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Boring.
Tim Duncan, in 2009, became the first player in history of basketball to be named either an All-American (college) or All-NBA player for 15 consecutive seasons.
1995 to 2009.
Tim # 1
Boring.
Now we're stretching it....
Nope:
1995 = 3rd team AP All-American
1996, 1997 = 1st team AP All-American
1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 = 1st team All-NBA
2006 = 2nd team All-NBA
2007 = 1st team All-NBA
2008, 2009 = 2nd team All-NBA
Tim started young, he was only 18 years old in 1995.
How about best FORWARD ever?Best Power Forward ever...no compe ion
I don't see how anyone can argue Bird ahead of Duncan at this point.
Given that Duncan is the only player in NBA history to have made All-NBA in each of his first 12 seasons, this "record" seems gratuitous.
In looking at some history, though, I wondered if Kareem Abdul-Jabbar didn't have a claim here. And he would have if he hadn't missed out on being All-NBA in 1974-75. How he missed out on being All-NBA that year is beyond me. He only played in 65 games and his team was under .500, but his numbers that season are just insane. He averaged 30.0 ppg (3rd in the league), 14.0 rpg (5th in the league), 4.1 apg, and 3.3 bpg (1st in the league). He was good enough that on a crappy team, he finished 5th in the MVP voting. (of course, he was behind 3 other guys who played center). That guy, in today's game, would be a nearly-unanimous 1st Team All-NBA player.
Even if Kareem made All-NBA in 1975, he would have only tied Duncan with 15 straight, because Kareem missed in 1982 as well. He would have been 1967-1981.
McAdoo beat Kareem out for 1st team. He averaged 34.5 pojnts per game and 14.1 rebounds, playing all 82 games. The Braves were 49-33 and McAdoo won the MVP.
2nd team all-NBA center was Dave Cowens.
Cowens lead the Celtics to a 60-22 record, tied for best in the NBA. Cowens averaged 20.4 points, 14.7 rebounds, 4.6 assists, shot 47.5%, with 1.1 blocks.
Kind of a weak pick becasue Cowens only played 65 games.
He was the leading scorer and rebounder for the best team in the NBA.
Cowens only played 65 games, so I agree, this is a weak pick.
Last edited by Galileo; 05-18-2009 at 06:52 PM.
Seems we have a few here who do not appreciate Tim as much as when he was leading us to 4 NBA Championships. Some are apparently bored with his outstanding accomplishments. So I say to Tim, do the right thing and give them 4 Championship Trophy's to, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I dunno, maybe the Dallas Mavettes or maybe divide them up between the Mavettes and the Phoney Sunettes. Yes, that is the ticket. Now that Pop knows how the fans feel about Timmy, maybe he'll do the right thing for the Spurs and the fans and trade Timmy for someone like Kenny Thomas of the Kings whose stats just flat overwhelm Tim's stats. That should make everyone happy!!!tic
I'm with you on that one!!
Lebron is the best forward ever
Wait some years! He has no championship yet, only 1 MVP!
Well...but they are two different kinds of players. Although I'm not saying that you're wrong, the way I like to rank players is in these categories
-point guards
-2s and 3s
-and then big men or 4s and 5s
I'm not sure who you're directing that comment towards, but I think it's silly to suggest that those who don't fall over at some of Galileo's absurd "records" and ridiculous "statistical analysis" of Tim Duncan are unappreciative of Tim Duncan.Seems we have a few here who do not appreciate Tim as much as when he was leading us to 4 NBA Championships. Some are apparently bored with his outstanding accomplishments. So I say to Tim, do the right thing and give them 4 Championship Trophy's to, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I dunno, maybe the Dallas Mavettes or maybe divide them up between the Mavettes and the Phoney Sunettes. Yes, that is the ticket. Now that Pop knows how the fans feel about Timmy, maybe he'll do the right thing for the Spurs and the fans and trade Timmy for someone like Kenny Thomas of the Kings whose stats just flat overwhelm Tim's stats. That should make everyone happy!!!
I don't think appreciating Tim Duncan's greatness requires manufacturing "records" to illustrate the point. And a refusal to buy into manufacturered records does not suggest that anyone is bored with Tim Duncan.
Tim Duncan holds the record for being the only swimmer to survive a hurricane and play college and NBA ball.
He also holds the record for being alive and reaching 18 years old the fastest.
Well there's no way he's catching up with Mutombo playing 30 or 40 seasons.
I agree that Lebron is one of the greatest forwards ever. He is on track to approach Bird and Duncan for career achievements. He has a long way to go however, since he has 0 rings, 1 MVP, and only 3 times 1st team All-NBA.
It looks to me like he will get a ring and a Finals MVP this year.
However, a lot of players have had burst of dominence, he needs to keep it up for another 5 years.
Forwards still way ahead of him for career accomplishments include:
Scottie Pippen (6 rings, 3 1st team selections)
Elgin Baylor (10 1st team selections)
Karl Malone (2 MVPs, 11 1st team selections)
Bob Pet (1 ring, 2 MVPs, 10 1st team selections)
John Havlicek (8 rings, 1 Finals MVP, 4 1st team selections)
This analysis does not even include all-star game selections, 2nd team selections, all defensive team selections, and other lesser but important accomplishments.
