Cheney fires back

[fyatuk]

Right... that's kinda my point. That usually happens. 2002 was unique due to fear, 9/11 and other things. I would say 2002 is an outlier.

Yeah, we're pretty much in agreement. 2002 was definitely a weird one due to what was going on.

[Ignignokt]

It's not surprising that the GOP can't figure this out.

Um... no.. you're a moron.

The 10 punches Cheney landed on Barack Obama's jaw
Posted By: Toby Harnden at May 21, 2009 at 23:21:41 [General]
Posted in: Foreign Correspondents
Tags:View More
AEI, Barack Obama, cheney, Guantanamo Bay, National Archives

The spectacle of two duelling speeches with a mile of each other in downtown Washington was extraordinary. I was at the Cheney event and watched Obama's address on a big screen beside the empty lectern that the former veep stepped behind barely two minutes after his adversary had finished.

So who won the fight? (it's hard to use anything other than a martial or pugilistic metaphor). Well, most people are on either one side or the other of this issue and I doubt today will have prompted many to switch sides.

But the very fact that Obama chose to schedule his speech (Cheney's was announced first) at exactly the same time as the former veep was a sign of some weakness.



Obama's speech and Cheney's empty lectern. Pic: Toby Harnden

The venues for the speeches said something. Obama showily chose the National Archives, repository for many of the founding do ents of the US, and spoke in front of a copy of the Cons ution - cloaking himself in the flag, as Republicans were often criticised for doing.

To hear Cheney speak, we were crammed into a decidedly unglamourous and cramped conference room at AEI, favourite think tank of conservative hawks.

The former veep's speech was factual and unemotional and certainly devoid of the kind of hokey, self-obsessed, campaign-style stuff like this, from Obama's address today: "I stand here today as someone whose own life was made possible by these do ents. My father came to these shores in search of the promise that they offer. My mother made me rise before dawn to learn their truths when I lived as a child in a foreign land."

In terms of Obama's purported aim for his speech - to present a plan for closing Guantanamo Bay aimed at placating Congress - he failed. The reception on Capitol Hill was lukewarm with even Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.



Cheney responds Pic: Toby Harnden

Cheney's speech wasn't stylish, there were no rhetorical flourishes and the tone was bitingly sarcastic and disdainful at times. But it was effective in many respects and Cheney showed that Obama is not invulnerable. Here are 10 of the punches he landed on the President's jaw:

1. "I've heard occasional speculation that I'm a different man after 9/11. I wouldn't say that, but I'll freely admit that watching a coordinated, devastating attack on our country from an underground bunker at the White House can affect how you view your responsibilities."

Anyone who was in New York or Washington on 9/11 (I was here in DC) was profoundly affected and most Americans understand this. Obama was, as far as I can tell, in Chicago. His response - he was then a mere state senator for liberal Hyde Park - was startlingly hand-wringing and out of step with how most Americans were feeling. This statement by Cheney reminds people of the tough decisions he and Bush had to make - ones that Obama has not yet faced.

2. "The first attack on the World Trade Center was treated as a law- enforcement problem, with everything handled after the fact: arrests, indictments, convictions, prison sentences, case closed."

This was the pre-9/11 mindset, much criticised after the attacks. Many sense that this is the approach Obama is increasingly taking.

3. "By presidential decision last month, we saw the selective release of do ents relating to enhanced interrogations. This is held up as a bold exercise in open government, honoring the public's right to know. We're informed as well that there was much agonizing over this decision. Yet somehow, when the soul searching was done and the veil was lifted on the policies of the Bush administration, the public was given less than half the truth."

The release of the do ents was a nakedly political move by Obama and Cheney called him on it. This passage from Obama's speech today came across as completely disingenuous: "I did not do this because I disagreed with the enhanced interrogation techniques that those memos authorized, and I didn't release the do ents because I rejected their legal rationales -- although I do on both counts. I released the memos because the existence of that approach to interrogation was already widely known, the Bush Administration had acknowledged its existence, and I had already banned those methods."


