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It's the going rate for dumb asses like Cuban that will probably die broke and without a championship, and the Knicks, all time kings of the dufus front office 10 years running.
I agree, anyone but L.A.
As far as your comment, too vague to understand. I guess you are on a higher level of intelligence, so perhaps this thread is not worth your time. Good day.
It's the going rate for dumb asses like Cuban that will probably die broke and without a championship, and the Knicks, all time kings of the dufus front office 10 years running.
He's one of the best pick and pop players in the NBA. He knows the EXACT point where he needs to go to in order to set the pick for the guard or wing player that has the ball, and he knows EXACTLY the spot to go to for his shot, and he's smart enough to "roll" to the hoop for an easy layup if his defender tries to overplay him and beat him to his jumper spot. He's also a sneaky shotblocker at head height or lower, averging 0.7 in 17+ minutes.
Kurt is the best or second best rebounder of the bigs, the second best shooter behind Bonner, the best or second best pick setter, and the second best shotblocker behind Tim. Four million is not too much for a full NBA toolbox like that.
no, for just about everyone.
turiaf makes 4+ mil. kwame brown make 4 mil. diop makes 6+ mil. nazr makes 6+ mi. humpries, najera, veal and bonner make 3+ mil. mikki moore is coming off a 5+ mil deal. evans makes 5 mil. battie about 6 mil. joe smith is coming off 4+ mil. gadz is still making 6+ mil. foster is making 6 mil. zaza makes 4 mil.
sorry you disagree, but that doesnt make you right.
Uh, no Cuban's going rate is $10M for Ericka Dampier. Paying KT $4M is a ing BARGAIN compared to that.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusmi...t=9&team=Spurs
Kurt Thomas was the worst +/- player on our roster against Dallas. I know, I know, the matchup was not right. BS. Who are we trying to match up with, an old folks home rec league team? Who can Thomas match up with in the Western Conference playoffs? Convince me on that one, I'd love to see it.
Nothing wrong with someone appreciating KT as a player or a person. Just don't live an illusion that he is still effective in the league to the tune of $4 million at age 37.
If you want to keep a veteran big man Thomas is the one you want. If it's at all possible to move Bonner and Oberto it's a no brainer. Bonner can't be taught new tricks. Asking him to be what he isn't is ridiculous. Oberto should retire for health reasons.
and vaughn was the best. your point?
Shaq? Yao? Denver with all of their bigs? Portland? LA? We'd need some beef and muscle in any of those series.
Dallas would be one of the few BAD smallball-type playoff matchups for Kurt. Judging him for a ty TEAM playoff series of 5 games seems a bit harsh.
Vaughn played all of 2 mins. That's like saying he got a basket in 2 min, therefore he scores 48 points per 48 mins, laughable.
Shaq? Yao? Duncan is more than adequate to deal with them. Anyone can come in and give 4-5 quick fouls, even me. I see your point about trying to match up with LA and Denver bigs, but KT against Nene, K-Mart, Gasol, Odom or even bird man I would hate to see. He might do okay against Bynum, but only because he is playing awful right now.
Shaq? Yao? Duncan is more than adequate to deal with them.
Of course we want rid of those two also. Raise your hand anyone that wants to keep Oberto or Bonner. Silence except for the crickets...
So you want to get rid of all three bigs and replace them with whom?
For how much?
thats kinda my point. not the sharpest tool in the shed are we...
We actually tried to play Thomas a few minutes but he got run off the court was mine. I noticed that Vaughn had the highest playoff +/-, but didn't think someone that was both sharp and a tool would bring that up.
Then trying to come back and say I'm the dufus was even better.
Obviously if we got rid of Oberto, Bonner, and KT we need a couple more bigs. Point is, most of us want rid of them all, but that likely won't happen. It would be nice to get someone like Rockweed Wallace and rid of 2/3 of them though.
Rockweed for the MLE perhaps. Bird man at the LLE.
Sorry I missed your question at first, I got worked up over the fellow that actually thought I wanted a roster with TD and 12 smurfs.
I just saw on NBA.com, article dated may 6, Wallace wants $8 million. That is not too far off from the MLE, so maybe it can work.
Update: Wallace, who becomes an unrestricted free agent this offseason, plans to retire if he doesn't receive a contract worth $8 million per season, according to Slam Online. Analysis: It's hard to imagine a team paying a 34-year-old power forward with diminishing skills a contract worth $8 million per. If Sheed lowers his demands, he could catch on with a contender, but there's a good chance we have seen the last of the outspoken big man.
The MLE may be the best offer that Wallace gets, so he is possible from a dollar perspective. The LLE will not be nearly enough for Birdman.
I see you've taken a few lumps in this thread and I won't pile on except to say that, in boxing terms, you are well behind on points. What does occur to me is that if you wanted to start a thread about an aging Spurs big man who is paid beyond his production, why not use Oberto? He produced far less for almost the same money and you would have had an easier time sustaining your position.
