Simmons on what the Spurs should do

[Bruno]

Even if Manu stays healthy, that's just the first domino that would have to fall for the Spurs to ultimately celebrate on the river.

Yes, even if Manu is back at his best level, Spurs FO will need to be nearly perfect to get #5.
Duncan's health is also a big domino...

[tav1]

Fair enough.

It sounds basically the same to me. Neither one of us think that there is an easy fix if Manu is done. You think the only avenue to the drastic fix is via free agency, and while I agree with free agency being an option, I also think that the right trade could possibly keep the door open.

If Manu is done you absolutely trade him, and here's why. His expiring contract is still enough to land one inexpensive young prospect. An inexpensive young prospect + scaled back free agent money + Splitter keeps the team compe ive.

On top of this, the Spurs could still get creative with their other expiring contracts.

I think this is a better option than trying one's luck on the free agent market because, at best, the Spurs will land a player on par with 2007 Manu. 2007 Manu + current Parker + current Duncan might not be enough to get past the Lakers. If that's the case, they'll still need a couple more pieces to fill things out.

btw: even a diminished Manu and his expiring contract should still carry a good asking price on the market. Ben Gordon and Tyrus Thomas? Rip Hamilton or Tay Prince and Amir Johnson? Keep in mind, in the first scenario it's actually just Thomas for Manu because Gordon is not going to resign with Chicago. The second is a Detroit salary dump for Manu--which is easier to sell to fans than a straight dump.

[ivanfromwestwood]

What kind of deal would you consider good for the spurs in a trading parker idea ?

how bout parker to the clippers for camby and first round daft pick plus another scrub. then we get ricky rubio and parker gets to move to las angeles. everyone would be happy.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I generally love Bill Simmons' writing, and a lot of the time he nails things more conventional writers completely miss, but that is the dumbest ing trade I've ever heard.

Parker is one of the top 3 PGs in the league and at his peak over the next 3-4 years, so you trade him for a scrub like Foye and the number 6 pick in a weak draft? GTFOH!

[Marcus Bryant]

Proof that what matters most is the ability to make people laugh.

[Brazil]

The chance to get a #5 w/o Manu is just close to 0 whatever the deal we can think of. So the spurs scenario must be done considering a manu healthy, forget the 2010 plan. Our best shot is still with the big 3 but even healthy I agree with Bruno we need a kind of miracle Hill becoming a very solid nba player on O and D, Mason playing great in PO, cleaning the house with the departure of fin, JV, udoka, bonner, KT for a decent C or PF (it could be drew) + SF and hoping that Ian or Gist become a very gifted young player.

[Russ]

Number 5 for the Spurs will be like drawing an inside straight.

They need both Manu being healthy and more athleticism.

That will be the minumum of requirements to get back to the promised land.

[DPG21920]

To me, a miracle is drastic. And something drastic enough to make the Spurs a contender without Manu would be a miracle. I don't see a non-drastic move that would result in the Spurs winning a championship without Manu.

True. And depending on how you look at it, a fifth ring with or without Manu could be deemed unrealistic. Even if Manu stays healthy, that's just the first domino that would have to fall for the Spurs to ultimately celebrate on the river.

There are 4 scenarios now that I have seen it:

1) Spurs do not make any trades (or just very small ones) and Manu is healthy.
- This would mean that the Spurs would extend him more than likely and the bulk of the 2010 money goes to him, leaving little room to upgrade. Which in Bruno's mind means they would not be able to compete for a le.

2) Spurs do not make trades and Manu is unhealthy.
- This would mean the Spurs would have to lure a FA, which is hard to do and he would have to be as good as Manu just to keep the team where they are at. Which is probably slightly below championship contender.

3) Spurs make a significant trade and Manu is healthy.
- This would mean the gamble pays off and the Spurs have their best shot at #5.

4) Spurs make a significant trade and get some upgrades and Manu is unhealthy.
- This would mean the Spurs do not extend Manu and do not have money to upgrade the team so they are stuck with TD, TP and good support and thus not contenders.


If you look at that, only 1 scenario leads to the Spurs having a chance at number 5.

This is where we come back to scenario 3. If they are going to be essentially screwed with Manu healthy or hurt, they must take their chances and trade for some talent now without having to give up any of the big 3.

It is a risk, but with all the other options presented, if Manu can stay healthy and perform, it has the least amount of downside coupled with the most upside.

[Obstructed_View]

timvp playing the smartass..

If Manu is done, it would take a miracle for Duncan to get #5 with Spurs.

Happy now ?