4. "It's hard to imagine a worse precedent filled with more possibilities for trouble and abuse than to have an incoming administration criminalize the policy decisions of its predecessor. Apart from doing a serious injustice to intelligence operators and lawyers, who deserve far better for their devoted service, the danger here is a loss of focus on national security and what it requires."

Obama's suggestion that Bush administration officials might be prosecuted for legal and policy judgements about what was an was not permissible in interrogations was chilling. I doubt most Americans have any enthusiasm for such a witch-hunt and it flies in the face of Obama's stated desire not to "re-litigate" the Bush years.

5. "We had a lot of blind spots after the attacks on our country, things we didn't know about al Qaeda. We didn't know about al Qaeda's plans, but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and a few others did know. And with many thousands of innocent lives potentially in the balance, we did not think it made sense to let the terrorists answer questions in their own good time, if they answered them at all."

The political climate is very different now from what it was just after 9/11 but it could change again in a heartbeat if and when there is another terrorist attack. Most Americans do not favour torture but do want the CIA and other agencies to question suspected terrorists very vigorously indeed if there is any chance they might know something about an attack on the US homeland.

6. "On his second day in office, President Obama announced he was closing the detention facility at Guantanamo. This step came with little deliberation, and no plan. Now the president says some of these terrorists should be brought to American soil for trial in our court system. Others, he says, will be shipped to third countries; but so far, the United States has had little luck getting other countries to take hardened terrorists."

Obama's grand announcement at the start of his administration that Gitmo would be closed within a year was clearly not properly thought out. If he fails to achieve what he promised, he will pay a big political price and Cheney was marking his card on the issue.

7. "The administration has found that it's easy to receive applause in Europe for closing Guantanamo, but it's tricky to come up with an alternative that will serve the interest of justice and America's national security."

The notion that Obama makes gestures designed to court popularity abroad is one that could find increasing resonance - many Republicans strongly suspect it already.

8. "If fine speechmaking, appeals to reason, or pleas for compassion had the power to move them, the terrorists would long ago have abandoned the field."

As Cheney said this, sarcasm dripped from his lips. Obviously "fine speechmaking" but no real substance is not a new charge against Obama and it hits home. And Cheney successfully mades the point that much of the rhetoric from the Left tends to suggest that if only the US did not waterboard people, if only the US was viewed as Obama rather than Bush, Venus rather than Mars then it would be universally loved and al-Qaeda would wither away. UNfortunately, that's not the real world.

9. "It's worth recalling that ultimate power of declassification belongs to the president himself. President Obama has used his declassification authority to reveal what happens in the interrogation of terrorists. Now let him use that same power to show Americans what did not happen thanks to the good work of our intelligence officials."

Cheney is pushing Obama to declassify do eents relating to the information gained from terrorist suspects who were subjected to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques. This puts Obama in a bind. If he does so, it prolongs an argument he wants to move on from and prolongs the Obama vs Cheney meme that is distracting and doesn't really help him. if he doesn't, he looks like he has something to hide.

10. "To the very end of our administration, we kept al-Qaeda terrorists busy with other problems. We focused on getting their secrets instead of sharing ours with them. And on our watch, they never hit this country again. After the most lethal and devastating terrorist attack ever, 7- 1/2 years without a repeat is not a record to be rebuked and scorned, much less criminalized."

It's indisputably an achievement of the Bush administration that it prevented the US from being attacked after 9/11. By ramming this point home, Cheney tees things up for some very tough questioning of Obama in the event that the US is attacked again.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_ha...ack_obamas_jaw

[George Gervin's Afro]

Cheney called out that dumbass Obama. There is no doubt Obama deserved the disconnected from reality speech. Obama is even keeping up with the Bush policies on the war. And holy . All this talk about waterboarding and it turns out 3 mother ers were only waterboarded at Gitmo. Are you kidding me. One of them was the mastermind of 9-11. Again not torture but come on, 3 freaken people.

