Reply With Quote
I know I think the refs were bad last game, but this game made up for that so Dallas fans got to complain and now that don't anymore, got that BUDDY
powpow!
I know I think the refs were bad last game, but this game made up for that so Dallas fans got to complain and now that don't anymore, got that BUDDY
Does anyone even have the replay of the play?
I can't tell if it was a phantom foul. dont remember play.
it was a late whistle though.
Mavs lose = the refs got it right!
Mavs win = they were bailed out!
Nah, it was a good call. I wouldn't hold your breath if you're expecting the league to openly admit a up like last game, since it wasn't.
Hand checks, moving screens, clear-outs in the lane, over the back on rebounds... I don't understand the damn game anymore. Seriously, about half the time I can't find any connection between the calls (and no-calls) and what's happening on the floor. And now you have to try and figure out what is a flagrant and what isn't - and that probably makes the least sense of all.
I'm still a Spurs fan, but I can honestly say that I am approaching the point where I am not an NBA fan. It's kind of hard to reconcile those two, but I'm getting tired of watching something that feels more like the WWF than the game of basketball.
Really what it reminds me of is those gymnastic floor exercises in the Olympics, where there's a lot of dancing around, but it's all just a set-up for a few exciting athletic moves. And the judges are shamelessly biased in favor of one team.
But for the guy ing about that one call - there were plenty to go around. Just before that one, on the other end, Nowitzki was trying to get to a long rebound, and K-Mart damn near pulled his arm out of socket holding him back. It was out in the open, and an official was standing nearby. There's no way he could have missed it. Anybody who wants to get pissed off about the officiating has all the evidence they need. The officiating this whole season has been piss-poor. But the playoffs have taken that to a totally new level.
Dirk cried as soon as the shot went up and Javie watched the ball to see if it was going in. As you mentioned, he blew the whistle about the time the ball hit the ground.
It is a very hard game to officiate. The official must make a split second decision while at the same time, understanding the flow of the game, the intent of the play, the situation, etc., etc.... A foul is not always a foul believe it or not.
If you think every foul should be called, then it would be a crappy game. If your guy steals the ball and while throwing it to a wide open teammate for a dunk...you don't want the ref calling a slight slap to the arm of your guy making the pass. You want him to let it go so you get the easy dunk.
Sometimes players get calls, sometimes they don't. Refs have to decide what to call in the heat of the moment.
Refs are taught to have a late whistle. You have to "see the whole play" to see if a foul call makes sense. If a pass goes errant because of a foul....late whistle is needed. If the pass goes where it was intended to go....it is OK to pass on the foul call.
It is a tough job and a thankless job.
At the NBA level, it is near impossible. The players are so skilled and so physical. There is actually a foul just about every time down court if you want to get technical. The refs job is to keep it as fair as possible and call that which affects the play. Also, refs have to tighten up when things get heated and let them play when they can or when the players show them that they want to play basketball instead of push and shove.
I hate it when they don't show a replay on a critical play in the game or only show one from a bad angle.
Tutorial on how to embed youtube here (post #2):
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99116
There are some truths in what you're saying, but a lot of it is also horse . I know you didn't invent it - it's a well-worn excuse. But it's a coat of whitewash that gets poured over an awful lot of poop-stains. It's an inescapable fact that rookies don't get the same "respect" as veterans when it comes to foul calls. And there are superstar players who get way more than their fair share of that same "respect" from the referees. And whether you like it or not, that filters down to their respective teams.
I don't think anybody expects (or wants) every little foul to be called. But let's start with what goes on in the paint. That's a small enough area for the refs to focus on. I've got a pile of clips of guys standing in the paint for 7-8 seconds, not even pretending to be guarding anyone. How the does that happen, with an NBA-level ref on the spot? I can tell you that certain players are much more likely to get by with it than others, and they're not the ones earning the vet minimum.
I get sick of watching the same group of refs call ticky-tac fouls when one guy goes into the paint, and on the other end watch a mugging without blinking. When a player goes into the paint, it's a point of focus for the refs - they can't "not see" what happens. And when a guy with hands the size of dinner plates takes the ball up with both hands, and the ball suddenly goes flying, and you can clearly see that the defender didn't get a hand on the ball? There's a foul there. Every time. That guy didn't just drop a ball that fits his hands like a big grapefruit fits yours. I watched that happen in one of the Houston-Laker games so many times it made me want to puke.
Too often these NBA refs directly control the ebb and flow of games. They kill momentum and allow teams back into the game. They call some fouls "on the floor" and give shooting fouls on the other end. They suddenly call 3-seconds, or moving screens, and kill the offense of one team, possession after possession. As if a team that has been operating like a machine for 30 minutes suddenly becomes a bunch of bumbling idiots.
Yeah it's a tough game to call. And they get paid a lot of ing money to do it. This season has been the worst, most inconsistent I have ever seen. And I'm not talking about Spurs games... I'm talking about the whole league.
I didn't say they did a great job! I just said it was a really hard game to officiate! I wouldn't want to do it!
As for superstars getting calls, I can kind of see how this happens. I'm not excusing it, but the refs are human.
