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i wouldn't worry much if i'm on the Lakers' side either ... they play better when their backs are against the wall and they have to win ... as much as i hate them , i still think they'll win it all this year ...
Notice the difference in the post game comments
“I’m not (worried),” Jackson said. “There’s nothing to worry about. We are just going to go out and play and it’s our homecourt and it’s what we play for.”
The Rockets, however believe they have proved enough to no longer be doubted.
“I’ve stopped trying to figure this team out,” Battier said. “When you think we’re down and out, this team comes with an unbelievable effort. We might not have the most talented team, but there is not a team with more heart in this entire league. We’ve shown it again, and again, and again, and again.”
“In a seventh game,” he said, “anything can happen", Rick Adleman.
"'Five Dollar Foot-long' is one of the best songs," Artest said. "That's a hot song. You've got the FreeCreditReport.com, and then 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on. When 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on, they should play that in the club. They should play all those in the club", Ron Artest
i wouldn't worry much if i'm on the Lakers' side either ... they play better when their backs are against the wall and they have to win ... as much as i hate them , i still think they'll win it all this year ...
"'Five Dollar Foot-long' is one of the best songs," Artest said. "That's a hot song. You've got the FreeCreditReport.com, and then 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on. When 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on, they should play that in the club. They should play all those in the club", Ron Artest
OK
Gasol in the three seasons prior to breaking his ankle at the 2006 WC:
144-102 (.586)
three first round exits
Kobe in the three seasons between Shaq and Gasol
121-125 (.492)
two first round exits
one lottery trip
It's interesting that you deliberately skew the seasons in order to leave out Memphis' 2006-07 season where they went 22-60 despite Gasol playing most of that season, ankle injury or not in the previous season's playoffs, and yet you include the Lakers 2004-05 season where they dealt with a bunch of injuries to the starters plus two coaching changes.
It's also interesting that when you first put up stats, you also included playoff wins, but now you leave that out since Gasol's Grizzlies didn't win one single playoff game in three tries.
Don't forget how the Lakers got Kobe Bryant. Before the draft, Kobe and his agent announced that it didn't matter who drafted him, he wouldn't play for anyone other than the Lakers. Charlotte went ahead and drafted him anyway, thinking he would play, but wound up trading his rights to the Lakers for Vlade Divac. There is a myth that they wanted a center and drafted Kobe to get Divac, but it's bull . They thought Kobe would play for them, but he and his agent made it clear that he wouldn't. It was almost 4 weeks after the draft when they finally gave up and took the deal with LA. (Vlade had a couple of decent seasons in his career, but mostly he was about a 12 point, 9 rebound guy.) The Lakers didn't even have to give up their own first round pick that year, which is where they got Derek Fisher.
That same year, they threw $120 million at Shaq, which was unheard of money, so they didn't really miss Vlade all that much. If that's not reminiscent of the Yankees, I don't know what would be.
When Shaq decided he wanted out of LA, they traded him for Caron Butler, Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, and a first round pick - which is where they got Jordan Farmar. Caron Butler got traded for Kwame Brown, who then got traded for Pao Gasol. Not a bad haul, considering the only way any of it could happen was by paying $120 million for Shaq. There is a lot of similarity to the Yankees in there.
And don't forget the year that Karl Malone and Gary Payton both signed with the Lakers on the cheap. Very reminiscent of players signing with the Yankees for the privelege of wearing pinstripes.
The Lakers situation may not be precisely the same as the Yankees, but there are enough similarities that you can't bash the post too badly.
OK, add in the 22-60, that would make the Grizzlies 164-164 (.500) for the 4 years. Still better than Kobe's record without Shaq or Gasol. Kobe would have 4 playoff wins to zero for Pau. Mind you, we're comparing the Lakers and the Grizzlies.
