Back up off of Manu

[superjames1992]

Manu is pretty much a lock for the HOF. If it were the NBA Hall of Fame, then there's no way he gets in. But it's the Basketball Hall of Fame, so with the body of work that he has, there's no way he does not get in.

Manu is more likely a HOFer than Tony. Tony needs to continue to score over 20 points per game and play well if he hopes to be a HOFer because he does not have many international accolades. I think Tony will end up in the Hall of Fame if he continues to play like he has been for another five years or so, but he still has plenty of work to do. Manu could retire tomorrow and be a virtual lock.

[ducks]

manu is a lock because of what he did outside the nba
the les with the spurs help but without them he would still get in

[Mel_13]

well, the only thing we can do is just sit back and wait. we'll see then.

You identify yourself as European, so I would assume you have knowledge of the great European players of recent history.

These are the three male international players inducted this decade:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Dalipagi%C4%87

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dino_Meneghin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Petrovi%C4%87

Are you saying that Manu's accomplishments are not comparable to these recent inductees?

[Mel_13]

manu is a lock because of what he did outside the nba
the les with the spurs help but without them he would still get in

finally something we absolutely agree on

[ElNono]

I see you think very highly of him. But Manu in Hall of Fame?!?!?!

LOL, you suck at this basketball thing.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

FIBA Hall of Fame

Sergei Belov
Alexander Belov
Emiliano Rodriguez
Fernando Martín
Radivoj Korać
Dražen Dalipagić
Krešimir Ćosić
Dražen Petrović
Mirza Delibašić
Ivo Daneu
Pierluigi Marzorati
Nikos Galis
Amaury Pasos
Oscar Furlong
Teófilo Cruz
Bill Russell

Candidates

Oscar Schmidt
Ubiratan Pereira Maciel
Wlamir Marques
Waldemar Blatskauskas
Ruy de Freitas
Marcel de Souza
Edson Bispo dos Santos
Antonio Salvador Sucar
Affonso Évora
Alfredo da Motta
Jatyr Eduardo Schall
Carmo de Souza "Rosa Branca"
Carlos Domingos Massoni "Mosquito"
Zenny de Azevedo "Algodão"
Dragan Kićanović
Zoran "Moka" Slavnić
Vlade Divac
Predrag Danilović
Dejan Bodiroga
Aleksandar Đorđević
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Bob Kurland
Rūdolfs Jurciņš
Jānis Krūmiņš
Valdis Muižnieks
Maigonis Valdmanis
Valdis Valters
Georgios Kolokithas
Panagiotis Giannakis
Fanis Christodoulou
Panagiotis Fasoulas
Modestas Paulauskas
Šarūnas Marčiulionis
Arvydas Sabonis
Juan Antonio San Epifanio
Francesc "Nino" Buscató
Ivan Mrázek
Jiří Zídek Sr.
Raymond Dalmau
Juan "Pachin" Vicens
Eddie Palubinskas
Andrew Gaze
Ruperto Herrera
Pedro Chappe
Jacques Bachayani
Koutrach Tarif
Dino Meneghin
Žarko Paspalj
Gennadi Volnov
Vladimir Tkachenko
Detlef Schrempf
Rik Smits
Miki Berkovich
Mieczysław Łopatka
János Greminger
Leo Rautins
Manuel Raga
Oscar Moglia
Nicolás Lapentti
Awwad Mfadi Haddad

Manu is fitting to first list here and not second one.

[pjjrfan]

I see you think very highly of him. But Manu in Hall of Fame?!?!?!

He'll make it. Manu qualifies on what he has done for Argentina and in for his European play and his play in the NBA won't hurt him at all. Rick Barry was on the ticket a long time ago and he spoke about the HOF that they should have one for the NBA only becasue the current Hall is for pro, college, and foreign players.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

He'll make it. Manu qualifies on what he has done for Argentina and in for his European play and his play in the NBA won't hurt him at all. Rick Barry was on the ticket a long time ago and he spoke about the HOF that they should have one for the NBA only becasue the current Hall is for pro, college, and foreign players.

He does not qualify base on his European play no. National team yes. European play? I think not even close. He will make it but not for his European play that is for sure.

[DAF86]

He does not qualify base on his European play no. National team yes. European play? I think not even close. He will make it but not for his European play that is for sure.

