Atheism on the rise in every single US state.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

He made a pretty good case that it might be there.

It will be funny when the thing turns out to be a jack-in-the-box.

well they said that the satellite photos are very close to the specs stated in the bible.

[LnGrrrR]

No no no, there's no one forcing you to worship or vice versa. The people throwing out "why did God let ______ terrible thing happen" need to realize it has nothing to do with God and everything to do with our own terrible machinations. God can stop us but won't - its a ing choice, that simple. Do the right thing and get to heaven. Do something else, you don't. God isn't going to show you his face just so you'll have a little faith.

Let's look at that explanation.

God will not explicitly come out and prove himself to humanity.

And yet, if they do not choose to profess their love/fear of him, he will doom them to torment for eternity.

How can this be considered just/moral? (And please do not use the argument, "Because all God does is right" or some variation. I'm looking for a REASONABLE answer, one that can be deduced using REASON.)

[peewee's lovechild]

There's plenty of people who have do ented the Spirit of God (one of the Trinity) revealing Himself to them. It is do ented in the Bible in the first part of the Acts of the Apostles.

get your facts straight. Just because God has no revealed himself to you, means nothing about the countless others he has.

You didn't read my original post on the matter, did you?

I flat out said that the trinity bull is a ing cop out. No, no, no, no. The whole "spirit" thing is not the same as god coming down and saying "what's up" to his peeps.

And, you're using the bible as do entation of god making his presence known??

[Phenomanul]

Please, like it takes any super power to predict worldwide currency...what else is included in these biblical prophecies? Weapon technology will increase with time?

Speak in hindsight all you want...

I'll give you something a bit more concrete...

One day (maybe in our lifetimes... maybe not) the Ark of the Covenant will be found (the bonafide artifact from the Raiders of the Lost Ark movie).

One day the deserts in Israel will begin to bloom.

One day two divine witnesses will come to earth to spread the gospel... They will wield great power, but the world will be blinded by their loyalty to the anti-Christ that they will come to hate them. One day on international television / youtube (or some other "fill in the blank" broadcast medium) they will be murdered and the world will rejoice in their death.

But when that day comes (if we're still around), you'll likely brush these events off as trivialities...

EDIT: For that matter "the every eye will see" concept (used repeatedly in the Bible) is a bit outlandish... at any point in history but our own that is: people today can broadcast anything for all the world to see... Distance is no longer a hindrance for such a profecy to hold weight. How could people a mere 100 years ago even envision the validity of such profecies... With today's technologies now they don't even have to be questioned.... I guess that technological eventuality was common knowledge as well 2,000 years ago, right?

[z0sa]

Ah, so you're an idiot.

I've read the BIble.

I didn't specify which holy book would correctly point the way now did I? Nor did I specify what the Book would do for you.

I did say Bible, but only because its the book we happen to be on right now.

Ah... so age is what determines veracity? Why aren't you a pagan then? Or perhaps you prefer Zeus?

Perhaps I do.

Or maybe you think Islam is wrong because it stole from other religions eh? How come you aren't Jewish then? Heck, Christians stole the Jewish God!

Islam didn't steal anything, so much as it took previous beliefs and soiled them with Mohammed's self righteousness. It's like Jehovah's Witnesses even. They've taken the Bible and misinterpreted it.

Can you, right now, choose not to believe in God? I dare you to try it. Go ahead. Let me know when you do so.

I was previously an atheist.

[peewee's lovechild]

you're choosing to ignore what we're saying, not the opposite. Typical "I know everything, you got faith" answer from a non-believer.

If you want the truth, I responded about it on this very page. Only a child would honestly believe a choice to believe or not is still there if God revealed himself physically to humanity en masse.

WHAT?

Yea, okay.

[z0sa]

You didn't read my original post on the matter, did you?

I flat out said that the trinity bull is a ing cop out. No, no, no, no. The whole "spirit" thing is not the same as god coming down and saying "what's up" to his peeps.

And, you're using the bible as do entation of god making his presence known??

according to you, God revealing himself through his spirit is just not enough. Cool then, I'm done here.

[LnGrrrR]

I was previously an atheist.

Then it should be no problem for you to be such again, correct?

[peewee's lovechild]

Or unless it wasn't do ented to begin with...

It still doesn't prove that the event never took place...

You honestly think that god coming down from the heavens to make his presence known would go undo ented??

Honestly?

Come on, Pheno . . . you know better than to post something that weak.

[Dr. Gonzo]

If there really was a God would he let Jesus get dunked on like this?

[peewee's lovechild]

well they said that the satellite photos are very close to the specs stated in the bible.

Yea, I saw that on National Geographic.

It's pretty damn interesting. The historian in me really wants it to the The Ark.

However, realistically, it will probably be a let down.

I'm definitely intrigued, though.

[z0sa]

WHAT?

Yea, okay.

If God came down and made the world a peaceful, perfect place, what use is there of heaven? even you would be forced to believe in God if he physically revealed himself.

Its not that easy. You have to believe and have faith - you have chosen not to. Those who do, God reveals himself through the Spirit. Any true christian will tell you, again if its not good enough for you then deal with whatever consequences may come, if any (according to you). But don't act like you just don't understand the cir stances.

[z0sa]

Then it should be no problem for you to be such again, correct?

Why would I go back to not believing in God, when he has revealed himself to me as well?