I'm not so sure about Birdman, hard to say what he gets. The $3.8 million Thomas is getting probably would have done it. Instead I think (per Bruno analysis) that we need to wait to see what Finley does b4 we even know about having the full MLE. Bleah.
Exstatic gave a great analysis of KT's game, that I don't disagree with at all, except that he time warped back 5+ years and described his game back then. I hope KT proves me wrong, but I don't think we will get anything out of him on the court in 09/10. I am aware that KT is a savvy veteran that has/had some game.
6 foot 9 dudes that do layups when wide open under the rim, enough already!
Right, every stat I quoted was from last year. I watched somewhere between 70 and 75 regular season games from last year, so I think I have a pretty good handle on his abilities. His current abilities, that is. I never watched him 4-5 years ago, so I have no idea what he did back then.
Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter, of why you dislike KT: he doesn't dunk enough, and EVERYONE knows that dunks are worth four points and layups only two...oh wait, no they're not.
I'll come right out and say it: KT probably couldn't jump over two phone books. Yet somehow, he has a higher rebounding rate than Tim, Amare or Shaq. I'll tell you how he does it: he's smart, and smart doesn't age. Do you really think he's going to jump less high this year than last?
We may have to agree to disagree, but the analysis in post 32 of this thread was spot on and described KT's game this season. I am no expert, but I have been to nearly every home game for the last five years, so I am at least a very interested observer. KT missed training camp and started slow, but from January on, he was very good. Check out the numbers from his game log, especially his shooting percentage and rebounding numbers. His production for 20 minutes a night was fine.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...g?playerId=846
Also, as to the discussion of his merits as a post defender, I would also have to side with those who were critical of your opinion that Tim could handle Shaq and Yao by himself. KT was a much better defender against the biggest centers in the NBA. The best example is the March 8th game against the Suns. Check the play-by-play. Tim was in the game against a smallball Suns line-up at the beginning of the 4th. When Shaq checked in, Pop replaced Tim with KT. The move worked as the Spurs went on a run that didn't end until Shaq was pulled from the game. The Suns fed the post on several consecutive possessions and got nothing except 2 miss Fts from Shaq. KT's defense was excellent.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playby...meId=290308024
Now you are missing my point Mel. Shaq is like 38, are we really worried about him and Phoenix? I don't mind having Thomas, I just don't think 17.8 minutes per night + an awful playoff performance = $4 million well spent. Could he really have gotten that contract somewhere else?
There is no right answer here, you are en led to your opinion of course.
...We actually tried to play Thomas a few minutes but he got run off the court was mine. I noticed that Vaughn had the highest playoff +/-, but didn't think someone that was both sharp and a tool would bring that up.
Then trying to come back and say I'm the dufus was even better.
im tempted to just leave this to you mel, but i guess im a gluten for punishment. you missed the point again it seems. mentioning anyones +/- rating over a 5 game series is boardering on mental deficiency. +/- is barely usuable when you have a substantial sample size. and even then its still horribly flawed (notice bonner led us in +/- during the regular season).
we disagree on KT, and thats fine (to each their own), but to cite +/- over such a small sample size as a definitive reason is almost akin to citing his jersey number as the problem.
Let's replace KT with Pops, still get kicked out of the playoffs in the first round because he has no clue what our defensive rotations are, and call it progress. At least we'll get to see a dunk or two.
Your point as stated in your OP
Can't agree with that. Labeling KT as the poster child for what ails the Spurs is unfair and misplaced. The contract that KT signed was probably slightly below market value and, yes, there were other clubs interested. His performance this year was at least as much as the Spurs expected and if he were a FA he would attract interest from many contenders in the NBA.
Using hindsight is always convenient, but usually unfair. You could make the argument that the Spurs would be better off right now if they had 4M to spend as they choose rather than having KT. But decisions are made in the context of the information available at that time. In the summer of 2008, coming off their 2008 playoff run and looking ahead to integrating Ian into the big rotation, the Spurs had decisions to make. KT for 2 yrs, 8M fit perfectly with their needs at the time and with their overall plan to have maximum payroll flexibility leading up to the summer of 2010.
Finally, the nice people who run this forum basically allow anyone with an internet connection and an e-mail address to join and begin posting. Unlike many other boards, they impose no restrictions on new members and even allow them to start threads immediately upon joining. That doesn't make it a good idea. The search function works quite well and would have pointed you here:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...35#post3347935
You could have expressed your opinions about KT along with those of other members.
This is just my 2 cents, but most threads started by new members seem to be trolls or adolescent attention-seekers. Based on your posts, I don't think you fall into either category, but if you start a thread with a strongly worded opinion like this one you must expect to hear from the other side. And I think you earn respect when you yield to well-stated opposing opinions. Most of the initial responses to your OP were quite tame and well-supported and you have stuck with your original take. That is, of course, your right. Just have a thick skin and don't take opposing points of view as attacks on you.
OK, off my soapbox. Look forward to reading your views on the Spurs.
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