Euroleague championship, Euroleague MVP, Italian championship and Italian league MVP plus he was selected as one of the 50 most important contributors to the Euroleague (or something like that) I think he would make it with only his Europe resume.

[Solid D]

He does not qualify base on his European play no. National team yes. European play? I think not even close. He will make it but not for his European play that is for sure.

If you look at Euroleague play, Manu is already high on the list (top 35 with no individual ranking given to players).

Manu is a joy to watch and one gets the impression he could play blindfolded and get by for a while just on instincts and his 6th sense on the court. Praising Manu does not take away from other players like Duncan, Parker, or his opponents. Coming from an old-time NBA connoisseur, Manu's flair is unique and his creativity in passing the basketball is in the Bird, Maravich, Magic, and Cousy class.

Put away the hate and enjoy Manu for what he is...and for as long as you can. You are blessed to be able to watch an artisan at work. He's a gift to basketball.

[Sean Cagney]

Damn I miss Spurs bball and Manu already, him not being there just ate me up inside and I was not nearly as excited for these playoffs as I have been in past years off the strength of Manu being out Get well man.

[urunobili]

If you look at Euroleague play, Manu is already high on the list (top 35 with no individual ranking given to players).

Manu is a joy to watch and one gets the impression he could play blindfolded and get by for a while just on instincts and his 6th sense on the court. Praising Manu does not take away from other players like Duncan, Parker, or his opponents. Coming from an old-time NBA connoisseur, Manu's flair is unique and his creativity in passing the basketball is in the Bird, Maravich, Magic, and Cousy class.

Put away the hate and enjoy Manu for what he is...and for as long as you can. You are blessed to be able to watch an artisan at work. He's a gift to basketball.

Solid D

[bigfan]

As I read someplace, its the Basketball HoF, not the NBA HoF. Manu is a lock. Re: his status on the Spurs, Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce have done enough to remain on the Spurs for their careers if they so chose (and the money isnt stupid).

[rascal]

Other than to rile up ducks with absurdity, I'm not going to get into the Tony vs Manu idiocy. I for one are glad they're both in our team behind TD.

Isn't it "on" our team not "in" our team.

[ElNono]

Isn't it "on" our team not "in" our team.

Thank you

[kace]

well, manu should be there in the Hall of fame.

he was not only in teams who won euroleague, italian cups and championship, NBA les and olympic les, he was one of the major if not THE major player of these teams. with multiple MVP awards in europe and international compe ions.

there's no doubt about it.

but what is a little bit annoying is that it seems that in this thread, either you're a groupie and manu can't do bad, or you're a hater and he's bs.

he's a great great player. but still, he has stamina issues, more than ANY other star of his level in this league. if you think Pop limit him more than tony or tim for pleasure, you're blind. he does that because he thinks manu can't provide 35 mpg of his best bball in a 82 games + PO season. nobody's perfect.

[Mel_13]

well, manu should be there in the Hall of fame.

he was not only in teams who won euroleague, italian cups and championship, NBA les and olympic les, he was one of the major if not THE major player of these teams. with multiple MVP awards in europe and international compe ions.

there's no doubt about it.

but what is a little bit annoying is that it seems that in this thread, either you're a groupie and manu can't do bad, or you're a hater and he's bs.

he's a great great player. but still, he has stamina issues, more than ANY other star of his level in this league. if you think Pop limit him more than tony or tim for pleasure, you're blind. he does that because he thinks manu can't provide 35 mpg of his best bball in a 82 games + PO season. nobody's perfect.

Why Pop does things is known only to him and you should give up on the assertions that you know his thoughts. He uses all his players in the way he thinks best to produce wins. Comparing his minutes to Duncan is ridiculous. Manu's game does not lend itself to resting while on the court, Tim's does.

[manufan10]

If you look at Euroleague play, Manu is already high on the list (top 35 with no individual ranking given to players).

Manu is a joy to watch and one gets the impression he could play blindfolded and get by for a while just on instincts and his 6th sense on the court. Praising Manu does not take away from other players like Duncan, Parker, or his opponents. Coming from an old-time NBA connoisseur, Manu's flair is unique and his creativity in passing the basketball is in the Bird, Maravich, Magic, and Cousy class.

Put away the hate and enjoy Manu for what he is...and for as long as you can. You are blessed to be able to watch an artisan at work. He's a gift to basketball.

