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A missing Air France jet carrying 228 people...
I can't even imagine the pain the families are experiencing. Thoughts and prayers for them all.
228 is a lucky number. Maybe there will be a miracle.
A missing Air France jet carrying 228 people...
I can't even imagine the pain the families are experiencing. Thoughts and prayers for them all.
228 is a lucky number. Maybe there will be a miracle.
All I can say, is I believe there have been statistically to many Airbus crashes. Won't find me flying on one...
It is really sad but at least the french people on board will have better food in heaven.
Yes because the Atlantic Ocean is soooooooo terribly small.
Ever heard of the Intertropical Convergence Zone? Didn't think so. Try reading up on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertr...nvergence_Zone
Link please?
Please someone tell me hwo to fly around this.
still waiting...
haha dude I heard this story and was FREAKED out.
I was so going to make a similar post. Good job.
How about this:
Fatal Event Rates for Selected Airliner Models
OK, the A300 is Airbus' answer to the 727, and also similar to the 767. It has 9 events for 11.04 million flights, or .815 events per million. It has a death rate of 0.54 per million flights. The 727 has .628 events and 0.49 deaths. The 767 0.432 events and 0.4 deaths.
The A310 has 1.655 events and 1.27 deaths per million. Comparable to the 767... its not... It's more than 3 times higher!
The A320/19/21 line actually has a good relative record. 0.228 events and 0.13 deaths per million flights. Compare... The 737 has 0.493 and 0.36, the 757 is at 0.392 and 0.3.
The A340 is too new, with only 1.71 million flights by the sites statistics. Zero events so far. However, there are three flight related events listed in Wiki since 2005 for it. If I had time, or really cared about the subject, I would find a more up to date site. Anyway... Comparable to the 747 with 1.55 events and 0.76 deaths. Also the 777 with only 2 million flights, zero events and deaths. As of 4/30/2009, there were 777, 777's delivered! Only 364 A340's so far. I wonder if part of the problem is more flights per bird? Less downtime and maintenance? 364 aircraft making 1.71 million flights vs. 777 aircraft making 2 million flights...
Now when you consider how old both the 727 and 747 are, younger birds will have better records. I'd say that especially for the A310, there's no excuse for its record.
I forgot to list the A330, but the site had zero events and deaths listed with an unknown number of flights. It is comparable to the 767 and 777. There are now two events and multiple lives lost:
wiki:
On 7 October 2008, VH-QPA, an A330-303 operating Qantas Flight 72, suffered a rapid loss of al ude in two sudden uncommanded pitch down manoeuvres causing serious injuries while 80 nautical miles (150 km) from Learmonth, Australia. After declaring an emergency and safely landing in Learmonth, 14 required transportation by air ambulance to Perth for treatment, while up to another 30 also required hospital treatment. Up to a further 30 had injuries not requiring hospital treatment. Initial investigations identified a inertial reference system fault in the Number-1 Air Data Inertial Reference Unit as the likely origin of the event. On receiving false indication of a very high angle of attack, the flight control systems commanded a pitch down movement, reaching a maximum of 8.5 degrees pitch down.
On 1 June 2009, Air France Flight 447, an Airbus A330-203 en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris with 228 persons onboard was reported lost over the Atlantic Ocean. The fate of the aircraft and those on board is currently unknown, however it is feared that the plane crashed into the Atlantic Ocean and everyone on board was killed. Debris from an aircraft was located on 2 June 2009 approximately 650 km (350 nmi) north of the Fernando de Noronha islands.
Well the 727 isnt used much anymore except for in cargo. The 747 is damn old in aviation terms and probably on its way to being phased out. One of the airbus you use in comparison is .05 people dead per 1 million more than the boeing. Not a siginificant number. Another is three times more than the boeing, yet anoither is half as much as a boeing. So really not a big difference at all.
