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  1. #151
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    stupidest idea ive heard

  2. #152
    Beast Mode Steve-O-Matic's Avatar
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    If the Wolves included Corey Brewer (who should be near 100% by the start of the season) I'd probably make that deal. Foye and the #6 pick (plus contract filler) isn't enough because neither player would be a star (or at least Foye wouldn't). But with Foye (SG), Brewer (SF) and, say, Brandon Jennings (PG, with the sixth pick) the Spurs could parlay Parker into three young and athletic players who could lock down the three backcourt/wing positions for years to come. Foye would be the ideal partner for Ginobili at the SG position as the starter who would defer his minutes to Manu as the 6th man while also being able to play the point on occassion. This would also free up the Spurs to trade Roger Mason for another asset(s) by taking advantage of the name he made for himself during his semi-breakout year for the Spurs this past season. I agree with Simmons that its a good idea to try to sell high with a player like Parker (and perhaps, subsequently, Mason) when a franchise is clearly in decline with its current cast and has no other true up-and-comers to keep the machine going into the next decade. I like Parker as much as the next fan, but he's simply not the indespensible be-all-end-all of the Spurs franchise that many believe him to be.
    Last edited by Steve-O-Matic; 05-22-2009 at 08:25 PM.

  3. #153
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Still assuming the Spurs could not trade TP for the same expiring and more talent. Why then would they trade him to Minny if I know, you know and everyone but Simmons knows that TP would command a much better package than Foye+16th+expiring if he were made available?

    He is also saying the Spurs cannot trade Tim, but he is just supposed to be ok with having 0 chance at another ring as long as he retires a Spur? He would asked to be traded at that point.
    Last edited by DPG21920; 05-22-2009 at 09:47 PM.

  4. #154
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    dumbest ing idea by Simmons EVER! Parker is a top 15-20 talent in the league, if you're not getting someone in that range back your family deserves a painful death.

  5. #155
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    Still assuming the Spurs could not trade TP for the same expiring and more talent. Why then would they trade him to Minny if I know, you know and everyone but Simmons knows that TP would command a much better package than Foye+16th+expiring if he were made available?
    just to take this in another direction, what about a deal like parker for love/miller/#6? maybe the spurs even throw another asset into the equation (maybe a future protected 1st, maybe add in a bowen/oberto for cardinal swap to save the twolves a couple bucks). what about leaving miller out?

    is this closer to fair value, or is it too much for a young team like the twolves to part with?
    Last edited by ss1986v2; 05-23-2009 at 03:45 PM.

  6. #156
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    just to take this in another direction, what about a deal like parker for love/miller/#6? maybe the spurs even throw another asset into the equation (maybe a future protected 1st, maybe add in a bowen/oberto for cardinal swap to save the twolves a couple bucks). what about leaving miller out?

    is this closer to fair value, or is it too much for a young team like the twolves to part with?
    That is even worse. Foye is Minny's second best player, so now the Spurs are not even getting that along with having to give up a future 1st rounder? Nothing outside of Al Jefferson would be sufficient for Parker from Minny and even then I would not want it. Love is at best a role player and cannot carry a team, same with Miller. TP is a top 3 pg, Love+Miller+16th pick will more than likely never be as good as TP is.

    Minny would not part with Al, so it is just not feasible from them. Maybe another team, but it is highly unlikely because the Spurs would require a ton to give TP up and then the team that got TP would not have the pieces to compete, so it would be useless.

    If Duncan or Ginobili was completely done, then maybe, but it would still require more than Minny could offer.

  7. #157
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    That is even worse. Foye is Minny's second best player, so now the Spurs are not even getting that along with having to give up a future 1st rounder? Nothing outside of Al Jefferson would be sufficient for Parker from Minny and even then I would not want it. Love is at best a role player and cannot carry a team, same with Miller. TP is a top 3 pg, Love+Miller+16th pick will more than likely never be as good as TP is.
    i would have to disagree. if the core of the package is love+#6 (you said #16, i assume its a typo) its pretty good value for parker IMO, especially if we are getting miller too. with jefferson out, love was putting up something like 16 & 10, so i think id probably rate him out as maybe a little more than a role player. and at #6, spurs would have access to most of the point guard prospects in this draft (rubio would be gone, and possibly jennings, depending on what happens with sactown). that plus miller aint too shabby a hall for us. if we assume bowen is cut and brought back:

    #6/hill
    manu/mason
    miller/bowen
    love/bonner
    duncan/KT/ian

    with both manu and miller able to handle the ball a bit if neccesary. thats a team with a good bit more quality in the frontcourt, with a bit of youth in the backcourt. if we are going to do something drastic, i wouldnt mind this all that much.