[kace]

Why Pop does things is known only to him and you should give up on the assertions that you know his thoughts. He uses all his players in the way he thinks best to produce wins. Comparing his minutes to Duncan is ridiculous. Manu's game does not lend itself to resting while on the court, Tim's does.

OK. Find me another NBA player of the same level than manu (we're talking about stars/ borderline superstars) who has average in his career as few minutes as manu.

and also, i would really like to know what is this mysterious strategy that use Pop in limiting manu's PT but which is not because he thinks manu can't play at the same intensity 35 mpg. i'm very curious to hear you on that one.

[TMTTRIO]

Well yeah maybe Manu can't handle a lot of minutes like the other stars but at the same time you have to stop and think how much non stop basketball has Manu played all of these years with all of his teams and not had a break to relax unlike a lot of the other players. I think that's part of a reason also that Pop watches Manu's minutes otherwise he probably would've broken down sooner. I'm surprised he's lasted this long without getting any serious injuries with all the playing that he does since everyone seems to think he's so fragile. Not saying it's good but something to also keep in mind.

[manufan10]

Well yeah maybe Manu can't handle a lot of minutes like the other stars but at the same time you have to stop and think how much non stop basketball has Manu played all of these years with all of his teams and not had a break to relax unlike a lot of the other players. I think that's part of a reason also that Pop watches Manu's minutes otherwise he probably would've broken down sooner. I'm surprised he's lasted this long without getting any serious injuries with all the playing that he does since everyone seems to think he's so fragile. Not saying it's good but something to also keep in mind.

I think that is a big time factor in Pop's decision to monitor his minutes. People act like monitoring minutes is a bad thing.

[manufan10]

Kepted? Hmmm...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd call all of you re ed who are suggesting that we trade Manu (Ducks would be first in line). However, that would be an insult to re ed people.


We'd never get equal value for Manu right now. Trading Manu would be trading away any chance of a 5th le.

[Mel_13]

OK. Find me another NBA player of the same level than manu (we're talking about stars/ borderline superstars) who has average in his career as few minutes as manu.

and also, i would really like to know what is this mysterious strategy that use Pop in limiting manu's PT but which is not because he thinks manu can't play at the same intensity 35 mpg. i'm very curious to hear you on that one.

First off, I don't pretend to know why Pop does what he does. You have come to a conclusion that is consistent with the facts. That does not make it correct. Your conclusion represents your opinion, nothing more. I have no problem with your opinion. You may well be correct. I have a problem when you say any other conclusion means the other person is blind.

Let me give an example:

Fact 1: Tony Parker gets fewer assists than other elite point guards

Fact 2: Pop runs an offense that does make his PG into a pass-first PG

Conclusion consistent with the above facts: Pop uses Tony is this way because he knows he does not have the ability to be pass-first PG.

That conclusion fits the facts. I would argue that it is also wrong. My conclusion is that Tony runs the offense exactly the way Pop wants him to. And I further conclude that Pop utilizes Tony in this way because he believes it gives the Spurs the best chance to win.

I believe the same applies to Manu. Pop utilizes him in a way consistent with what he believes maximizes the Spurs chances of winning. As you stated, Manu cannot play at maximum intensity for 35mpg. That does not mean he could not play 35mpg. My conclusion, also an opinion consistent with facts like yours, is that Pop uses Manu on the 2nd unit and limits his minutes because he wants maximum intensity for every minute he plays. As I noted above, Tim does not play at maximum intensity for every minute he plays. He paces himself throughout the game and plays more minutes. There is no reason to believe that Manu could not do the same.

Just as Tony averages fewer APG than other elite PGs, Manu averages fewer MPG than other elite players in the NBA. It could be because of some limitation in their games or physiques or it could be by design to create the best possible team. With respect to Manu, you apparently believe the first, I believe the second. I have not called you blind or labeled you a hater for your opinion. The same tone on your part would be appreciated.

[Bukefal]

but what is a little bit annoying is that it seems that in this thread, either you're a groupie and manu can't do bad, or you're a hater and he's bs..

Im dealing with the Church of Manu in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I dont hate him, I dont hate him at all, I think he is a great player, I dont think he is BS. Of course he is good. I just dont think he deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame and I dont think he is a superstar. I think he is a bit overrated, since he isnt really that wonderful to begin with and has never been + he cant make minutes + he simply does not have superstar potential + he has injuries alot, alot and again; alot. and he is getting old.

Maybe only in the Argentine or European hall of fames..