If Manu is done, the Spurs can still win with Parker + Duncan + good role players. If Parker is gone, the Spurs might not win with Manu + Duncan, even if both are at 100 percent because there's nobody who can reliably run the team. The Spurs' success or lack of success in the playoffs has centered around guard penetration, and there's nobody better than Parker. The almost D'Antoni-like failure to develop anything that resembles a backup point guard means the loss of Parker would destroy this team, at least in the short term, which means the Spurs would be pissing away another year that the window is open.

[tmtcsc]

WTF does Bill Simmons know ? He's a dude with a mic, that's it. His opinion is no more informed than anyone else. Manu Ginobili is going to be back with a vengence.

[Holt's Cat]

So let me get this right. The Spurs trade their top scorer and youngest star because the other two stars are aging and dealing with physical ailments. Yeah, that makes sense.

[cdcast]

Spurs need a starting big and SF. That means using their expiring contracts in a trade and using the MLE and LLE---that puts them way over the luxury tax.

If there was ever a summer for them to pay the luxury tax---THIS IS IT. But I can't see Holt doing it. His cheapness is gonna hold the team back from any meaningful moves.

[Blackjack]

Over/Under the amount of pages in this thread?

5, huh?

That's all you guy's got?

your kidding right. so i guess it was another tony parker taking it to kidd, nash, billups and a number of other big name pg's on the way to 3 championships. parker is one of the top 3 pg's in the league right now. and he has got better every year. i bet next year he will be in the running for mvp at his pace.

You did read the whole post, right?

Some of you guy's are hilarious. If the rhetoric isn't glowing, it's some how a slight or bash. Amazing, really.

Why don't you tell me how many 6'-ish scoring point-guard's have ever been the centerpiece to a championship team?

Off the top of my head, I can think of only Zeek. Probably the greatest little man to ever play the game.

Are your Spurs-blinders suggesting that Tony is on his way to being the best/most dominant little man the league's ever seen?

If so, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

See, I hate having to respond to irrational/emotional (homer) posts, because it puts me in a position to where I almost have to denigrate someone, when that was never the intention.

I'm open to the possibility of a Parker trade, but I'm not pushing for one.

Simmons suggested trade is a flat-out joke, but the logic in trading Parker isn't all that crazy.

If the Spurs could get Memphis to give up something like the rights to Rubio, Mayo, and Darko- a decent big who's contract would probably make the trade work- I'd definitely consider it. But that's just something off the top of my head.

[Solid D]

Spurs need a starting big and SF.

and a backup PG who can manage the floor and clock. Pop seems to be more interested in playing George Hill at the 2, with an ability to guard opposing 2s/3s with his long wingspan and on-ball D. Mason isn't a PG either.

[50 cent]

All you have do is watch these Playoffs to realize how far away the Spurs are now from an athleticism standpoint from contention.

It's sad to admit, but we've fallen off the contender radar real quickly.

I don't even think a healthy Big 3 is going to get us past the first round at this point in their careers.

It's going to take a miracle to get #5. Incredible health, the fountain of youth, Ian Manhinmi actually not being a china doll and becoming a force in the NBA, and some schrewd FA moves.

It's been one of a run, but I'm afraid it's over barring a Christ-like intervention.

[JustinJDW]

So the Spurs best move to win now is to trade a point guard in his prime for a lesser talent not in his and a 19 year-old?

I know right, what a joke of a plan. Who the is writing this crap.

Trade Tony? Right when he is just breaking out? Right when he developed his jump shot to perfect and can drive and do whatever he wants, basically making him unstoppable? Trade Parker? Right in his prime? Is this a ing joke?

[poop]

All you have do is watch these Playoffs to realize how far away the Spurs are now from an athleticism standpoint from contention.
.

its been painfully obvious for a long time now.

this is why i was so excited about us signing POPSMB and giving Hairston minutes, at least we were moving in the direction of youth and athleticism.

but most here laughed at that, and popovich agreed, waiving(or benching) all our young athletic talent in favor of keeping Bonner, Vaughn, and Oberto on our playoff roster. maybe now some of the bags will admit how stupid it was to do that. we could have been developing POPS, hairston and even Williams but now all we have is a group of mediocre fossils.

[GSH]

Here's how the Spurs can win #5 and #6 before Duncan's time is up:

Trade Parker for Jose Calderon and Anthony Parker, and the Raptors' #9 pick. Draft Earl Clark with the #9 pick, and Terrence Williams with the #37 pick (for their defense at first), and get Chip Engelland to help them improve their shooting.

Tank the 09-10 season, giving Tim and Manu enough time to legitimately heal, and secure a lottery pick for 2010. (Then defy the ping-pong ball odds once again. )

Summer of 2010: sign Tiago Splitter and the #1 pick in the draft.

