Fact 2: Pop runs an offense that does make his PG into a pass-first PG
yes tp passes ball first but it goes to duncan or manu
then they get the assist
if tp played for the pacers he would get more assist due to the o system
duncan passes wonderfully if he did not tp would have more assist also
You're certainly en led to your opinion.
However, don't get upset when your opinion is called out basically because it has no credibility.
Another example: "he's injured a lot", makes no sense. In 12+ years as a pro, this is the first time he misses half a season and the playoffs. Tracy McGrady is "injured a lot".
I don't think the Church of Manu has much to do with facts.
mmmm... the hate is strong in you! it gives you focus... it made you stronger...
You're agreeing with me.
I used the TP example to show that someone can look at a set of facts and come up with a conclusion that is consistent with those facts and still be wrong.
I agree with you that Tony's assist numbers are a product of the offensive scheme and do not indicate anything negative about his passing skills.
I gave you the links to the profiles of three most recent male international inductees to the Basketball Hall of Fame. Do you believe that Manu's resume is not equal or superior to those actual members of the HOF?
I'm not in any COM, but I can objectively compare several sets of accomplishments.
WOW. All this long argument to just come to this:
even in a very boring and sometimes pedantic way, i'm happy you agree with that.Manu cannot play at maximum intensity for 35mpg
I dont get upset, reallyits just my opinion, so have you your opinion. thats nothing to get upset about.
Saying a player cannot play at maximum intensity for 35MPG is NOT the same thing as saying a player lacks stamina.
Short and concise enough?
Yeah I do, manu is not equal to them. This discussion can go on and on and on and on. It doesnt matter. We'll see what happens with Manu. I like him and I hope everything works out for him with the spurs, if not, somewhere else.
Agree. Manu is way over rated on this site. He is not an all star player but more of a 2nd level or borderline star that doesn't get big minutes.
The spurs can definitely win without him depending on who they get back in a trade.
He has been injured alot recently and going forward the recent past is important.
Exactly, that was also a part of my point yesterday. At the moment, spurs is nothing without superstar parker. But spurs can do good, even without Ginobili. He is not a key for us, we are good without him. thats why i said; he is not even so good as people think he is. we dont need him so bad and he is definitely not a superstar. So I would consider trading him if things are not getting better.
If the spurs can make a package that includes Manu to get Bosh then they can win with Bosh and some other factors working out like the emergence of Hill as a combo guard in the next couple of years.
Which is why the Spurs need to wait. His value can increase quite a lot, but can't fall very much. At the trade deadline, they will know much more about the health of Tim and Manu and can make a better decision on whether to trade Manu, extend him, or allow his contract to expire and use the cap space.
The time may come when the best possible move for the organization will be to trade Manu. I just think this summer is not that time.
rascal found a new bf in Bukefal
Agree, if Bosh or other Gasol-type opportunity is offered, then trading Manu this summer makes sense. The big problem with Bosh is being able to extend his contract and still have enough money to pay Tony.
that's why i am here! You're welcome
He's one of the only basketball players to have won a gold medal, NBA championship, and Euroleague championship. Pretty incredible if you ask me.I just dont think he deserves a spot in the Hall of Fame
Manu is clutch, a champion, and is all heart. He's one of the top guys in being productive with the minutes he receives. As much as I don't like Hollinger, his stats have shown that if he played more minutes he would have Kobe esque like stats. With the minutes that Manu plays he is as efficient as Kobe, yet Manu plays less minutes.
The way this team is designed, they really needed Manu Ginobili. Someone said that they can win without him, but going by their record, they really can't.Consider these issues: 1. The Spurs are 32-11 when Ginobili plays but only 17-16 when he's out.
I believe the Spurs would have to have the right deal to come along in order to trade away Ginobili. A Bosh deal or Carter or something of that nature. I love Manu, and I think he's a great player. However, my allegiance is to the Spurs not to a player. (Even if my screen name indicates otherwise.) It would be foolish of the Spurs not to listen to offers if it makes them better. However, Manu is a great player and that can't be overlooked by a year marred by injury. What did Manu do after an injury filled, plus the foul on Dirk in 2006? He came back better and stronger, and the Spurs won the championship in 2007. What happened the next year? Manu came out even better than he was in 2007. His compe ive drive is amazing and I see him having a great year next year. It will be with the Spurs.On a per-40 minute basis, Ginobili averaged 25.1 points, 6.2 rebounds and 5.8 assists, and did it with the fourth-best TS% among shooting guards. Those numbers are awfully similar to those of the guy who won the MVP award -- in fact, it was Ginobili, not Bryant, who was first among shooting guards in PER.But on a per-minute basis, few players can touch him. Ginobili hit 40.1 percent of his 3s, had one of the highest free-throw rates at his position, ranked seventh among guards in rebound rate, was in the top 10 among shooting guards in both blocks and steals per minute, and shot 86.0 percent from the line. His only negative stat was a subpar turnover ratio; in pretty much every other phase he was one of the 10 best players at his position.
I think the Spurs can do just as well without Tony as with Manu.
Actually, this season, the Spurs were 8-2 during the stretch in which Parker was injured. That's a better record than they had over the course of the season.
When Manu was out injured, the Spurs were 17-16.
I disagree with your assessment.
the way the spurs are built is the big three have to have healthy
spurs without tp with mason running point
duncan an manu healthy
would be 1-82
without duncan and manu
tp beat mavs and portland back to back
...and then TP settled back down to earth the next game against Cleveland (in SA) and went 3-16 with 6 assists. Spurs 86-Cavs 97. Tony knows he can't win consistently without Timmy and Manu.
Hey Bukefal, so you think that a guy that won the NBA championship, the Olympics and the Euroleague (accompanied by MVP awards in two of those 3 tournaments, and coming one vote away of getting the other MVP) is less deserving of the Hall of Fame than three guys that combined have one gold medal in the Olympics to show for? Yeah, your opinion sure makes a lot of sense.Yeah I do, manu is not equal to them. This discussion can go on and on and on and on. It doesnt matter. We'll see what happens with Manu. I like him and I hope everything works out for him with the spurs, if not, somewhere else.
Why don't you give it a rest and realize that maybe on this subject you didn't know as much as you thought?
Let me ask you this: have you even saw Manu play before this season?
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