  8. #158
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    If you think Love is more than a role player, than that is your opinion. Zach Randolph puts up 20/10 and has been doing it for years and he is a role player. He cannot carry a team or be part of a big 3 that will win anything.

    Zach Randolph>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Love and no one would do that trade. Love has a good at ude and is a nice little player, but if you are trying to say that he will ever be on the level of TP you are crazy. He will never be an all-star, all-nba team, or a finals MVP. The number 6 pick in a weak draft is a crap shoot and Miller could be had without trading TP, so why do it?

  9. #159
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    but if you are trying to say that he will ever be on the level of TP you are crazy. He will never be an all-star, all-nba team, or a finals MVP.
    again, i think the love/randolph comparison is insulting to love (and pretty much the game of basketball). but whatever, not going to make this about love. i guess we differ on whether or not you can move parker.

  10. #160
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with the idea of trading Parker. I just think you HAVE to get back an All Star/All NBA talent in return. Trading one stud for two good players is a zero sum game. That stud can have four other players on the floor with them. The two good players can only have 3 other players playing on the floor at the same time.

  11. #161
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    I don't have a problem with the idea of trading Parker. I just think you HAVE to get back an All Star/All NBA talent in return. Trading one stud for two good players is a zero sum game. That stud can have four other players on the floor with them. The two good players can only have 3 other players playing on the floor at the same time.
    Inconsistant too. Injuries are not as much of a problem.
    agree if we trade parker we need an all around star or maybe two semi stars such as john salmon and ben gordon start hill at point now we got a team

  12. #162
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    Trading with Minnesota makes absolute zero sense for the Spurs.... and for Parker for that matter... Why would the Spurs low-ball their star point guard with that type of disservice? By sending him to the freezer that is otherwise known as Minneapolis...

    As others have mentioned... the idea of trading Parker is not completely crazy as long as the right pieces were involved...

    Los Angeles Clippers: Parker and the rights to Splitter for the No. 1 pick/Eric Gordon and Al Thorton... Parker would finally play in LA where his wife makes her living... but not for the blasphemous P&G. The Spurs would get another backcourt playmaker, and a shot at infusing the frontcourt with young talent. The Clippers could throw the right amount of money to land Splitter as soon as next season (they don't seem to care about the lux tax) and would get a top 15 NBA talent in Parker.

    Portland Trailblazers: Parker for (Bayless or Blake), Batum, and Pryzbilla. Spurs will fill key defensive holes and get back to being an elite defensive team. Parker will take the Blazers to the next level (hopefully after the Spurs have won No. 5). As FWD noted however, this would put the Blazers in elite territory. Would the multipiece upgrade to the Spurs be enough to offset that shift in power?

    OKC Thunder: Parker and the rights to Splitter for the No. 4 pick, Westbrook and Green (or Wilcox). Parker and Durant are both young and would wreak havoc on the league for years to come; Splitter is a wild card. As good as Westbrook is the Spurs would still see a downgrade at the 1 but would considerably upgrade their SF position. The No. 4 pick would force Spurs' brass to work overtime in the scouting dept. Would Ricky Rubio fall that low?

    Chicago Bulls: Parker and the rights to Splitter for Derrick Rose, the No. 16 pick and Tyrus Thomas. This trade essentially becomes a move to upgrade the Spurs' front court. Rose may eventually become as good a player as Parker but certainly would not be a downgrade. The Bulls probably don't bite on this trade, but they may be willing to shed Thomas' salary in order to avoid landing in lux tax territory and therefore have a shot at re-signing Ben Gordon.

    These scenarios are far more considerate to Parker's future than trading him to Minny and leaving him out to dry.