Out of 364 A340's there have been 3 incidents in 4 years?!?!?!?! Wow|!!!!!! I would say that is outstanding and would love to fly on an aircraft that is that outstanding.
You say the 777 is old at 2 million flights but hte 340 is new at 1.7? I dont get it........which is it?
Man not to take anythingaway from the people that died...I feel for them and their families...but one fatal crash for the whole series sounds pretty goddamn good to me.
How many flights are there daily with the 330?
I agree, but there aren't comparable statistics because it is such a new plane. When we are talking about incidents per million flights, it hasn't had enough flights yet to have any statistical meaning. As for how many flights per day? I don't know. I know there are about 600 in service now, and the first delivery was in 1993. The A330-203 lost a few days ago was a 2002 design variant. Anyway, my mistake on something... this is now the third A330 incident. The one I missed:
I'm not counting these incidents:On 18 July 2003, B-HYA, a Dragonair A330-342 encountered severe turbulence associated with Tropical Depression Koni over the South China Sea, during the flight KA060 from Kota Kinabalu to Hong Kong. 12 crew members and 3 passengers were injured, of which 2 crew members sustained serious injuries, but there were no fatalities. The aircraft landed safely at Hong Kong International Airport.
because they are not a flight related incident that can be shown to be a design failure. Or is the fuel exhaustion one? Was it human error, or were the gauges wrong? Did it consume too much fuel during the flight? what went wrong here?On 24 August 2001, Air Transat, Flight 236, an A330-243, performed the world's longest recorded glide with a jet airliner after suffering fuel exhaustion over the Atlantic Ocean. The plane flew powerless for half an hour and covered 65 nautical miles (120 km) to an emergency landing in the Azores (Portugal). No one was hurt, but the aircraft suffered some structural damage and blown tires.
On 15 March 2000, a 6-year-old Malaysia Airlines A330-300 aircraft was severely damaged by corrosive liquids that were being transported in the cargo hold on a passenger flight from Beijing to Kuala Lumpur. The corrosive liquid oxalyl chloride was mistakenly declared as non-toxic solid hydroxyquinoline. 18 canisters of the substance were transported via Kuala Lumpur intended to transit to Chennai. Five airport workers fell ill as they were unloading baggage from the aircraft at Kuala Lumpur after some of the canisters had leaked and chemicals spilled into the aircraft's cargo hold, resulting in extensive corrosion damage to the fuselage, wing box structure and landing gear. The aircraft was subsequently declared written-off. On 12 June 2007, a court in Beijing ordered China National Chemical Construction Corp (the owner of the cargo) to pay US$65 million to Malaysia Airlines for the loss.
I have seen a link for the determination of the fuel exhaustion but am too drunk to remember where i saw it at or the final determination.
the 330 has been in service since 1993, for thoise that are have math problems, that is 16 years. In those 16 years it has had 9 incidents, of which 4 were hull losses. One of which was on a test flight.
Soudns pretty safe to me...but then again I'm no aviation expert like you WC
Looks as if it was faulty maintenace plus pilot error that contributed to the fuel exhaustion.
I'm no expert either. I'm only going by the stats I find. Three in flight incidents aren't many, but they haven't flown as mush as other planes to have the same statistical significance. I'm probably just bothered the most by the A310's record. I cannot recall what triggered my dislike for Airbus, but it might be the A310's record. Once the A330 flies as many times as the A310 has, let's hope it doesn't have as bad of a record.I have seen a link for the determination of the fuel exhaustion but am too drunk to remember where i saw it at or the final determination.
the 330 has been in service since 1993, for thoise that are have math problems, that is 16 years. In those 16 years it has had 9 incidents, of which 4 were hull losses. One of which was on a test flight.
Soudns pretty safe to me...but then again I'm no aviation expert like you WC
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 06-03-2009 at 06:19 PM.
FERNANDO DE NORONHA, Brazil (Reuters) - Search crews flying over the Atlantic found debris from a crashed Air France jet spread over more than 55 miles of ocean on Wednesday, reinforcing the possibility it broke up in the air.
