F'n AJ

[Obstructed_View]

No, Bowen's a lock because he was at worst the third most important player in getting the last three les; definitely the second most important for getting the 2003 ring and arguably #2 in getting the 07 le.

Yeah, Bowen's value is higher than AJ's is, but that's not a knock on either of them. AJ helped to turn around a team that was a perennial playoff flop. There may not have been the other if not for the one.

[I. Hustle]

OK look I didn't mean to turn this into a let's hate AJ thread. I was being funny and I thought that the first person to respond was being sarcastic which is why I followed it up with the

I was always for retiring AJ's jersey I just didn't care for what he said about us being on the decline. It's like hear David or Sean say it. I think during his time here he was more than just a "role" player. I really did not expect this type of response.

As for comparing him to Mario Ellie I mean C'mon... C'MON!

[baseline bum]

Yeah, Bowen's value is higher than AJ's is, but that's not a knock on either of them. AJ helped to turn around a team that was a perennial playoff flop. There may not have been the other if not for the one.

AJ entered the team as a complete scrub and came out a top-10 PG by the time '98 or so rolled around. Anyone over the age of 20 should know how important AJ was to the Spurs.

[I. Hustle]

To say that Bruce doesn't deserve it is bull too. I mean when people think Spurs they think defense. He was the only one that was able to lock down players the caliber of Kobe and LeBron. That alone is worth it.

[poop]

AJ helped to turn around a team that was a perennial playoff flop. There may not have been the other if not for the one.

you are seriously delusional, AJ was PART OF the perennial playoff flopping teams. a guy name TIM DUNCAN was the one who turned the team around and made the underachieving end. also in '99 mario elie was a significant part of toughening up the team and its mentality. AJ was certainly NOT a significant factor in getting the team over the hump.

[Obstructed_View]

you are seriously delusional, AJ was PART OF the perennial playoff flopping teams. a guy name TIM DUNCAN was the one who turned the team around and made the underachieving end. also in '99 mario elie was a significant part of toughening up the team and its mentality. AJ was certainly NOT a significant factor in getting the team over the hump.

You've already made numerous posts to show how little you know about this subject. You're just beating a dead horse at this point.

[meestahmeestah]

Shocking how few of you were Spurs fans when AJ played. Your ignorant comments give you away.

point guards I would take before AJ if a pick-up game happened and I could pick from anyone up until AJ's fourth and last stint as a Spur:

James Silas
Johnny Moore (pre-spinal meningitis)
John Lucas
Rod Strickland
Maurice Cheeks
Johnny Moore (post-spinal meningitis)

, I would see if Jud Buechler or Jon Sundvold wanted to roll at point before I'd pick AJ. At least those dudes could shoot a little.

So, you can take your "waahh, I've been a Spurs fan longer than you so that makes me a super-fan!" at ude and cram it down on the end of the bench with Chris Whitney.

[baseline bum]

you are seriously delusional, AJ was PART OF the perennial playoff flopping teams. a guy name TIM DUNCAN was the one who turned the team around and made the underachieving end. also in '99 mario elie was a significant part of toughening up the team and its mentality. AJ was certainly NOT a significant factor in getting the team over the hump.

AJ was FAR better than Mario vs Minnesota, LA, and Portland. Mario did step his game up bigtime against the Knicks though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Tarkanian was right. He had no business being a starting PG in this league. The only reason why he was even passable was because of having the best frontcourt of the last 20 years.

Making one shot in the finals doesn't make up for all the backbiting and mediocrity. The defection to Dallas was just insult to injury.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

AJ entered the team as a complete scrub and came out a top-10 PG by the time '98 or so rolled around.

Defensively: nope he lacked size and lateral quickness. he was consistently a liability on defense.

Offensively: outside of the championship season, he never had a jumpshot. even in that season, he was only able to shoot on one spot on the floor. that was where he shot the 'game winning' shot against NY. his assist:TO ratio was pedestrian. he certainly did not have the quickness to create his own shots. He was able to run the offense and that was about it.

Leadership: we got marketing spammed this constantly about the 'Little General.' But he was referred to as a snake in the grass by a teammate and when Malik Rose told him off during the 200 season during which AJ was sucking major ass, the Little Asshole attacked Rose in the shower.

Robinson listened to him and respected him but what was telling to me is that he went off to Dallas to play his last few years for less than he was making here. That tells me that Duncan didn't want him.

