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JR RiderOh damn, i just accused Kobe of guarding a retired player!
Free Throws man, free throws. That's how he got his points in, it wasn't from the field when he was actually guarded.
Shooting 40% from the field is aweful.
Kobe's done very well on Billups/Smith, Melo is still getting his points on Kobe "like big brother vs little brotha".
JR Rider
How the F do you think guys get to the FT line? they get there by beating his main defender off the dribble and getting to rim.Free Throws man, free throws. That's how he got his points in, it wasn't from the field when he was actually guarded.
Shooting 40% from the field is aweful.
Kobe's done very well on Billups/Smith, Melo is still getting his points on Kobe "like big brother vs little brotha".
so now you are going to tell me he is only getting to the line on intentional fouls? he is getting to the line because he is playing his defenders, kobe included.Free Throws man, free throws. That's how he got his points in, it wasn't from the field when he was actually guarded.
Shooting 40% from the field is aweful.
Kobe's done very well on Billups/Smith, Melo is still getting his points on Kobe "like big brother vs little brotha".
if FTs dont count, why didnt you say kobe scored 22 on 50%? you purposely put billups shot count without pts, but for kobe you put 32 on 50%. thats comparing apples to oranges and i called you out on it.
and for the guy making a hypothetical 12pps for a guy that goes 1/1 + 10FT... show me one game where a player that attempted one shot went to the line 10 times, regardless of makes...
Last edited by diego; 05-22-2009 at 06:39 PM.
Or they could come through screen and rolls which opponents do alot to the Lakers.
Billups is a medium speed guard, he ain't beating a much quicker Kobe off the dribble. He gets separation with a screen from a teammate.
I've watched the games and Billups is getting to the paint whenever he wants and in most cases he doesn't use a screen.
Kobe overplays people when he guards somebody, basically what you need to do to beat him off the drible is just drible the ball you don't need to be fast.
Kobe's defense is overrated.
I disagree. I believe Kobe is an excellent defender that rarely gets beat except on screen and rolls.
His problems are 1) roaming 2) defending much larger players like DHo
Man to man (without picks/screens), the only player I've ever seen consistently get the better of Kobe is Melo in these Playoffs.
Give him turns on Melo, Smith and Billups, but lock him on Billups in the 4th.
Lakers have the same problem Cleveland does:
Kobe does a decent job on whoever he guards, be it Melo, Smith or Billups. But even if he's keeping one guy relatively contained, the other two are getting loose. When it comes to his defensive assignment in the 4th Q, I put him on the guy running the Nuggets offense as opposed to Melo. Ariza has the length and athleticism to keep Melo from just going totally ing berserk. Ariza has to do a better job than he has on Anthony and knock down open threes. That's pretty much how the series is going to be decided. Teams are giving the Lakers the open looks for Fisher and Ariza, it's just a matter of how well they can take advantage of it. Last night they didn't even allow Kobe to have even a tiny chance of getting the inbounds on the last play.
With Cleveland, Z is too slow and Varejao too weak to bang with Howard, and there's only one of LBJ to check either Lewis or Turkoglu.
Didn't say if it was anything but a hypothetical situation, was just trying to establish what you mean by "shot". Since you didn't bother answer, ill assume that the proposition of a guy making 12 pps is implausible and absurd to you. And i dont know if anyone ever went 1/1 + 10FT, and im not really that interested if someone did, nor do i have any good incentive to go browsing through box scores to check out. Could have happened, probably didn't.
Billups used up 15 possesions for 14 points (6-15,2-4) , and used up another 8 possesions for 13 points (13-16). He made a bit less then 1.2 points per possesion used / shot taken.
Kobe on the other hand used up 24 possesions for 31 points ( disregarding the one techinical FT he made), so he made a bit less then 1.3 points per possesion/ shot.
Kobe scored more pps then billups in the last game, and your the one who is twisting stats to your convenience as well.
Kobe Bryant is the most overated defensive player I have ever seen. For the amount he roams, he doesn't make nearly enough playmaking defensive plays like Wade or James.
PPS is a simpler version of true shooting %; I used it because it is easier to calculate. for an explanation of why TS% or PPS are better than FG%, which Allanon used in his original comparison, you can visit a more detailed and eloquent explanation from knickerblogger.net (shooting section): http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=608
remember the point of the discussion was whether billups was being effectively guarded by kobe/ the lakers. allanon posted billups FG% without his point total, then he posted kobe's FG% with his point total. why he posted kobe's numbers when they had nothing to do with discussion, I dont know, but i'd guess its because he's a kobe nuthugger and he is trying to make billups look bad. now if allanon had just posted that billups scored 27 pts on 40 FG% I probably wouldnt have said anything. but since he didnt include the point total, it was obvious he was trying to imply that billups had a bad game and only made 6 baskets.
I dont know where you got the possession stats, but TS% is the most precise stat and I will calculate it for that game.
True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * (FGA + 0.44 * FTA)). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws
billups: 27 / (2*(15+(.44*16)) = 61%
kobe: 32 / (2*(20+(.44*10)) = 66%
so kobe had a better game... but both players had excellent games where they scored 25+ pts with 60+ TS%. the results are pretty much the same as the per possession one you posted, with kobe being a smide better than billups.
BUT to conclude that billups had an "awful" game like allanon did, or that he was inefficient due to the lakers/kobe's D, is ridiculous. he put up 27 pts in a very efficient manner, and if allanon or anyone else thinks that he was "held" to anything in that game, then they must think billups is one of the best basketball players ever.
now if you think I was misleading with the PPS, trying to imply that billups is better than kobe... no, and its a stupid comparison anyway, kobe is a volume scorer and billups is a distrubitor (if I wanted to do that, I'd go with melo, who is also a volume scorer). but, I did want to show that kobe hasnt been much better than billups was in game 2, and for a laker say that billups was awful then he must be saying kobe has been awful as well.
now, if you think that billups was awful, that he only got to the line 16 times because of intentional fouls and not because the lakers were incapable of guarding him, and that kobe played great defense on him, fine, thats your opinion. but the stats for that night, for the playoffs, for the season and for all of history say the opposite.
Kobe guards someone? I thought the league allows the Lakers 95 timeouts in order to pull him on every defensive possession. The most actively Kobe ever plays D is when he throws out his arms and hits opposing team players after someone blocks him on the offensive end.
as for pps... I dont think anyone has ever got over 2.5 pps... In recent years, i think the highest pps has been for guys like shaq, amare, with just over 2.1/2.2.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statis...r=true&split=0
there you have the team stats for the playoffs... denver is first in pps, and as you can see adjusted FG% and pps correlate very well. TS% is better but not as simple to calculate, with pps you can just look at shot attempts and points and get an idea of how efficient a player was.
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