Looks like Obama and his cryasses has finally woke the sleeping bear. If Cheney decides to stop fishing or hunting,Obama is going to be hating life. That will be a fact.

who was talking to?

[boutons_deux]

head called out no one. He continues to spew lies, now as when he was in office, to fabricate history to vindicate himself.

head has been a disaster for USA and continues to drive that disaster.

[Marcus Bryant]

Um... no.. you're a moron.

Yawn. Apparently 365 to 173, 53% to 46%, and +10 million is not as clear as it should have been the average dumbass like gtown.

[Ignignokt]

Yawn. Apparently 365 to 173, 53% to 46%, and +10 million is not as clear as it should have been the average dumbass like gtown.

Now you're not making sense. Besides if cheney is so unuseful, why is obama responding towards cheney's accusations, and why is obama basically reimplementing his plans.

The past election is the past election, the electorate is fickle, you defend in what you believe regardless of how popular you or the issue is. The republican party doesn't need nutless wonders like Marcus "Razed and Glazed" Bryant.

[antimvp]

No they don't.

yes they do

[antimvp]

thw only reason cheney is speaking out is to save his own skin......if the Obama Administration keeps turning over rocks they are gonna find his red hand stuck in a cookie jar.....and he is trying to make them stop looking.

[Ignignokt]

thw only reason cheney is speaking out is to save his own skin......if the Obama Administration keeps turning over rocks they are gonna find his red hand stuck in a cookie jar.....and he is trying to make them stop looking.

how bout the fact that obama chose to release cherry picked memos to score political points, wanted the heads of previous officials, rather than releasing all the memos pertaining towards interrogation.

If the news media only released court do ents which make your case look bad to the public, you'd have the same reaction cheney would, unless your marcus bryant, in which case your impotent member would render you nutless to defend yourself because November elections happened, and your butt hurts.

[boutons_deux]

Here's a bunch of blows head landed on his own shriveled .

head is a pathological liar and murderer with the wasted blood of 1000s of US military on his hands.




Cheney's speech contained omissions, misstatements

By Jonathan S. Landay and Warren P. Strobel, McClatchy Newspapers Jonathan S. Landay And Warren P. Strobel, Mcclatchy Newspapers

Thu May 21, 7:10 pm ET


WASHINGTON — Former Vice President Cheney's defense Thursday of the Bush administration's policies for interrogating suspected terrorists contained omissions, exaggerations and misstatements.


In his address to the American Enterprise Ins ute , a conservative policy organization in Washington , Cheney said that the techniques the Bush administration approved, including waterboarding — simulated drowning that's considered a form of torture — forced nakedness and sleep deprivation, were "legal" and produced information that "prevented the violent death of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of innocent people."


He quoted the Director of National Intelligence, Adm. Dennis Blair , as saying that the information gave U.S. officials a "deeper understanding of the al Qaida organization that was attacking this country."


In a statement April 21 , however, Blair said the information "was valuable in some instances" but that "there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means. The bottom line is that these techniques hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."


A top-secret 2004 CIA inspector general's investigation found no conclusive proof that information gained from aggressive interrogations helped thwart any "specific imminent attacks," according to one of four top-secret Bush-era memos that the Justice Department released last month.


FBI Director Mueller Robert Muller told Vanity Fair magazine in December that he didn't think that the techniques disrupted any attacks.


— Cheney said that President Barack Obama's decision to release the four top-secret Bush administration memos on the interrogation techniques was "flatly contrary" to U.S. national security, and would help al Qaida train terrorists in how to resist U.S. interrogations.
However, Blair, who oversees all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, said in his statement that he recommended the release of the memos, "strongly supported" Obama's decision to prohibit using the controversial methods and that "we do not need these techniques to keep America safe."


