter, but they've signed ZERO of them! Picking George Hill during this last draft was a mistake too. Even if he does develop into a reliable bench player (which I doubt) he still could have been had in the 2nd round.
I just don't get it. You let these pompous fools promote themselves to presidents within the Spurs' organization while they haven't done anything for the past 7 years!
Hindsight is 20/20... You don't know any of those guys would develop the way they did.
This thread is
Sorry folkz, didn't mean to cause a ruckus...the post isn't saying that the FO doesn't find talent. There is no arguement there. The problem is them not utilizing or molding it.
I still say it loud and proud peeps! GO SPURS GO.
I just can't help but wonder what a difference it'd be right now if our starting team was this:
PG: G. Hill
SG: R. Mason [with Manu hurt and all]
SF: T. Ariza
PF: T. Duncan
C: D. Lee or Carl Landry
Wonder away. I would take this team all day over that one:
PG: Parker
SG: Mason [with Manu hurt and all]
SF: Bowen
PF: Duncan
C: Gooden
Except win 3 Championships.....
Oh, I forgot. Drafting busts like Sam Bowie and Greg Oden should be the priority for any FO right? Say what you want to about the past 7 years, the results speak for themselves.
Typical response. I expected as much. The FO didn't win those championships. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili did.
Parker was drafted in 2001. It is now 2009. You realize that the person most credited with the drafting of Tony does not even work for the Spurs anymore.
Let' see...Here are the last 10 NBA Champions:
1. Boston Celtics (2008)
2. San Antonio Spurs (2007)
3. Miami Heat (2006)
4. San Antonio Spurs (2005)
5. Detroit Pistons (2004)
6. San Antonio Spurs (2003)
7. LA Lakers (2002)
8. LA Lakers (2001)
9. LA Lakers (2000)
10. San Antono Spurs (1999)
Which of the teams listed above drafted 3 All Stars ?
It's very clear that a team's success is not built in the draft but rather through free agency and trades. In fact, it could be argued that the Spurs were the only Championship team to draft its own studs and its not even close.
The Lakers got Shaq through FA
The Pistons got Rasheed, Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups through trades
The Celtics got Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, Posey and Rondo through trades
Miami got Shaq and Alonzo through trades and Free Agency
Your theory actually shows how fortunate the Spurs were and how good they were at drafting championship caliber players. -- Duncan, Parker and Ginobili.
In addition, the Front office has done an outstanding job of acquiring FA's that have turned out to be difference makers.
I don't think we passed up on any player listed that went on to either win rings or become All Star. Did Josh Howard or Ellis ever become All Stars ? I'm not sure.
Last edited by tmtcsc; 04-24-2009 at 10:40 AM.
Please name me a team that can replenish it's roster drafting in the bottom five or six picks for the last freaking decade.
I love Mr Trail Blazer chiming in about the Spurs front office when that team has not been a serious threat for ten years and has had a bunch of chances to draft in the 1st five picks recently. What has Portland accomplished in the playoffs since 1999? Anyone? Anyone? And that prized pick Oden (Bowie, Jr) will not accomplish half of what Kevin Durant will as an NBA player.
Drafting year after year after year in the 24 spot or worse makes it next to impossible to replenish a championship level squad when the core ages. It does not matter who is in the front office - it is impossible. A team gets to be great (almost without exception) by drafting in the top five picks and building around great players.
The Spurs filled in around Robinson and moreso Duncan pretty well. Manu and Parker obviously helped tremendously. Few players drafted as low as they were drafted have achieved so much.
Looks like a list of overseas scrubs. And as long Pop is coaching. Thats all this team will find. Buy American and watch how fast things start to shine. If your gonna waste time with non American then send them to Austin. Wait thats what we always do. Tim Duncan should do the city of San Antonio a favor and retire himself. He cant make a layup or block a shot. Whats his PO average so far. Something like 14 points per game. Wow what a beast. hahahahahahaha
The front office sucks. No significant trades for an all star or even borderline star, no free agent difference makers. You hand Robinson and Duncan to any other front office to build around and they would win.
The Lakers won 3 les during Robinson and Duncans prime years together. The spurs are a pitiful front office getting handed Robinson and Duncan thru lottery luck and still getting outdone by the Lakers during Robinson and Duncans prime years together.
The lakers reloaded quickly. I don't care if its through trades or free agency a good front office will use all the necessary tools to get the players and trades and free agency are great ways to reload a team. The spurs have a bad track record getting players through trades and free agency.
You have to take the good along with the bad when it comes to these decisions. We have made some amazing pick ups like Tony and Manu that no one else saw, and missed some opportunities like Howard and Scola etc etc etc. No FO is perfect, and no team wins every time. We, as a fanbase, are unbelievably spoiled by the success of this team. We should all take a breath and enjoy it before its gone.
the lakers are a 4-8 seed and not in contention for the le if not for the Gasol give-away. This would have been the fourth first round loss in a row if not for the grizzlies imho.
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