Ask yourself this:
Is Lebron James really better than Elvin Hayes?
OK, if you take the word "consecutive" out, which players have a total of 15 all-NBA and/or all-American seasons?
Not many.
Kareem 18 (3 college)
Shaq 16 (2 college)
Bob Cousy 15 (3 college)
Jerry West 15 (3 college)
That's it.
And before you demean college basketball, remember that it is very important for Hall-of-fame voting. Also, through most of basketball history, college basketball has been more presigious than pro basketball, and even today it is really only its equal in fan popularity.
I live in Madison, WI. We have pretty much zero interest here in pro basketball. The Bucks are not very popular. Even back in the days of Kareem and Sidney Moncreif, pro basketball was all that popular here. Most fans like the Badgers, some like Marquette, many like Big Ten basketball, and high school basketball is probably as popular as the pros. (and we suck for producing top prospects)
Tim Duncan should be remembered as one of the last great players to finish college and get a degree.
I'm giggling at the notion that anyone would argue, at this point, that Scottie Pippen might have been better than Lebron James is.
While Galileo has some abiding need to make comparisons based on things like All-Star nods, All-NBA nods, championships, and MVPs, it's crazy to base the assessment of players just on those things. Assessing the ability and value of players is not just a function of comparing resumes. That's particularly true where the accolades in question are based entirely on subjective votes that -- as yesterday's discussion of Kareem's 74-75 season demonstrated or as the exclusion of Manu Ginobili from the '08 West All-Stars shows -- sometimes just get things wrong.
Lebron James is in his 6th season and is 24 years of age. Over 6 seasons, he's averaged 27.5 points per game in the regular season and 28.3 points per game in the postseason. He's shot 47% from the field for his career (despite a 41% mark in his rookie season) and 48% from the field in the playoffs. He's a 7 rebound per night guy over 6 regular seasons and an 8.3 rebound per night guy in a considerable number of playoff games (54 -- over the course of his NBA career, George Gervin only played in 59 playoff games). Lebron's in his 2nd conference finals already and seems likely to reach his 2nd Finals in the next 10-14 days.
To compare Lebron James to any retired player based on a resume -- at this juncture of his career -- is an exercise in fitting facts to a conclusion. Talent-for-talent, there are few players in the history of the game who have ever been as close to unstoppable as Lebron James is. That list is shorter still of guys who were that good at age 24.
Is Lebron James really better than Elvin Hayes? Well, Hayes was significantly better than Lebron at exactly one thing -- rebounding. Lebron is a much better scorer than Hayes was and is a much more efficient scorer, too. He's a better distributor as well, at least statistically speaking. All that Elvin Hayes has over Lebron is a long career over which to have ac ulated accomplishments -- which include (to go Galileo about it) 3 First Team selections, no MVP's, 2 Second Team All-Defense selections, 3 Finals appearances, and 1 ring. Even if it was just those things that factored into the comparison, it's impossible to argue that James isn't better than Hayes already, given the length of time that Hayes had to ac ulate his resume and the length of time Lebron has had to ac ulate his.
That's going to happen. You don't need to manufacture ridiculous "records" to be sure it does.
Hey you should make a trophy and send it to him!
Looking at Elvin Hayes at the same age as Lebron, you have:
20 years old
27 points per game, 17 rebounds
21
28 points, 16 rebounds
22
37 points, 19 rebounds
23
28 points, 17 rebounds
24
28 points, 17 rebounds
Totals
257 games
7473 points
29.1 points per game
4394 rebounds
17.1 rebounds per game
and 3 blocks per game in the only season blockes were kept.
When Hayes was 25, he averaged 29 points and 17 rebounds, when he was 26, he averaged 25 points and 15 rebounds, 27 he averaged 21 points and 15 rebounds, and 28 he averaged 21 points and 18 rebounds.
Hayes was on teams during this time. Then he went to Washington where he was basically a 20-10-2 blocks man for seven years and went to 3 finals. (he was 29 to 35 years old during those years)
That fact is, many NBA players have their best stats at age 25 or less, often in their first three seasons.
Lebron's stats are great now, but they will probably start to decline. Lebron's stats this season are no better than his second season. Shaq's best season statistically was his second season.
I saw Elvin Hayes play. He didn't get a lot of awards because he was stuck on teams when he was young. I do not see Lebron as a better player than Hayes.
Tim Duncan is the best black NBA basketball player to have never been in prison!
Nominee: Top Twenty Stupidest Things Ever Said On This Board.
only a Nominee?
as many as 20?
Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 05-19-2009 at 04:30 PM.
Duncan also has 11 first team selections for all-American or all-NBA.
Who else has 11?
Jabber 13 (3 college)
Jerry West 12 (2 college)
Jordan 12 (2 college)
Oscar 12 (3 college)
Bird 11 (2 college)
Karl Malone 11
Bob Pet 11 (1 college)
Elgin Baylor 11 (1 college)
Duncan had a 1st team locked up in both 2006 and 2009, but struggled with injuries the last half of the season and was edged out.
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