— Cheney said that the Bush administration "moved decisively against the terrorists in their hideouts and their sanctuaries, and committed to using every asset to take down their networks."
The former vice president didn't point out that Osama bin Laden and his chief lieutenant, Ayman al Zawahri , remain at large nearly eight years after 9-11 and that the Bush administration began diverting U.S. forces, intelligence assets, time and money to planning an invasion of Iraq before it finished the war in Afghanistan against al Qaida and the Taliban .


There are now 49,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan fighting to contain the bloodiest surge in Taliban violence since the 2001 U.S.-led intervention, and Islamic extremists also have launched their most concerted attack yet on neighboring, nuclear-armed Pakistan .


— Cheney denied that there was any connection between the Bush administration's interrogation policies and the abuse of detainee at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison, which he blamed on "a few sadistic guards . . . in violation of American law, military regulations and simple decency."


However, a bipartisan Senate Armed Services Committee report in December traced the abuses at Abu Ghraib to the approval of the techniques by senior Bush administration officials, including former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld .


"The abuse of detainees in U.S. custody cannot simply be attributed to the actions of 'a few bad apples' acting on their own," said the report issued by Sens. Carl Levin , D- Mich. , and John McCain , R- Ariz. "The fact is that senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality and authorized their use against detainees."


— Cheney said that "only detainees of the highest intelligence value" were subjected to the harsh interrogation techniques, and he cited Khalid Sheikh Mohammad , the alleged mastermind of the 9-11 attacks.


He didn't mention Abu Zubaydah, the first senior al Qaida operative to be captured after 9-11. Former FBI special agent Ali Soufan told a Senate subcommittee last week that his interrogation of Zubaydah using traditional methods elicited crucial information, including Mohammed's alleged role in 9-11.


The decision to use the harsh interrogation methods "was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in our efforts against al Qaida ," Soufan said. Former State Department official Philip Zelikow , who in 2005 was then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's point man in an internal fight to overhaul the Bush administration's detention policies, joined Soufan in his criticism.


— Cheney said that "the key to any strategy is accurate intelligence," but the Bush administration ignored warnings from experts in the CIA , the Defense Intelligence Agency , the State Department , the Department of Energy and other agencies, and used false or exaggerated intelligence supplied by Iraqi exile groups and others to help make its case for the 2003 invasion.


Cheney made no mention of al Qaida operative Ali Mohamed al Fakheri , who's known as Ibn Sheikh al Libi , whom the Bush administration secretly turned over to Egypt for interrogation in January 2002 . While allegedly being tortured by Egyptian authorities, Libi provided false information about Iraq's links with al Qaida , which the Bush administration used despite doubts expressed by the DIA.
A state-run Libyan newspaper said Libi committed suicide recently in a Libyan jail.


— Cheney accused Obama of "the selective release" of do ents on Bush administration detainee policies, charging that Obama withheld records that Cheney claimed prove that information gained from the harsh interrogation methods prevented terrorist attacks.
"I've formally asked that (the information) be declassified so the American people can see the intelligence we obtained," Cheney said. "Last week, that request was formally rejected."


However, the decision to withhold the do ents was announced by the CIA , which said that it was obliged to do so by a 2003 executive order issued by former President George W. Bush prohibiting the release of materials that are the subject of lawsuits.


— Cheney said that only "ruthless enemies of this country" were detained by U.S. operatives overseas and taken to secret U.S. prisons.
A 2008 McClatchy investigation, however, found that the vast majority of Guantanamo detainees captured in 2001 and 2002 in Afghanistan and Pakistan were innocent citizens or low-level fighters of little intelligence value who were turned over to American officials for money or because of personal or political rivalries.


In addition, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Oct. 5, 2005 , that the Bush administration had admitted to her that it had mistakenly abducted a German citizen, Khaled Masri , from Macedonia in January 2004 .


Masri reportedly was flown to a secret prison in Afghanistan , where he allegedly was abused while being interrogated. He was released in May 2004 and dumped on a remote road in Albania .