    That said, I don't know if the salaries match....

  13. #163
    The Last Good Sport samikeyp's Avatar
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    When trades happen, salaries have to match. How does it work with the salary cap when picks are involved? Is there a certain dollar value attached to the pick?

  14. #164
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Trading with Minnesota makes absolute zero sense for the Spurs.... and for Parker for that matter... Why would the Spurs low-ball their star point guard with that type of disservice? By sending him to the freezer that is otherwise known as Minneapolis...

    As others have mentioned... the idea of trading Parker is not completely crazy as long as the right pieces were involved...

    Los Angeles Clippers: Parker and the rights to Splitter for the No. 1 pick/Eric Gordon and Al Thorton... Parker would finally play in LA where his wife makes her living... but not for the blasphemous P&G. The Spurs would get another backcourt playmaker, and a shot at infusing the frontcourt with young talent. The Clippers could throw the right amount of money to land Splitter as soon as next season (they don't seem to care about the lux tax) and would get a top 15 NBA talent in Parker.

    Portland Trailblazers: Parker for (Bayless or Blake), Batum, and Pryzbilla. Spurs will fill key defensive holes and get back to being an elite defensive team. Parker will take the Blazers to the next level (hopefully after the Spurs have won No. 5). As FWD noted however, this would put the Blazers in elite territory. Would the multipiece upgrade to the Spurs be enough to offset that shift in power?

    OKC Thunder: Parker and the rights to Splitter for the No. 4 pick, Westbrook and Green (or Wilcox). Parker and Durant are both young and would wreak havoc on the league for years to come; Splitter is a wild card. As good as Westbrook is the Spurs would still see a downgrade at the 1 but would considerably upgrade their SF position. The No. 4 pick would force Spurs' brass to work overtime in the scouting dept. Would Ricky Rubio fall that low?

    Chicago Bulls: Parker and the rights to Splitter for Derrick Rose, the No. 16 pick and Tyrus Thomas. This trade essentially becomes a move to upgrade the Spurs' front court. Rose may eventually become as good a player as Parker but certainly would not be a downgrade. The Bulls probably don't bite on this trade, but they may be willing to shed Thomas' salary in order to avoid landing in lux tax territory and therefore have a shot at re-signing Ben Gordon.

    These scenarios are far more considerate to Parker's future than trading him to Minny and leaving him out to dry.

    That said, I don't know if the salaries match....

    Completely disagree with all of your scenarios. No team willing to contend should even consider trading a superstar for potential.

    1. Why would the Clippers do this deal having an enormous, irremovable contract at the same position? They won't give us the No.1 pick. Gordon + Thornton would not make us a better team.

    2. Portland? You want to give a good team a legid 3rd star to kick our own asses for years to come? And you get back a poor man's Rasho, a poor man's Pietrus and their 3rd string PG. That's an awful trade for the Spurs.

    3. You critisize the choice of Minneapolis but you're OK with the wonderful city of Oklahoma? No way Parker goes there.

    4. The Chicago trade makes more sense, but I think it'd probably be bad for both teams, as it doesn't solve any of the Bulls' problems and in the same time Spurs get a player who might someday improve enough to be on Parker's level. Again, it doesn't make the Spurs better during our 3-year window to contend.

  15. #165
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Completely disagree with all of your scenarios. No team willing to contend should even consider trading a superstar for potential.

    1. Why would the Clippers do this deal having an enormous, irremovable contract at the same position? They won't give us the No.1 pick. Gordon + Thornton would not make us a better team.

    2. Portland? You want to give a good team a legid 3rd star to kick our own asses for years to come? And you get back a poor man's Rasho, a poor man's Pietrus and their 3rd string PG. That's an awful trade for the Spurs.

    3. You critisize the choice of Minneapolis but you're OK with the wonderful city of Oklahoma? No way Parker goes there.

    4. The Chicago trade makes more sense, but I think it'd probably be bad for both teams, as it doesn't solve any of the Bulls' problems and in the same time Spurs get a player who might someday improve enough to be on Parker's level. Again, it doesn't make the Spurs better during our 3-year window to contend.

    Personally I wouldn't trade Parker... I was simply pointing out that there were much better options out there than what Simmons' suggested...

