Atheism on the rise in every single US state.

[z0sa]

I'm still waiting for the moral justification in reasoned measure of my previous post, regarding the logic of a God refusing to show himself to humanity demanding fealty and exacting retribution upon those who don't.

(Holy run-on sentence Batman!)

God has revealed himself to us without making the choice extremely explicit - and that's the only way it can be.

Like I've said, if God came down and cut you down for not believing, where'd the justice be? But where is the justice in many martyrs dying only because of their faith, while the murderers deny their God even exists?

I won't play like I know all the answers you want. I can assure you God will help me get you the answers I can.

[LnGrrrR]

Correct, and as I knew you would be alluding to...

This is a straw man completely. Saying we have no choice in the matter is undermining the very premise of how one receives eternal grace.

It is not a straw man if that is one of my criticisms of some strains of modern day religious creeds.

Could I choose to not believe in God, and once again believe atheistically? Most definitely. But it would be foolish - God has revealed himself, so why act like he never did?

And yet, God has not revealed himself to me. So why should I act like he has, and choose to believe?

As well, it would prove your point that you are able to change your beliefs. If you are sure of your beliefs, why not choose NOT to believe for a day? As you well know, you will be able to change your belief back the next day.

Besides, even believers are met with "right and wrong" choices, both of them possibly seeming right and wrong at the same time, concerning God's justice, the proper worshipping of him, and other obvious issues.

That would be what I mentioned in my first post, the aforementioned "choices that can lead to belief or disbelief".

For instance, I can choose whether or not to eat a grapefruit. I can not 'choose' whether or not to like the flavor of it.

[peewee's lovechild]

Why even bother stating it that way.... did you want a first hand account from Adam that he walked with GOD?

Of course, were such an account ever discovered would you go out of your way to try and discredit it as well... the mind only sees what its heart wants to believe... you've already made your choice perfectly clear.

Objectivity has never been an attribute of yours.... don't start pretending that you somehow possess it now.

No, pheno, it's nothing like that.

The tale of Adam and Eve is an allegory. You just have to know that by now. There was never a real Adam and Eve. To believe so is just ridiculous.

Let's say you're right. Let's say that god came down and hung out with Adam. That should be enough, right?

Wrong. Because if he did it once, why wouldn't he do it again? Why did he do it only with Adam?

I guess I'll rephrase it, god hasn't showed himself since the time man began do enting events.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Damn peewee. You are so smart.

[CuckingFunt]

These threads are hilariously futile.

[LnGrrrR]

These threads are hilariously futile.

I know this. And yet, I can not refrain. It is a character flaw, I feel.

[peewee's lovechild]

You deny such a thing could exist? Then why ask for it, fool?

I specifically asked for spirits to be left out, fool.

Fool is the one that thinks that there are invisible thingies about us making things happen.

So, since we're on the ridiculous topics of spirits, then I bring up Davy Crockett. And, he's much better than your god spirit because there is actual proof that Crockett existed.

[peewee's lovechild]

You're 15 I'm guessing?

I won't respond to a child's meanderings furthermore, besides this: God is justice and morality, and cutting down non-believers when Jesus died on the cross for them too, would be abhorrently immoral and unjust.

You want God to forcefeed himself down your throat, it'll never happen bro - that's why we're on this earth, for a choice, at least according to the Bible.

Yea, I'm 15.

Nice defense there.

Anyway, I'm sorry you can't see the simplicity of this god showing up and ending all that ails us, if it really is as omnipotent as the bible sells it.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Peewee is way too smart to believe in anything that can't be proved by doing a Google search.

[peewee's lovechild]

Because human history has been flawlessly do ented to date? Yeah mea culpa!

So, the do entation of human history is flawed, yet the bible is flawless??

I would love to bask in your genius one of these days.

[peewee's lovechild]

Like I've said, if God came down and cut you down for not believing, where'd the justice be?

And yet, that is exactly what god will do after the Rapture.

So, god is not just, using your rationale of course.

[peewee's lovechild]

Damn peewee. You are so smart.

I know, huh.

[I. Hustle]

I enjoy reading your re ed posts.

So, keep posting.

Then we are in agreement?!

agreement
Definition
Meeting of minds (or an evidence of mutual accord or understanding) between two or more legally competent parties, about their relative duties and rights regarding current or future performance. Although a binding contract can (and often does) result from an agreement, an agreement typically do ents the give-and-take of a negotiated settlement and a contract specifies the minimum acceptable standard of performance.

[peewee's lovechild]

Peewee is way too smart to believe in anything that can't be proved by doing a Google search.

Hahaha.

[z0sa]

It is not a straw man if that is one of my criticisms of some strains of modern day religious creeds.