In January 2007 , the German government issued arrest warrants for 13 alleged CIA operatives on charges of kidnapping Masri.


— Cheney slammed Obama's decision to close the Guantanamo Bay prison camp and criticized his effort to persuade other countries to accept some of the detainees.


The effort to shut down the facility, however, began during Bush's second term, promoted by Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates .
"One of the things that would help a lot is, in the discussions that we have with the states of which they (detainees) are nationals, if we could get some of those countries to take them back," Rice said in a Dec. 12, 2007 , interview with the British Broadcasting Corp. "So we need help in closing Guantanamo ."


— Cheney said that, in assessing the security environment after 9-11, the Bush team had to take into account "dictators like Saddam Hussein with known ties to Mideast terrorists."


Cheney didn't explicitly repeat the contention he made repeatedly in office: that Saddam cooperated with al Qaida , a linkage that U.S. intelligence officials and numerous official inquiries have rebutted repeatedly.


The late Iraqi dictator's association with terrorists vacillated and was mostly aimed at quashing opponents and critics at home and abroad.
The last State Department report on international terrorism to be released before 9-11 said that Saddam's regime "has not attempted an anti-Western terrorist attack since its failed plot to assassinate former President ( George H.W.) Bush in 1993 in Kuwait ."


A Pentagon study released last year, based on a review of 600,000 Iraqi do ents captured after the U.S.-led invasion, concluded that while Saddam supported militant Palestinian groups — the late terrorist Abu Nidal found refuge in Baghdad , at least until Saddam had him killed — the Iraqi security services had no "direct operational link" with al Qaida .

[jack sommerset]

[QUOTE=boutons_deux;3417901]Here's a bunch of blows head landed on his own shriveled .

head is a pathological liar and murderer with the wasted blood of 1000s of US military on his hands.[QUOTE]



Obama is not a liar? Thats halirious. After 4 years in office and Obama's decision to stay in Iraq and also concentrate U.S. military in Afghanistan he also will have blood of 1000's U.S. military on his hands. Let me guess " but,but,um,but, um.... It's Bush's is fault"

[George Gervin's Afro]

[QUOTE=jack sommerset;3417926][QUOTE=boutons_deux;3417901]Here's a bunch of blows head landed on his own shriveled .

head is a pathological liar and murderer with the wasted blood of 1000s of US military on his hands.

Obama is not a liar? Thats halirious. After 4 years in office and Obama's decision to stay in Iraq and also concentrate U.S. military in Afghanistan he also will have blood of 1000's U.S. military on his hands. Let me guess " but,but,um,but, um.... It's Bush's is fault"

so what do you suggest he do? leave bush's messes unifinished? That's not very responsible is it? do you suggest he let us lose? why do you want the USA to lose?


Again, who is talking to?

[jack sommerset]

[QUOTE=George Gervin's Afro;3417928][QUOTE=jack sommerset;3417926]

Here's a bunch of blows head landed on his own shriveled .

head is a pathological liar and murderer with the wasted blood of 1000s of US military on his hands.

so what do you suggest he do? leave bush's messes unifinished? That's not very responsible is it? do you suggest he let us lose? why do you want the USA to lose?


Again, who is talking to?

WTF are you talking about? Cheney was talking to the WORLD! He was showing leadership, something Obama knows nothing about. He was showing expierence and knowledge. He was showing he is a patriot and that he loves our country. He was not knocking it like Obama does.

I suggest Obama should admit he was wrong about Iraq. I suggest Obama call it the war on terror not overseas contingency operation. I suggest every American who voted for Obama to say they made a HUGE mistake. I suggest Obama and his fans to stop being hypocrites. I suggest he close down Gitmo like he said. I suggest he re-do the stimulus bill and this time take out the 8,000 pet projects. I suggest he tell the s he knows they voted for him but he feels the same way as Miss California. I suggest he tells Pelosi she is the liar and she should step down. I suggest he tell Biden to shut the up. I can go on but I'm hungry

[Cane]

Cheney is another example of why partisan politics are fail. I hope the Bush Dynasty is a major step towards the Republican party finally fading away especially since fewer and fewer people are Christians nowadays.