  16. #166
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    Personally I wouldn't trade Parker... I was simply pointing out that there were much better options out there than what Simmons' suggested...
    Yea I agree we shouldn't trade either of the big 3.

  17. #167
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    Trading with Minnesota makes absolute zero sense for the Spurs.... and for Parker for that matter... Why would the Spurs low-ball their star point guard with that type of disservice? By sending him to the freezer that is otherwise known as Minneapolis...

    As others have mentioned... the idea of trading Parker is not completely crazy as long as the right pieces were involved...

    Los Angeles Clippers: Parker and the rights to Splitter for the No. 1 pick/Eric Gordon and Al Thorton... Parker would finally play in LA where his wife makes her living... but not for the blasphemous P&G. The Spurs would get another backcourt playmaker, and a shot at infusing the frontcourt with young talent. The Clippers could throw the right amount of money to land Splitter as soon as next season (they don't seem to care about the lux tax) and would get a top 15 NBA talent in Parker.

    Portland Trailblazers: Parker for (Bayless or Blake), Batum, and Pryzbilla. Spurs will fill key defensive holes and get back to being an elite defensive team. Parker will take the Blazers to the next level (hopefully after the Spurs have won No. 5). As FWD noted however, this would put the Blazers in elite territory. Would the multipiece upgrade to the Spurs be enough to offset that shift in power?

    OKC Thunder: Parker and the rights to Splitter for the No. 4 pick, Westbrook and Green (or Wilcox). Parker and Durant are both young and would wreak havoc on the league for years to come; Splitter is a wild card. As good as Westbrook is the Spurs would still see a downgrade at the 1 but would considerably upgrade their SF position. The No. 4 pick would force Spurs' brass to work overtime in the scouting dept. Would Ricky Rubio fall that low?

    Chicago Bulls: Parker and the rights to Splitter for Derrick Rose, the No. 16 pick and Tyrus Thomas. This trade essentially becomes a move to upgrade the Spurs' front court. Rose may eventually become as good a player as Parker but certainly would not be a downgrade. The Bulls probably don't bite on this trade, but they may be willing to shed Thomas' salary in order to avoid landing in lux tax territory and therefore have a shot at re-signing Ben Gordon.

    These scenarios are far more considerate to Parker's future than trading him to Minny and leaving him out to dry.

    That said, I don't know if the salaries match....
    I like your mind set.
    It's kinda hard to trade away a player you have loved for soo long on your team, but hey it'stime to better the team and our city of San Antone. Gotta do what you gotta do. Time to fall in love with new players.

  18. #168
    @Kap10Jack Blackjack's Avatar
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    Simmons revisited . . .

    5-22-09

    Bill Simmons Mailbag

    Q: Can you please explain your asinine trade suggestion from your 5/20 chat that the Spurs should throw away Duncan's last chance at a le by trading Tony Parker to Minnesota? I just want to make sure you're the dumbest writer on ESPN.com.
    -- Anthony, El Paso, Texas

    SG: Sure. I'll even go with Hubie Brown's second-person hypothetical tense for you.

    OK, you're San Antonio. Your Duncan window is closing and so is your chance to contend. You're in NBA no-man's-land, a little like Utah from 1999-2002: 45-50 wins guaranteed, no real chance of contending, no way of getting better because they spent too many years picking at the bottom of the first round. So what do you do? You can't trade Duncan; he's an icon and has to finish his career in San Antonio. You can't get fair value for Ginobili because of his injuries and because he's an expiring contract. Your best trade chip is Parker, a good character guy coming off a career year. He's also your most replaceable guy: a gifted scorer who can't shoot 3s, isn't a traditional point guard and struggles to defend certain points. You only need to replace him with someone who can provide 80 percent of his numbers and you'll be OK. You also need to turn him into multiple pieces.