But it is. In order to go to heaven, you must CHOOSE the religion. If he chooses buddhism and your Islamic, do you think he goes to heaven? Most likely not. Just like you can CHOOSE to deny God even exists. It's completely a choice.

And yet, God has not revealed himself to me. So why should I act like he has, and choose to believe?

So we agree that it IS a choice? You're completely right otherwise. Nothing forces you to choose Jesus, Allah and Mohammed, the Annunaki, or nothing at all.

As well, it would prove your point that you are able to change your beliefs. If you are sure of your beliefs, why not choose NOT to believe for a day? As you well know, you will be able to change your belief back the next day.

You say why not, and I ask simply why?

What you're saying to me is the equivalent of me asking you:

"Why don't you just believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible for a day?" and expecting you to truly believe and go to heaven. It's every man's decision for himself, I can't make it for you and God won't make it for you, which is basically what you and PeeWee are asking for.

That would be what I mentioned in my first post, the aforementioned "choices that can lead to belief or disbelief".

For instance, I can choose whether or not to eat a grapefruit. I can not 'choose' whether or not to like the flavor of it.

An interesting analogy. You're accepting the fact you or may not like the flavor of grapefruit, but your choice is whether to eat it or not. If you "eat" God's word, you may or may not like the flavor, yet the grapefruit (god's word) continues to exist whether you like its flavor or you don't. that grapefruit may taste like so much now, but it won't eventually (or when you're in heaven).

[z0sa]

And yet, that is exactly what god will do after the Rapture.

So, god is not just, using your rationale of course.

you're extremely far off

and that's if I even believe in the rapture, numbnuts. There's plenty of christians (possibly the majority) who don't.

[peewee's lovechild]

you're extremely far off

Dude, you just said god wouldn't kill non-believers because that wouldn't be "just". Yet, that is exactly what it will do after the Rapture.

So, using your rationale, god isn't just.

[jman3000]

religion threads are always a good read.

and they ALWAYS play out the exact same way.

[z0sa]

Dude, you just said god wouldn't kill non-believers because that wouldn't be "just". Yet, that is exactly what it will do after the Rapture.

So, using your rationale, god isn't just.

actually knowing what the I'm talking about, let me just say this:

you simply have no clue.

[I. Hustle]

religion threads are always a good read.

and they ALWAYS play out the exact same way.

I disagree! People that think like you are dumb.

[jman3000]

The atheist percentage will increase astromically right after the Rapture happens.
But soon after, that number will decrease again, as people turn to God and become former atheists.
End times harvest! Book it.

that is one of the creepiest posts i've ever read.

that smiley and the use of the phrase "Book it" puts it over the top.

[jman3000]

I disagree! People that think like you are dumb.

microcasm

[LnGrrrR]

But it is. In order to go to heaven, you must CHOOSE the religion. If he chooses buddhism and your Islamic, do you think he goes to heaven? Most likely not. Just like you can CHOOSE to deny God even exists. It's completely a choice.

Given your belief system, yes. Given my 'belief system' for lack of a better word, no. I do not think that 'choice' exists.

What you're saying to me is the equivalent of me asking you:

"Why don't you just believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible for a day?" and expecting you to truly believe and go to heaven. It's every man's decision for himself, I can't make it for you and God won't make it for you, which is basically what you and PeeWee are asking for.

And am I asking that you CHOOSE to disbelieve, yes? Yet you think you have this ability to turn your belief on and off, as if a lightswitch. I do not think anyone has that capability. Hence my argument with 'choice' being a necessity for heaven/ distinction.

An interesting analogy. You're accepting the fact you or may not like the flavor of grapefruit, but your choice is whether to eat it or not. If you "eat" God's word, you may or may not like the flavor, yet the grapefruit (god's word) continues to exist whether you like its flavor or you don't. that grapefruit may taste like so much now, but it won't eventually (or when you're in heaven).

Interesting that you saw it that way. But I meant it more like this: I can not CHOOSE to determine what the flavor of the grapefruit is, can I? I can choose to eat it. I can choose NOT to eat it. BUt I can not choose the flavor, or how my brain reacts to that flavor.

The same goes for religion. I can CHOOSE to pray, I can choose to go to religion, I can choose to do any number of religiously-themed events. However, the actual BELIEF in a higher being is not a spontaneous decision, but an outlook that is determined through numerous other actions. The same goes for other strongly-held personal beliefs.

[scott]

Why do chicks love Jesus?

They know he'll again.

[peewee's lovechild]

actually knowing what the I'm talking about, let me just say this:

you simply have no clue.

Okay.

Davy Crockett says "Hi".