[Wild Cobra]

thw only reason cheney is speaking out is to save his own skin......if the Obama Administration keeps turning over rocks they are gonna find his red hand stuck in a cookie jar.....and he is trying to make them stop looking.

That's flat out false.

He is no longer VP. He has all the time in the world to set the record strait against the slander leveled by lib s, demoncraps, and demonrats.

[Wild Cobra]

Cheney's speech contained omissions, misstatements

By Jonathan S. Landay and Warren P. Strobel, McClatchy Newspapers

Thu May 21, 7:10 pm ET

---SNIP---

OMG, you did it again. Linked and quoted a meaningless piece of propaganda. The McClatchey News Company is a losing media outlet, because it prints material from bozo's like Strobel and Landay. Both are regular authors for Common Dreams. An organization that is radical left, and does not do any fact checking. All these guys write is propaganda.

When will you lemmings ever stop getting intoxicated on that Kool-Aid?

[boutons_deux]

Refute McClatchy article, or STFU

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, WC -- with what are you taking specific issue in the article?

[George Gervin's Afro]

[QUOTE=jack sommerset;3417942][QUOTE=George Gervin's Afro;3417928]

WTF are you talking about? Cheney was talking to the WORLD! He was showing leadership, something Obama knows nothing about. He was showing expierence and knowledge. He was showing he is a patriot and that he loves our country. He was not knocking it like Obama does.

I suggest Obama should admit he was wrong about Iraq. I suggest Obama call it the war on terror not overseas contingency operation. I suggest every American who voted for Obama to say they made a HUGE mistake. I suggest Obama and his fans to stop being hypocrites. I suggest he close down Gitmo like he said. I suggest he re-do the stimulus bill and this time take out the 8,000 pet projects. I suggest he tell the s he knows they voted for him but he feels the same way as Miss California. I suggest he tells Pelosi she is the liar and she should step down. I suggest he tell Biden to shut the up. I can go on but I'm hungry

did you get some freedom fries?

Poor little jack he has 7 1/2 more years to like the sissy he is.. stay classy , I mean jack..

[George Gervin's Afro]

OMG, you did it again. Linked and quoted a meaningless piece of propaganda. The McClatchey News Company is a losing media outlet, because it prints material from bozo's like Strobel and Landay. Both are regular authors for Common Dreams. An organization that is radical left, and does not do any fact checking. All these guys write is propaganda.

When will you lemmings ever stop getting intoxicated on that Kool-Aid?

are you stating that biased blogs/websitesb aren't legit? Are you telling us that biased sites should not be considered as credible? Or just left wing ones? Or are you just a hypocrite?

[jack sommerset]

[QUOTE=George Gervin's Afro;3418250][QUOTE=jack sommerset;3417942]

did you get some freedom fries?

Poor little jack he has 7 1/2 more years to like the sissy he is.. stay classy , I mean jack..

That's it? Freedom fries? Classy? ? Nice retort bag. U are a complete up if you actually think Obama will be here after 2012. Seriously. Again right in front of ur eyes the guy is falling apart. I ask myself now "what good has the guy done in his first 4-5 months?" The only good publicity he gets from the media that LOVES him is throwing a football in the White House or what kind of dog he is getting. It's pathetic but the ing drone you are has him in office 7 more years. Just ing look at yourself loser. That right there says something about you. People had no clue who this guy was before he was elected and now he is ing up our country. All the the democrats ed about with Bush he is keeping up with. Nothing has "changed" And you the idiot that you are say 4 more years, 4 more years and he has done . Pathetic. The thing is this. I know you are not this stupid. I know you cannot be happy with the decisions this guy has made so far. No one is. If you are, I doubt the government allows you to vote. Have you not figured it out yet. He has no ing clue what he is doing. Thank god the dems are starting to turn on him. They should stop this madness. Even old Bill Mahr is starting to turn. The guy is no good. And all you do is say 4 more years and Bush. That is ing weird.