Brazilian Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said the existence of large fuel stains in the water likely ruled out an explosion, undercutting speculation about a bomb attack.
"The existence of oil stains could exclude the possibility of a fire or explosion," he said at a news conference in Brasilia. "If we have oil stains, it means it wasn't burned."
Experts said extreme turbulence or decompression during stormy weather may have caused the Airbus A330, which took off from Rio de Janeiro bound for Paris on Sunday night, to splinter over the ocean with 228 people on board.
Two Brazilian navy ships arrived in the crash area, about 685 miles northeast of Brazil's coast, but had not yet retrieved any debris by nightfall. French officials said they may never discover why the plane went down as the flight data and voice recorders may be lost at the bottom of the ocean.
Air force pilots searching the area have reported no signs of survivors. Officials said recovering bodies may be extremely difficult.
"As well as bodies sinking, you also have problems along the coast of Pernambuco (state) that you know about," Jobim said in reference to sharks. He added bodies could take several days to float to the surface.
Newly spotted traces of the plane included a 12-mile (20-km) fuel stain and various objects spread across a 3-mile (5-km) area, including one metallic object 23 feet in diameter.
The Air France plane sent no mayday signals before crashing, only automatic messages showing electrical faults and a loss of pressure shortly after it entered stormy weather.
'DESTRUCTION WAS TOTAL'
"I continue to think violent turbulence caused structural damage to the plane," said Jose Carlos Pereira, former head of Brazil's airport authority Infraero.
"Its fall was localized but destruction was total," Pereira told Reuters.
Aviation trade publications focused on warnings in recent months issued by U.S. and European regulators about electronic systems on A330s and A340s that could throw planes into sharp dives. The directives covered ADIRUs -- air data inertial reference units -- that feed crucial information to the pit to help fly planes.
With officials struggling to explain how a modern aircraft could have crashed in stormy weather that is routine on the transatlantic route, there was speculation a bomb could have caused the worst crash in Air France's 75-year history.
The airline said on Wednesday it had received an anonymous telephone warning that a bomb was on a flight leaving Buenos Aires on May 27, four days before the crash. A spokesman said the plane was checked, no bomb was found and the aircraft left an hour and a half late. He added that such alerts were relatively common.
This is such a tragic and horrible story. I cannot even begin to imagine the pain the passenger's families must be feeling right now, knowing that their wife/husband/daughter/son is somewhere at the bottom of the atlantic ocean and that's where their bodies will remain.
Also, I can't even begin to imagine the last few minutes those passengers on that plane must have gone through. Truly terrifying...it's like your worst nightmare, you're on a plane going through turbulence and there's nothing put the vast atlantic ocean beneath you and you know you have no chance of survival.
On a side note, I read a story about how an 11 year old boy was flying by himself on the plane, going home from boarding school or something. How frightened must he have been?
My heart goes out to everyone involved in this tragedy.
Brazil's air force: Debris not from Air France crash
http://www.cnn.com/The Brazilian air force said Thursday night that debris picked up near where officials believe Air France Flight 447 crashed Monday into the Atlantic Ocean was not from the plane. The announcement came after helicopters had spent the day hoisting pieces of debris from the water and dropping them into three naval vessels. It was not clear what the recovered materials were or where they were from.
Kind of weird....
UPDATED:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...ef=mpstoryviewThe Brazilian air force said Thursday night that debris picked up near where officials believe Air France Flight 447 crashed Monday into the Atlantic Ocean was not from the plane.
The news came after the Brazilian navy began retrieving debris Thursday that it believed was wreckage from the flight, which disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean.
On Wednesday, searchers recovered two debris fields and had identified the wreckage, including an airplane seat and an orange float as coming from Flight 447. Officials now say that none of the debris recovered is from the missing plane.
Helicopters had been lifting pieces from the water and dropping them on three naval vessels.