Quite frankly Johnson's skillset is about the same as Vaughn's but at least Vaughn isn't an asshole and Vaughn is a better defender.

Are you saying that Vaughn is a top 10 PG?

[GSH]

When the Spurs won their first Championship, AJ got up and talked about... AJ.

When David Robinson's jersey got retired, AJ got up and talked about... AJ.

When the Mavs won, AJ talked about... AJ.

When the Mavs lost, AJ talked about... the Mavs players.

He's an overrated, irritating, egotistical, back-stabbing, piano-keys-for-teeth, troll doll. He was a mediocre point guard, at best, and I honestly don't know if he was ever any better than Jacque Vaughn was this season. Now that they've retired his jersey, they might as well go ahead and retire Vinny Del Negro's too.

[ATXSPUR]

The AJ hate on this thread is ridiculous. He coached against us in 2006. Get over it. I don't know why you guys are so surprised. He's pointing about something that has been evident since game two in the Laker series last year. Anybody that didn't have their head in the sand saw what would happen this season coming from a mile away then.

[GSH]

The AJ hate on this thread is ridiculous. He coached against us in 2006. Get over it. I don't know why you guys are so surprised. He's pointing about something that has been evident since game two in the Laker series last year. Anybody that didn't have their head in the sand saw what would happen this season coming from a mile away then.

I would guess that most of the AJ hate has nothing to do with this thread, or the comments he made recently. I know mine doesn't. The talk about him being a mediocre point guard is due to the fact that he was a mediocre point guard. And the rest is because he is an asshole, and he seriously looks like a ing troll doll.

I don't give a damn if he said the Spurs weren't as good this post-season. I would hate AJ if he was doing the local weather. And his jersey hanging in the rafters next to David's and Gervin's is a travesty.

[baseline bum]

Quite frankly Johnson's skillset is about the same as Vaughn's but at least Vaughn isn't an asshole and Vaughn is a better defender.

Are you saying that Vaughn is a top 10 PG?

I have seen a lot of ridiculous things posted on ST, but that takes the cake. Congrats!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have seen a lot of ridiculous things posted on ST, but that takes the cake. Congrats!

Hey at least I can back up my stance. AJ was not a very good defender. He wasnt very good at penetration and he was a horrible jump shooter.

At the end of the day he was nowhere close to being a top 10 PG in the NBA. At the end of the day that is pretty much Vaughn's skillset except Vaughn can defend.

I remember guys like Hardaway, Stockton, MArbury, Payton, Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Terrell Brandon and pretty much any decent point guard raping him time after time. Thats why it was so great to see Tony dominate a guy like Payton because Johnson allowed him to abuse us for years.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The AJ hate on this thread is ridiculous. He coached against us in 2006. Get over it. I don't know why you guys are so surprised. He's pointing about something that has been evident since game two in the Laker series last year. Anybody that didn't have their head in the sand saw what would happen this season coming from a mile away then.

I have hated AJ long before he was a Mav. I don't even know or care what he said.

[baseline bum]

Hey at least I can back up my stance. AJ was not a very good defender. He wasnt very good at penetration and he was a horrible jump shooter.

At the end of the day he was nowhere close to being a top 10 PG in the NBA. At the end of the day that is pretty much Vaughn's skillset except Vaughn can defend.

I remember guys like Hardaway, Stockton, MArbury, Payton, Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Terrell Brandon and pretty much any decent point guard raping him time after time. Thats why it was so great to see Tony dominate a guy like Payton because Johnson allowed him to abuse us for years.

Did you also remember the time AJ raped a PG trio of Kidd/KJ/Nash in the playoffs? 20.5 PPG on 65% shooting with 6 assists a night ring a bell? The next series against Stockton he had 15 and 6 assists on 56% shooting. What a scrub. How about when he dropped 19.5 a night on Terrrell Brandon in the 99 playoffs on 59% shooting? Or when he outplayed a young Stoudamire in the WCF back when Damon was considered a top PG? I'm sure Jacque Vaughn has done that; could you please provide me the link? AJ wasn't good at penetration? Have you never seen the guy play? He got lots of points going to the basket and putting in that scoop shot. And where do you get this Parker dominating Payton idea? In their playoff matchups he's had 3 good games and 4 of the worst showings of his career against Payton. You're only remembering what you want to remember, and you have nothing to back your hatred except mistaken recollections.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Did you also remember the time AJ raped a PG trio of Kidd/KJ/Nash in the playoffs? 20.5 PPG on 65% shooting with 6 assists a night ring a bell? The next series against Stockton he had 15 and 6 assists on 56% shooting. What a scrub. How about when he dropped 19.5 a night on Terrrell Brandon in the 99 playoffs on 59% shooting? Or when he outplayed a young Stoudamire in the WCF back when Damon was considered a top PG? I'm sure Jacque Vaughn has done that; could you please provide me the link? AJ wasn't good at penetration? Have you never seen the guy play? He got lots of points going to the basket and putting in that scoop shot. And where do you get this Parker dominating Payton idea? In their playoff matchups he's had 3 good games and 4 of the worst showings of his career against Payton. You're only remembering what you want to remember, and you have nothing to back your hatred except mistaken recollections.