I'm not trying to make a case that Pau is better than Kobe, only that the poster that claimed that Pau is overrated and only looks good playing with Kobe is badly mistaken. Pau's accomplishments with a team that never won more than 23 games before he arrived compare favorably with Kobe's accomplishments with a diminished Lakers squad.
GSH,
I realize all those things. But, it still isn't comparable to the Yankees. This past MLB off season, the Yankees signed CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, and AJ Burnett all in the same off-season without having any restrictions to do so like the CBA and salary cap does for the NBA. That would be like the Lakers this off-season signing Chris Paul, Chris Bosh, and Gerald Wallace without having to give up anything but draft picks. It's just not comparable, imo. Lakers are still restricted in how to acquire talent in ways the Yankees aren't. If the Lakers draft talent or acquire talent cheaply, then they can keep them by extending them contracts with Bird Rights. But, the Yankees don't have draft talent or discover diamonds in the rough in order to acquire them by over-paying them.
Last edited by JamStone; 05-15-2009 at 05:32 PM.
Add 22-60 and take away 50-32 (2003-04 season) since your initial post specifically said take the previous three seasons. And, then you have a Grizzlies team that had a 116-130 (.472) record with one playoff appearance in three years and zero playoff wins or playoff series wins.
And, why does it matter you're comparing Lakers and Grizzlies when that 2004-05 Lakers team was clearly on the rebuild after trading away a HOF player and letting its HOF coach walk, while Memphis had a more stable core of players that had been together longer at that point than that now rebuilding Lakers team?
In fact, look at the 2007-08 season, in which Gasol was traded to the Lakers.
2007-08 Memphis Grizzlies: 13-31 with Pau Gasol in the line-up
2007-08 LA Lakers: 30-16 even before trading for Pau Gasol
Your main argument is fine. How you tried to support it with skewed numbers was not.
Fair enough. Yankees are worse. But the Lakers are probably the closest thing in the NBA. Cuban has gone a long way towards buying a team. Isiah Thomas tried to do it, but he was just too stupid to make it work. The difference is that LA is also an endorsement goldmine for top players. Between that and outright spending, they have a significant advantage. But you're right - they still had to make some pretense of observing the cap when they did the Gasol trade. Steinbrenner just opens his checkbook.
Still... $120 million for Shaq? In 1996? It's hard not to think of Steinbrenner. And you need to keep in mind that you don't have to buy nearly as many players in basketball.
He says don't worry, but I wouldn't want to clean the caca stains on his tightie whities from last night!
2 playoff appearances in three years. 5 fewer regular season victories than the Lakers and 4 fewer playoff victories.
My main argument did not include any mention of Pau's record with the Griz, only the records of the pre-Gasol and post-Gasol Lakers. That data was not shaded or skewed in any way. And that argument stands on its own merit.
You asked for a comparison of Pau w/o Kobe to Kobe w/o Gasol and we took a journey down a rabbit hole. I don't think comparing the Griz and the Lakers in the time period from the Shaq trade to the Gasol trade is particularly illuminating, but it was a fun little diversion.
My point was and is that Kobe had marginal team success in the time between Shaq and Gasol. The poster who claimed that Pau was overrated and was only having team success because of Kobe was wrong and ignored the fact that Kobe has only had team success since Pau's arrival. Without the Gasol trade the Lakers are not a 65-win championship contender.
That is sig worthy LOL"'Five Dollar Foot-long' is one of the best songs," Artest said. "That's a hot song. You've got the FreeCreditReport.com, and then 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on. When 'Five Dollar Foot-long' comes on, they should play that in the club. They should play all those in the club", Ron Artest
i think they're very comparable in the sense that money will allow both teams (Yankees and Lakers) to put arguably the most talented product on the court or field . if that's what you are trying to say then i agree 100% ...
Rockets have a chance if they turn into the bigger TV draw over the Lakers. Cinderella brings lots of suitors.
Well what do you know? That dance version of 5 dollar foot long could get some play in clubs.
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