As a high school referee (admittedly way below NBA level !), we get to know some of the players and learn their pet moves, get a feel for their ability, etc.... NBA refs see the same guys every night and do a lot more research on players than we could ever do. They know who the best players are and frequently (maybe unfairly) give them the benefit of doubt on close calls.
Even in high school games where we know a certain player is all-state and being guarded by a guy who isn't known at all....and there is a close call.....in the back of my mind....I'm thinking...."did I miss that call?" Did the all-state player foul or not? Subconsciously you expect the better players to make plays and they may get the benefit of doubt on a close call. I try not to do it, but you can tell who the better players are after about 5 minutes on the court.
Player's reputations do follow them as well. If we are briefed in the pre-game that one of the players has been involved in two fights this season and plays a very rough game.....you can bet special attention will be given to this player! Maybe it is a rival game and we know it needs to be called tight early so it never gets out of hand......that is a part of officiating. If we know one coach likes to bully younger less experienced officials....we know not to take anything he says personally. He is testing us. Give him one warning, he'll be OK. If we know the coach is just a hothead....be prepared to handle it.
If a player or coach really pisses me off during a game by saying or doing something out of line......next time there is a close call......chances are it will go against them! It may not be right, but it is human nature. I'm sure it happens in the NBA.
As for the ebb and flow of games....If I look up at the scoreboard and I see the home team has 2 fouls and the visitor has been whistled 10 times.....in the back of my mind.....I start kind of "looking" for a few fouls on the home team. It's not to even things up, which shouldn't be done since some teams foul more than others....but you don't want one team with 22 fouls and another with 3 either! You can come up with something to kind of "even it up" without actually "evening it up!"....if you can understand that....it is hard to explain.
I'm just saying... I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to officiate an NBA game.
Last edited by dav4463; 05-12-2009 at 02:30 AM.
Here is another way to look at it.
Referees get paid a lot of money. They shouldn't miss calls.
Well, Tim Duncan gets paid a lot of money. He shouldn't miss free throws.
Nobody's perfect.
i wish SOMEONE would show some kind of replay because in live action it looked like he didn't even get touched.... denver was about to come down court and break the mavs hearts once again.
You've actually done it - that carries a lot of weight and respect. I'll man up and say that I never have.
I have a couple of good friends that are NCAA refs. We've dented a bottle of Crown or two while discussing this subject. The best I can say is that they have both become... skeptical?... of the commercial influence on the state of play in the NBA.
It is a thankless, difficult job. And you know what a close fraternity it is, because refs are constantly getting pounded from both sides. (One of my favorite sayings, "How can we be biased against both teams at the same time?") So you can probably appreciate how difficult it is for one referee to question another, at any level. The phrase I remember most was (more or less) "They started down a slippery slope a long time ago." The implication was that they have slid further along that path.
I know the game well enough not to expect perfection, or even perfect consistency. But when the game becomes too inconsistent, it loses its integrity. The NBA has "guided" its referees over the years, in order to encourage certain styles of play. And highlight reels sell tickets and advertising. If that's not a slippery slope, I don't know what is.
Slippery slope? ....David Stern? You want to keep your job?
I still can't buy that because I know he didn't want the Spurs and Pistons to win championships!
It sure does seem slanted towards the big-market teams though doesn't it?
The rules were changed to hurt guys like Bowen. I think that sucks. The league wants the superstars to be able to drive to the basket more. I hate that. It favors teams who aren't good on defense. The Spurs and Pistons were disadvantaged by the rule changes.
I would like to think that it's on the up and up, but that Stern fellow is one slimy character!
I thought Mavs should have lost last night and won the other game, but I know Mavs fans think a different way
Mavs loses=the refs hate them and the NBA hates them
Nuggets win=the refs didn't get it right
don't be blaming other fans for doing the same if mav fans do it as well
usted un hija de 1,000 perras, tan usted es un puta tambien.I thought Mavs should have lost last night and won the other game, but I know Mavs fans think a different way
Mavs loses=the refs hate them and the NBA hates them
Nuggets win=the refs didn't get it right
don't be blaming other fans for doing the same if mav fans do it as well
Just out of morbid curiousity was there a link posted anywhere to that clip? I was side tracked posting here at the time. Actually I was halfway watching it but not concentrating enough to see the foul. I just saw dirk fade on a jumper with kenyon in front of him, the shot miss, then the whistle blow, I think...
+100000
This is the problem, we don't know what is and what isn't a foul anymore in the league. I see big man gettin hacked on the lane and nothing called, and then someone whispers something on Wade or LeBron and it's a foul. There is an inconsitency, from night to night, from player to player, from play to play, that makes it very hard to be objective about the game anymore.
Yes Dirk probably got bailed out, but yes he could have gotten calls before that he didn't and at the end of the day how often do you see LeBron or Kobe drive, miss, and then get a foul called on them????
The mere fact we are even discussing the refs after every game is a clear sign.
one birdman away from bringing out the brooms.....
what ifs are fun, but in the end, they are just what ifs.....and hold no water or substance worth a
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