I have watched the guy play plenty. The only time he got to the bucket is if someone was late on a rotation or took stupid pills and tried to go over a screen

All AJ did against Stoudamire was turn in to a chucker trying to prove a point. He still couldn't shoot. The only good game he had that series was the last one when he decided to stop chucking 15 shots a game or more likely Pop got into his ass.

The 'top 10 pg' had career highs of 13 points and 8 assists. According to you his pinnacle year was 1999 when he went 10/7. Vaughn has tops of 18/7.

Both are spares.

[baseline bum]

I have watched the guy play plenty. The only time he got to the bucket is if someone was late on a rotation or took stupid pills and tried to go over a screen

All AJ did against Stoudamire was turn in to a chucker trying to prove a point. He still couldn't shoot. The only good game he had that series was the last one when he decided to stop chucking 15 shots a game or more likely Pop got into his ass.

The 'top 10 pg' had career highs of 13 points and 8 assists. According to you his pinnacle year was 1999 when he went 10/7. Vaughn has tops of 18/7.

Both are spares.

So how did he score 20PPG and shoot 65% against Kidd/KJ/Nash if never had a jumper and couldn't get to the basket? When did Vaughn ever put up 18 and 7? At Kansas?

[Obstructed_View]

point guards I would take before AJ if a pick-up game happened and I could pick from anyone up until AJ's fourth and last stint as a Spur:

James Silas
Johnny Moore (pre-spinal meningitis)
John Lucas
Rod Strickland
Maurice Cheeks
Johnny Moore (post-spinal meningitis)

, I would see if Jud Buechler or Jon Sundvold wanted to roll at point before I'd pick AJ. At least those dudes could shoot a little.

So, you can take your "waahh, I've been a Spurs fan longer than you so that makes me a super-fan!" at ude and cram it down on the end of the bench with Chris Whitney.

So a hypothetical that requires a time machine somehow cons utes a solid argument to you? The fact that you are a competent name-dropper doesn't mean you know what the you're talking about.

[poop]

AJ = Jaque Vaughn.

same exact skillset. play Vaughn with David and Tim for 40 minutes and he would get 10 and 7 too.

he never 'got us over the hump', that concept is ridiculous and anyone whose been watching the spurs for a while would know that. with him as our leader, we were soft and constantly underachieved. with him as Dallas's coach, they were soft and constantly underachieved. so much for the 'great leader' arguement that was supposed to override his mediocre stat lines.

bottom line, his jersey hanging up there with David, Gervin, etc. is a joke. if we retired his we may as well have retired Malik Rose's and del negro's too.

[Gervin44Silas13]

THey SHOULD Have Given #6 to Manu AJ!!

[Gervin44Silas13]

So a hypothetical that requires a time machine somehow cons utes a solid argument to you? The fact that you are a competent name-dropper doesn't mean you know what the you're talking about.

Don't forget Greg Sutton.....

[Gervin44Silas13]

point guards I would take before AJ if a pick-up game happened and I could pick from anyone up until AJ's fourth and last stint as a Spur:

James Silas
Johnny Moore (pre-spinal meningitis)
John Lucas
Rod Strickland
Maurice Cheeks
Johnny Moore (post-spinal meningitis)

, I would see if Jud Buechler or Jon Sundvold wanted to roll at point before I'd pick AJ. At least those dudes could shoot a little.

So, you can take your "waahh, I've been a Spurs fan longer than you so that makes me a super-fan!" at ude and cram it down on the end of the bench with Chris Whitney.

Don't Forget Greg Sutton....Tom Copa...Monty Willams??????

[Spurminator]

Should I feel weird for being indifferent about all of this?