    Now, you're Minnesota. You have three keepers: Al Jefferson, Kevin Love and Randy Foye. (Note: I still like Corey Brewer but let's see how he recovers from his ACL injury.) You are a joke of a franchise with an owner who has one of the poorest reputations in the league and a fan base that doesn't care, namely because you hire failed GMs and coaches, recycle them, then expect the fans to care. Jefferson could be the best guy on a contender, Love could be the third-best guy and Foye could be a starter or a sixth man. But you're not winning anything if that's your top three. Too young, not quite talented enough. You need to acquire an experienced blue-chipper who can show everyone else the way (shades of Ray Allen and KG in Boston). And you have no chance of landing a marquee free agent because NBA players want no part of Sota when they can play for a well-run franchise in a warm city. Thanks anyway.

    So what do you do? You have to bowl someone over with a big-time offer. That's why you call San Antonio and say, "We'll give you Foye, our No. 6 pick and Brian Cardinal's 2010 expiring contract for Parker." Note: The deal can't work until July 1.

    OK, you're San Antonio again. Foye is a scoring point guard like Parker (his January/February splits: 27 games, 19.3 PPG, 40 percent 3FG), he's four years younger, he's a quality 3-point shooter, he's on the books for cheap ($8.3 million combined in '10 and '11), and between Foye and George Hill, you have a shot of replacing nearly all of Parker's numbers. Plus, you're adding the sixth pick and some much-needed young blood (maybe swingman James Harden, power forward Jordan Hill or shooter Stephen Curry); you'd have $27 million of expiring deals (Cardinal, Bruce Bowen, Fabby Oberto, Kurt Thomas, Matt Bonner and Roger Mason) for a possible mega-trade during the season; and you're selling high on Parker, who will never have more value than he does right now. You're telling me that trade doesn't make sense?

    (Well, it makes sense to everyone but Parker and Eva Longoria, who just read the last few paragraphs screaming, "Nooooooooo! Noooooooooooo!!!!!")

    Look, the biggest mistake fading contenders make is not audibling near the end of the run, when they can turn an expensive chess piece into multiple guys and an infusion of young blood. The Celtics had a chance to deal Kevin McHale (just a tad past his prime) for Sam Perkins and Detlef Schrempf in the late '80s and wouldn't do it; they could have headed into the '90s with a nucleus of Reggie Lewis, Perkins, Schrempf, Danny Ainge, Robert Parish and Larry Bird. Instead, they played the loyalty card with McHale and made the fatal mistake of dealing Ainge for Joe Kleine and Easy Ed Pinckney. You should only be loyal to franchise guys in a 30-team league. Everyone else is expendable. That's how the Spurs should be thinking. If they want to breathe new life into the Duncan era, Parker is the play. Sincerely, the dumbest writer on ESPN.com.
    My dream scenario had the Spurs landing Mayo and acquiring the fifth pick in some type of multiple team trade to draft Curry. And had it happened, I think we'd all be pretty happy about it. But seeing as this opinion caused quite the stir, I figured now was as good a time as any to revisit and see how you feel now upon reflection.

    Would you have done that trade for Foye and Curry or Jennings (or something along those lines)?

  19. #169
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    Perhaps, but I don't think you ever improve your team by trading a star for pieces. That's particularly true if you intend to send that star to a team in your own conference and solve that team's most significant problem with an elite answer.

    You might be able to get a few nice pieces from Portland for Parker, but I don't think it's feasible to get true talent-for-talent value in such a deal (since any such deal wouldn't include Roy or Aldridge) and meanwhile, you leave Portland with a 3-star core that looks a lot like the core that won the Spurs 3 les from 2003 to 2007. Even in that scenario, whatever trade you've made likely leaves you to play catchup with Portland -- among others.

  20. #170
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    the spurs can still contend next year, but they must make key moves this summer, time's a wasting......

  21. #171
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    Bill Simmons knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..Spurstalk Knowledge

  22. #172
    Veteran Ignignokt's Avatar
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    Dees r teengs we know

  23. #173
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    Parker to Memphis for Mayo, Gay and Gasol.
    Dream on.

  24. #174
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Gasol was an afterthought, Gay was leaving and Mayo was The Next Kobe last year, so this wasn't as outrageous as it seems now.


    Of course Parker was worth a lot more last year too, so it's really out of the question now.

  25. #175
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I was in favor of trading Parker at the time. For the most part, I think Simmons has good opinions. Not sure about Foye but the #6 pick, looking back, would have given us a great talent.

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