[Phenomanul]

You didn't read my original post on the matter, did you?

I flat out said that the trinity bull is a ing cop out. No, no, no, no. The whole "spirit" thing is not the same as god coming down and saying "what's up" to his peeps.

And, you're using the bible as do entation of god making his presence known??

Why even bother stating it that way.... did you want a first hand account from Adam that he walked with GOD?

Of course, were such an account ever discovered would you go out of your way to try and discredit it as well... the mind only sees what its heart wants to believe... you've already made your choice perfectly clear.

Objectivity has never been an attribute of yours.... don't start pretending that you somehow possess it now.

[Borosai]

God's a flasher?

[peewee's lovechild]

according to you, God revealing himself through his spirit is just not enough. Cool then, I'm done here.

Yea, speaking of spirits is completely rational.

You're awesome.

Hey, the spirit of Davey Crockett is roaming the streets of San Antonio.

He wants to go on record that defending the Alamo was a mistake. Oh, and he misses Tennessee.

[Phenomanul]

Yea, I saw that on National Geographic.

It's pretty damn interesting. The historian in me really wants it to the The Ark.

However, realistically, it will probably be a let down.

I'm definitely intrigued, though.

Personally, I don't believe Noah's ark has endured throughout the centuries unscathed by the elements...

The Ark of the Covenant on the other hand...

[CuckingFunt]

If there really was a God would he let Jesus get dunked on like this?

Probably.

But I'm guessing he would have intervened before the retracted offer of help.

[z0sa]

Yea, speaking of spirits is completely rational.

You're awesome.

Hey, the spirit of Davey Crockett is roaming the streets of San Antonio.

He wants to go on record that defending the Alamo was a mistake. Oh, and he misses Tennessee.

You deny such a thing could exist? Then why ask for it, fool?

[peewee's lovechild]

If God came down and made the world a peaceful, perfect place, what use is there of heaven? even you would be forced to believe in God if he physically revealed himself.

Its not that easy. You have to believe and have faith - you have chosen not to. Those who do, God reveals himself through the Spirit. Any true christian will tell you, again if its not good enough for you then deal with whatever consequences may come, if any (according to you). But don't act like you just don't understand the cir stances.

It is that easy.

If "god" really wanted us to live in peace and harmony, all he would have to do is come down and say "I'm God. I'm ending all these petty religions right now. You've seen me, now believe in me. And, if you refuse, I'll cut you down."

I guarantee you that there would be world peace by the end of the day.

It really is that easy.

[z0sa]

It is that easy.

If "god" really wanted us to live in peace and harmony, all he would have to do is come down and say "I'm God. I'm ending all these petty religions right now. You've seen me, now believe in me. And, if you refuse, I'll cut you down."

I guarantee you that there would be world peace by the end of the day.

It really is that easy.

You're 15 I'm guessing?

I won't respond to a child's meanderings furthermore, besides this: God is justice and morality, and cutting down non-believers when Jesus died on the cross for them too, would be abhorrently immoral and unjust.

You want God to forcefeed himself down your throat, it'll never happen bro - that's why we're on this earth, for a choice, at least according to the Bible.

[LnGrrrR]

Why would I go back to not believing in God, when he has revealed himself to me as well?

You have stated that belief is a choice, correct?

If you really think so, then to prove your theory correct, it should not be hard for you to stop believing in him for a day, and then begin believing in him the next day.

[LnGrrrR]

You're 15 I'm guessing?

I won't respond to a child's meanderings furthermore, besides this: God is justice and morality, and cutting down non-believers when Jesus died on the cross for them too, would be abhorrently immoral and unjust.

You want God to forcefeed himself down your throat, it'll never happen bro - that's why we're on this earth, for a choice, at least according to the Bible.

I'm still waiting for the moral justification in reasoned measure of my previous post, regarding the logic of a God refusing to show himself to humanity demanding fealty and exacting retribution upon those who don't.

(Holy run-on sentence Batman!)

[Phenomanul]

You honestly think that god coming down from the heavens to make his presence known would go undo ented??

Honestly?

Come on, Pheno . . . you know better than to post something that weak.

Because human history has been flawlessly do ented to date? Yeah mea culpa!

I'm pretty sure 5,000 year old writings abound. The lives of every human being who has ever walked the earth are explicitly do ented... for without such do entation 'they' never really existed... How's your biographical log coming along? You wouldn't want people 100 years from now questioning whether or not certain events in your life ever took place...

You hear that? That's the sound of your strawman staggering to the ground.

[z0sa]

You have stated that belief is a choice, correct?

Correct, and as I knew you would be alluding to...

If you really think so, then to prove your theory correct, it should not be hard for you to stop believing in him for a day, and then begin believing in him the next day.

This is a straw man completely. Saying we have no choice in the matter is undermining the very premise of how one receives eternal grace.

Could I choose to not believe in God, and once again believe atheistically? Most definitely. But it would be foolish - God has revealed himself, so why act like he never did?

What I now believe you may be getting at, is whether or not I could possibly change religions - change how "God" is revealing himself (or themselves) to me. That, too, is my choice and most definitely I am capable of doing it.

Besides, even believers are met with "right and wrong" choices, both of them possibly seeming right and wrong at the same time, concerning God's justice, the proper worshipping of him, and other obvious issues - which is why there are conversions from religion to religion commonly, as opposed from atheist to religious.