[George Gervin's Afro]

[QUOTE=jack sommerset;3418328][QUOTE=George Gervin's Afro;3418250]

That's it? Freedom fries? Classy? ? Nice retort bag. U are a complete up if you actually think Obama will be here after 2012. Seriously. Again right in front of ur eyes the guy is falling apart. I ask myself now "what good has the guy done in his first 4-5 months?" The only good publicity he gets from the media that LOVES him is throwing a football in the White House or what kind of dog he is getting. It's pathetic but the ing drone you are has him in office 7 more years. Just ing look at yourself loser. That right there says something about you. People had no clue who this guy was before he was elected and now he is ing up our country. All the the democrats ed about with Bush he is keeping up with. Nothing has "changed" And you the idiot that you are say 4 more years, 4 more years and he has done . Pathetic. The thing is this. I know you are not this stupid. I know you cannot be happy with the decisions this guy has made so far. No one is. If you are, I doubt the government allows you to vote. Have you not figured it out yet. He has no ing clue what he is doing. Thank god the dems are starting to turn on him. They should stop this madness. Even old Bill Mahr is starting to turn. The guy is no good. And all you do is say 4 more years and Bush. That is ing weird.

don't worry skippy he has 100% of my support. seems to me that you should be happy with him since he is bush part 2. are you as confused as your posts seem to make you? so on what basis , besides what you hear on fox news, right wing blogs, talk radio, do you say he has no idea what he is doing? there are many intelligent people who seem to think he is on the right track. so tell us jack let us know waht you know...

[jack sommerset]

[QUOTE=George Gervin's Afro;3418372][QUOTE=jack sommerset;3418328]

don't worry skippy he has 100% of my support. seems to me that you should be happy with him since he is bush part 2. are you as confused as your posts seem to make you? so on what basis , besides what you hear on fox news, right wing blogs, talk radio, do you say he has no idea what he is doing? there are many intelligent people who seem to think he is on the right track. so tell us jack let us know waht you know...

Oh sonny boy. I am not happy with him nor am I confused. I never have seen a bigger liar in my 37 years. I already told you my basis skippy. I know you can read. I already told you why he has no idea what he is doing skippy. You are cofused. You bring up cable,radio and right wing blogs like you have any clue. It makes you feel safe to think that of me or anyone who calls out that liar. One day, like Obama, you are going to face up to reality. The campaign is over. Blaming Bush or any radio,tv,website won't cut it any longer. The man is one of the worst presidents in USA history. He has only been in office 4-5 months. It's ing sad. If you need to ask why again, just scroll up.

[George Gervin's Afro]

[QUOTE=jack sommerset;3418427][QUOTE=George Gervin's Afro;3418372]

Oh sonny boy. I am not happy with him nor am I confused. I never have seen a bigger liar in my 37 years. I already told you my basis skippy. I know you can read. I already told you why he has no idea what he is doing skippy. You are cofused. You bring up cable,radio and right wing blogs like you have any clue. It makes you feel safe to think that of me or anyone who calls out that liar. One day, like Obama, you are going to face up to reality. The campaign is over. Blaming Bush or any radio,tv,website won't cut it any longer. The man is one of the worst presidents in USA history. He has only been in office 4-5 months. It's ing sad. If you need to ask why again, just scroll up.

what has he lied about specifically? in general, if a politician lies does that make them a liar?

[George Gervin's Afro]

here jack i'll help you:


lie1  /laɪ/ Show Spelled [lahy] Show IPA noun, verb, lied, ly⋅ing.
–noun
1.a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2.something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.an inaccurate or false statement.