Fall of 2010: Duncan and Manu are fresh and ready to kick ass. Tiago Splitter shows everyone he is more than NBA-ready, and Ian Mahinmi is finally able to put in solid NBA minutes. Calderon is dishing out 10 assists per night, and Hill is solid as his backup. Roger Mason and Anthony Parker are consistent, rock-solid journeymen. Earl Clark is drawing comparisons to Danny Granger, and Terrence Williams is drawing comparisons to Bruce Bowen. James Gist is back from Europe, and is an animal on both ends of the floor. Malik Hairston has found his confidence (and his jump shot) in the D-League and the only problem is finding him enough minutes. And the new #1 draft pick is just a bonus... and the foundation of the new dynasty.

The only thing that is a big stretch is the lottery pick, but since we all know that God loves the Spurs...

[Edit: Okay, so the #1 pick is tongue-in-cheek, but the rest is all within the realm of possibility. I think the Parker for Calderon/Parker/#9 trade works for salary matching. (Plus Calderon is a of a PG, and Parker speaks French.) Anthony Carter is a solid night-in night-out player. And both of those young draft picks are good defenders with plenty of offensive upside. Splitter isn't out of the question (unless there is some new development I've missed.) With Duncan, Manu, and Splitter together, I think the rest could be more than enough to win a championship.]

[ivanfromwestwood]

Are your Spurs-blinders suggesting that Tony is on his way to being the best/most dominant little man the league's ever seen?

If so, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

wtf are you talking about best all time? all im saying is parker owns every current pg in the nba. he has beat kidd, nash, billups, paul, d will and many others in the playoffs. imagine if we lost his offense. spurs might be lucky to average 70pts a game.

See, I hate having to respond to irrational/emotional (homer) posts, because it puts me in a position to where I almost have to denigrate someone, when that was never the intention.

maybe you should take a bong hit before you post. it helps rid the asshole within you.

[raspsa]

As good as Parker is, he's not the kind of player you can build a team around.

I'd agree with you. Parker is a very good at creating offense.. when he's hot, he's unstoppable.. The problem is, specially in the playoffs teams have time to adjust their defenses and many times TP has started off a series great but has struggled as the series goes on. Its not personal, I just don't think small PGs are franchise players in general.. note I said "small".. Magic Johnson I could build a franchise around..

[spursbird]

Trade Manu for Barbosa and Robin Lopez. They're younger and had less injuries.

[wildbill2u]

If one of the Big 3 goes down, virtually everyone agrees that we're toast.

But there is a worse scenario---the Big 3 stay healthy and we're still toast because the role players we have can't carry the load in the West. We simply don't have ANY proven quality role players behind these guys like most of the other quality teams. We can make the playoffs and bow out in the first round.

Bowen is not the old Bowen or Pop would be playing him. Gooden is the next best bet but he's offensive minded only and may seek greener pastures. Mason proved to be a one trick pony. Thomas creaks when he walks. Bonner proved he's lacking consistency on O and D. Oberto may be the best of the bunch because he knows the game and that's a little scary. There's no atleticism and no youth in these guys.

The young guys, Mahimi and Hill haven't proved they can play significant roles.

[spursbird]

If one of the Big 3 goes down, virtually everyone agrees that we're toast.

But there is a worse scenario---the Big 3 stay healthy and we're still toast because the role players we have can't carry the load in the West. We simply don't have ANY proven quality role players behind these guys like most of the other quality teams. We can make the playoffs and bow out in the first round.

Bowen is not the old Bowen or Pop would be playing him. Gooden is the next best bet but he's offensive minded only and may seek greener pastures. Mason proved to be a one trick pony. Thomas creaks when he walks. Bonner proved he's lacking consistency on O and D. Oberto may be the best of the bunch because he knows the game and that's a little scary. There's no atleticism and no youth in these guys.

The young guys, Mahimi and Hill haven't proved they can play significant roles.

Yep, and we have to wait until 2010 to see who we can get.

[Jace]

Question-Is Parker somewhat overrated? I'm a huge Spurs fan and a big Parker fan but these playoffs have made me wondered about just how great he is. Obviously he can score in bunches but it appears that every speedy little PGs can do that now, every PG from Aaron Brooks to Derrick Rose lit up the scoreboard Is Parker really that unique?

[anakha]

Aaron Brooks

Think for a moment who was playing PG for the Lakers, and you'll realize Brooks's performance was good but not as great as some people may make it out to be.

Derrick Rose

Rose has the potential to be a perennial All-Star, at least. I don't mind the comparison.