Take a note, Kobe

[Allanon]

The year Lebron and the Cavs made it to the finals, they beat the Wiz, NJ and Detroit.

Cleavland was 50-32. The Wiz were without Gilbert. NJ was 41-41 and was healthy and Detroit was 53-29 and was the number 1 seed.

LA was 45-37. The Suns were 54-28, and not nearly as good as Detroit. Suns barely eeked by a weak LA team, another weak LA team that was 47-35 and lost to the Mavs who were the number 1 seed.

The talent on both LA and Cleavland were comparable and if one was better than the other, it was not by a noticeable margin.

Big Z was an All-Star and quite possibly the best Center in the East not named Shaq back then.

Kobe didn't get an All-Star until 2008.

Give me 1 superior talent and an All-Star any day over a group of scrubs.

[Allanon]

Prove it. I listed some numbers to back up that they were comparable talents with the respective players at that point in their careers.

Zydrunas Ilgauskas All-Star 2003 & 2005

Lamar Odom All-Star, only in his dreams

So you can say that the Suns would have won a championship for certain, but you cannot say what Kobe would do with the same team in the East. That is interesting.

Best 3 teams have been in the West until the reemergence of Boston, then Magic. Anybody following the NBA knew that the West was much more powerful than the East. Even this year, the top 9 West teams are better than the 4th seed in the East.

Awesome Suns team? I already showed that they barely squeaked out a series win in game 7 against what you call one of the worst supporting cast teams of all time, then they had to do the same thing against a fluke of a Clippers team, then in the only tough series they played, got smashed by the Mavs.

How does that make them awesome?

Why are you talking about the Mavs year? I'm talking about the Spurs in 07. If not for the Amare suspension, the Suns would have pushed the Spurs to the brink and maybe even won. Cavs went on to get swept in the Finals to that Spurs team. Suns probably would have swept them as well.

Lakers lost to a damn good Suns team.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Smush Parker/Brian Cook/Maurice Evans/Kwame Brown/Chris Mihm...thats a cast?Would Lebron work wonders with the above^^^

If his head coach was Phil Jackson, Lebron would be able to beat the 2006 Suns with that supporting cast.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The 2006 Suns knocked the Lakers off with this starting lineup:

C: Boris Diaw
PF: Tim Thomas
SF: Shawn Marion
SG: Raja Bell
PG: Steve Nash

Lebron would have run a train on that team.

[Allanon]

The 2006 Suns knocked the Lakers off with this starting lineup:

C: Boris Diaw
PF: Tim Thomas
SF: Shawn Marion
SG: Raja Bell
PG: Steve Nash

Lebron would have run a train on that team.

Lebron would have gotten swept by the 2007 Suns that knocked out the Lakers.

[TheNextGen]

The 2006 Suns knocked the Lakers off with this starting lineup:

C: Boris Diaw
PF: Tim Thomas
SF: Shawn Marion
SG: Raja Bell
PG: Steve Nash

Lebron would have run a train on that team.

C: Boris Diaw > Chris Mihm
PF: Tim Thomas > Kwame Brown
SF: Shawn Marion > Brian Cook
SG: Raja Bell < Kobe
PG: Steve Nash > Smush Parker

You're crazy to think Lebron can take the 2006 or 2007 Suns team. He cant even take Orldano this year.. Shheeesh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Lebron would have gotten swept by the 2007 Suns that knocked out the Lakers.

Cute, and the Lakers lost to the 2007 Suns in 5 games............SOOOOOOOOO much better.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

C: Boris Diaw > Chris Mihm
PF: Tim Thomas > Kwame Brown
SF: Shawn Marion > Brian Cook
SG: Raja Bell < Kobe
PG: Steve Nash > Smush Parker

Hey , why exactly is Lamar Odom nowhere to be found on that?

[DrHouse]

Lebron can't even beat Orlando....a team that damn near lost to the KG-less Celtics.

[Allanon]

Cute, and the Lakers lost to the 2007 Suns in 5 games............SOOOOOOOOO much better.

Getting swept is embarrassing.

Not making the Playoffs with two future Hall of Famers is even worse.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Not making the Playoffs with two Hall of Famers is even worse.

If that's referring to the Suns, you don't have to tell me twice, it's not like I'm a big fan of their current group of players.

[Allanon]

If that's referring to the Suns, you don't have to tell me twice, it's not like I'm a big fan of their current group of players.

[stretch]

Big Z was an All-Star and quite possibly the best Center in the East not named Shaq back then.

