Torture Hearing on CNN live..

[Yonivore]

Soufan directly contradicts Kiriakou -- and also Bush and Cheney. Soufan was there. He got significant results using traditional techniques.

EIT's were used on Zubaydah by contractors without any experience in intelligence or interrogation, before the procedures had been legally approved. As soon as they began, Zubaydah clammed up.

Soufan calls EIT's "inefficient, slow and unreliable.


All of that is newsworthy IMO. Did you fake reading it, Yoni?

I say Obama should de-classify and release the memos then. It'll will answer the questions.

And, so far, you have one man's opinion on the effectiveness of EIT's.

According to what's been reported thus far, KSM responded within 2 minutes of being waterboarded.

I'd say that's efficient, quick, and (apparently) reliable.

Without the memos, we can't really say who's reliable...the Democrats' cherry-picked witness or what's been reported by people who were present during the times when all three prisoners were waterboarded.

[Yonivore]

where?

I don't remember.

[clambake]

I don't remember.

you mean you can't even give us "one man's account"?

[Yonivore]

you mean you can't even give us "one man's account"?

It's been at least a week and I've slept since then. Don't worry, if I come across it again, I'll put it here.

[ChumpDumper]

I have no idea.

That's for sure.

And, as for your interpretation of the Geneva Convention, if the prisoner just sits there and refuses to answer? Or, as did KSM, simply resonds, "You'll see."

What would you recommend?

As I said, I would let the trained, experienced interrogators do their job. Clearly they were not allowed to do so.

There is an entire field manual and existing methodology developed over decades used for interrogation by the military and the FBI.

Why was it so important to hire "contractors" who based their experimental methods on -- well, you just said you have no idea?

[Yonivore]

you mean you can't even give us "one man's account"?

Found a reference and, it was "Soon you will find out."

...Justice Department memo of May 30, 2005. It notes that "the CIA believes 'the intelligence acquired from these interrogations has been a key reason why al Qaeda has failed to launch a spectacular attack in the West since 11 September 2001.' . . . In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including [Khalid Sheik Mohammed] and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques." The memo continues: "Before the CIA used enhanced techniques . . . KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, 'Soon you will find out.' " Once the techniques were applied, "interrogations have led to specific, actionable intelligence, as well as a general increase in the amount of intelligence regarding al Qaeda and its affiliates."

Tell me Chump...does the CIA have experience interrogators?

[Yonivore]

That's for sure.

So, I guess you know upon what the CIA based their decisions?

As I said, I would let the trained, experienced interrogators do their job. Clearly they were not allowed to do so.

There is an entire field manual and existing methodology developed over decades used for interrogation by the military and the FBI.

Why was it so important to hire "contractors" who based their experimental methods on -- well, you just said you have no idea?

And you would have gotten thousands killed.

I'm glad Pelosi and Schumer weren't willing to compromise our techniques back when they were being used.

[clambake]

show me the east asian operatives.

[ChumpDumper]

Tell me Chump...does the CIA have experience interrogators?

If they were that experienced, why did they need a contractor to tell them what to do?

Furthermore, the CIA specializes in collecting, analyzing, and interpreting intelligence. The FBI, on the other hand, has a trained investigative branch. Until that point, we were complimenting each other’s expertise, until the imposition of the “enhanced methods.” As a result people ended doing what they were not trained to do.

Any experience they may have had was ruled moot by the direction of the contractors whose methods were based on -- according to you -- nothing.

[ChumpDumper]

So, I guess you know upon what the CIA based their decisions?

In this case, outside contractors told them what to do.

Is that your idea of CIA expertise?

And you would have gotten thousands killed.

Prove it.

[Yonivore]

If they were that experienced, why did they need a contractor to tell them what to do?

Because the contractor was an expert at the techniques?

Any experience they may have had was ruled moot by the direction of the contractors whose methods were based on -- according to you -- nothing.

Not what I said but, if you find it easier to misconstrue the conversation...have at it.

I said I had no idea because, well, I'm not sure I have the clearance necessary. Nor do you.

It's like Vice President Cheney said, if were in the torture business, we wouldn't have bothered seeking guidance from the Justice Department.

Look, I'm convinced the enhanced interrogations techniques worked.
It's reported that it saved lives.
I'm okay with it...and nothing that's been reported thus far gives me pause.

I don't know what you hope to gain by badgering.

[Yonivore]

In this case, outside contractors told them what to do.

Is that your idea of CIA expertise?

So, where did the whole Justice Department involvement come in?

Prove it.

I trust Vice President Cheney on this. He's seen the evidence Obama refuses to release.

Ask the President to release the memo.

[clambake]

if i were them, i would have said "east asian operatives"........oh...wait.

[Yonivore]

if i were them, i would have said "east asian operatives"........oh...wait.

That's because you're an idiot.

[Yonivore]

Oh, and Chump, what do you think was the background of those contractors?

[clambake]

Oh, and Chump, what do you think was the background of those contractors?

i think they are experts in making up garbage like "east asian operatives".

[Yonivore]

i think they are experts in making up garbage like "east asian operatives".

Okay, did the Justice Department just create a bunch of memos so you'd have something to rail on now? Why were they involved if the CIA just called in a bunch of hairy-knuckled contractors to torture the detainees?

Your allegations don't fit the facts.

[ChumpDumper]

Because the contractor was an expert at the techniques?

Based on what?

Look, I'm convinced the enhanced interrogations techniques worked.
It's reported that it saved lives.

I don't know what you hope to gain by badgering.

With you, I'm just exposing your monumental ignorance.

It's fun.

[ChumpDumper]

So, where did the whole Justice Department involvement come in?

You do know the FBI is part of the Justice Department, right?

Oh, you don't.

Because you are ignorant.

Be more specific here.

I trust Vice President Cheney

[Yonivore]

Based on what?

Well, the memos Obama did release said the techniques were effective.

With you, I'm just exposing your monumental ignorance.

It's fun.

Glad to amuse.

You're kind of like an 18-month old that continues to laugh at a funny face. It just doesn't get old, does it?

[clambake]

Okay, did the Justice Department just create a bunch of memos so you'd have something to rail on now? Why were they involved if the CIA just called in a bunch of hairy-knuckled contractors to torture the detainees?

Your allegations don't fit the facts.

no, thats what you concoct when you rule your people with fear.

[Yonivore]

You do know the FBI is part of the Justice Department, right?

Oh, you don't.

Because you are ignorant.

Be more specific here.

The guidance that was sought from the the Attorney General's office.

And, yeah, I know where the FBI resides. I'm sorry you're too ing stupid to get the reference.

[Yonivore]

no, thats what you concoct when you rule your people with fear.

Were you afraid?

[clambake]

Were you afraid?

nah, i know what they're doing when they make up like "east asian operatives".

gotta watch my team get stomped.

find me some of those "east asian operatives" while i'm gone. thanks.

[Yonivore]

nah, i know what they're doing when they make up like "east asian operatives".

gotta watch my team get stomped.

find me some of those "east asian operatives" while i'm gone. thanks.

Then, where's the fear?