Kobe didn't get an All-Star until 2008.

Give me 1 superior talent and an All-Star any day over a group of scrubs.

Jamaal Magliore was an all-star in the East as well.

take that all-star and push it up your ass.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Lebron can't even beat Orlando....a team that damn near lost to the KG-less Celtics.

Kobe couldn't even beat the 2006 Suns, a team that damn near lost to the LA Clippers.

[DPG21920]

Zydrunas Ilgauskas All-Star 2003 & 2005

Lamar Odom All-Star, only in his dreams



Best 3 teams have been in the West until the reemergence of Boston, then Magic. Anybody following the NBA knew that the West was much more powerful than the East. Even this year, the top 9 West teams are better than the 4th seed in the East.



Why are you talking about the Mavs year? I'm talking about the Spurs in 07. If not for the Amare suspension, the Suns would have pushed the Spurs to the brink and maybe even won. Cavs went on to get swept in the Finals to that Spurs team. Suns probably would have swept them as well.

Lakers lost to a damn good Suns team.

Got confused on the years, the year I was referencing was the Suns in 06, not 07.

Who cares if everyone knew the West was better. It is still not a fact that the Suns would have won. Was it likely? Maybe. But that is no different than saying it is likely that Kobe would not have had the heart to will the Cavs team to the finals in 07 over Detroit.

In 07, LO averaged 19 and 13 with 2 assist. In 07, Big Z averaged 12.6 and 9.7 with under 1 assist in the playoffs. So there goes that.

Going to All-Star appearances is a damn weak argument. Guys like Wally and Mo Williams are all-stars. All-Star means nothing, everyone who watches the NBA knows it is a watered down award.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Allanon, are you saying Big Z > Odom.......I highly doubt you really believe that.

[Allanon]

Jamaal Magliore was an all-star in the East as well.

take that all-star and push it up your ass.

Jamaal Magloire played like an All-Star when he was an All-Star.

Big Z played like and All-Star when he was an All-Star.

Take that and let me shove it up your mom's .

[Allanon]

Allanon, are you saying Big Z > Odom.......I highly doubt you really believe that.

Back then, yes. Right now, no.

[DPG21920]

Back then, yes. Right now, no.

Look at the numbers.

[TheNextGen]

Look at the numbers.

Why was Big Z an all star?

[stretch]

Hey , why exactly is Lamar Odom nowhere to be found on that?

LMAO LMAO LMAO

laker fans seriously underrate the value of Odom to those Lakers teams. he might irk them with his erratic play at times, but he is a quality player that has more talent than any player Lebron has ever played with. he is very Pippen like but arguably more talented (IMO he is), just never worked hard enough to be that type of player.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

We also forget the 2005 Lakers had Caron Butler, a player who became an all star once he got traded from LA.

[DPG21920]

To summarize:

1) To people that say the Lakers cast was worse than the Cavs in 05, 06 & 07, prove it. The numbers say that the cast were on par with each other with no huge noticeable difference in talent.

2) Lebron's performances in elimination games/close out games is far superior to Kobe's.

3) You cannot say for certain that Kobe would have done in the East what Lebron did with the Cavs, just like you cannot say for certain the Suns would have won a chip if not for the suspensions. There are probabilities, but not certainty.

[RsxPiimp]

He also would not have quit on his team and Kobe would not have taken Big Z, Sasha Pavlovic, Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden to a finals.

That year, in the playoffs, the next leading scorer on the Cavs was Big Z at 12.6, then Gooden at 11.4, the Hughes at 11.3

Next to Kobe, he had Odom at 19.4, Kwame at 8.6 and Walton at 7.2.

The big 3 for Lebron averaged 35.3, the big 3 for Kobe averaged 35.2

Somehow, I do believe you dont understand the importance of defense. You keep insisting on their offense, when offense was not Cleveland's strongest suit. Cavs had a 101.4 rating efficiency in 06-07. (4th in the league).

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

LMAO LMAO LMAO

laker fans seriously underrate the value of Odom to those Lakers teams. he might irk them with his erratic play at times, but he is a quality player that has more talent than any player Lebron has ever played with. he is very Pippen like but arguably more talented (IMO he is), just never worked hard enough to be that type of player.

TheNextGen just intentionally ignored him in order to help his argument......I can't believe he thought no one would notice it.

And I can see why they don't like odom, I agree he's more talented than anyone Lebron plays with, but if he was on the Suns I know his laziness and inconsistency would drive me up a wall.