Brazilian Air Force planes spotted an oil slick and four debris fields Wednesday but rain and rough seas had kept searchers from plucking any of the debris from the water.
Officials said searchers had found objects in a circular 5-kilometer (3-mile) area, including one object with a diameter of 7 meters (23 feet) and 10 other objects, some of which were metallic, Brazilian Air Force spokesman Jorge Amaral said.
The debris was found about 650 kilometers (400 miles) northeast of the Fernando de Noronha Islands, an archipelago 355 kilometers off the northeast coast of Brazil.
Eleven aircraft and five ships are engaged in the search, including airplanes from France and the United States.
Earlier Thursday, a public interfaith service was held for the 228 victims at a 200-year-old Catholic Church in downtown Rio. Joining family members were members of the Brazilian armed forces, who are leading the recovery effort.
"Whoever has faith, whoever believes in God, believes in the eternity of the soul," said Mauro Chavez, whose friend lost a daughter on the flight. "This means everything."
Investigators have not yet determined what caused the plane to crash. The flight data recorders have not been recovered, and the plane's crew did not send any messages indicating problems before the plane disappeared.
A Spanish pilot said he saw an "intense flash" in the area where Flight 447 came down off the coast of Brazil, while a Brazilian minister appeared to rule out a midair explosion.
Meanwhile, a report in France suggested the pilots were perhaps flying at the "wrong speed" for the violent thunderstorm they flew into early on Monday before the Airbus A330's systems failed.
Le Monde newspaper reported that Airbus was sending a warning to operators of A330 jets with new advice on flying in storms.
As several ships trawled the debris site in the Atlantic, Brazil's defense minister said a 20-kilometer (12-mile) oil slick near where the plane, en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, went down indicated it probably did not break up until it hit the water.
However, both pilots of an Air Comet flight from Lima, Peru, to Lisbon, Portugal, sent a written report on the bright flash they said they saw to Air France, Airbus and the Spanish civil aviation authority, the airline told CNN.
"Suddenly, we saw in the distance a strong and intense flash of white light, which followed a descending and vertical trajectory and which broke up in six seconds," the captain wrote.
Air Comet declined to identify the pilot's name, but said he waited until landing to inform Air Comet management about what he saw. Air Comet then informed Spanish civil aviation authorities. The Air Comet co-pilot and a passenger aboard the same flight also saw the light.
But Robert Francis, former vice chairman of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, said the question of determining where a plane broke up "is a very difficult one to deal with." He told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" that "there are lots of things that cause a plane to go out of control."
He added that extremely strong winds are not unusual near Brazil. Pilots who fly over that part of the world keep track of radar and "are very, very wary about the weather as they go back and forth down in that area."
Jobim said currents had strewn the debris widely and that the search area had been expanded to 300 square miles. Watch report on the struggle to find pieces of the plane »
The Airbus A330 went down about three hours after beginning what was to have been an 11-hour flight. No survivors have been found. Map of Flight AF 447's flight path »
The NTSB said Wednesday it has accepted an invitation from the French aviation accident investigation authority, the Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses, to aid in the investigation.
The aircraft's computer system did send about four minutes of automated messages indicating a loss of cabin pressure and an electrical failure, officials have said.
Some investigators have noted that the plane flew through a severe lightning storm. Foul play has not been ruled out.
Air France had received a bomb threat May 27 for a flight from Buenos Aires, Argentina, to Paris, sources in the Argentine military and police told CNN on Wednesday. Watch as experts question whether recovery is possible »
According to the officials, who had been briefed on the incident and declined to be identified because of the ongoing investigation, the Air France office in Buenos Aires received the threat from a man speaking Spanish.
Authorities checked the Boeing 777 and found nothing. Security was tightened during check-in for Flight 415, which left on time and without incident, the officials said.
Most of the people on Flight 447 came from Brazil, France and Germany. The remaining victims were from 29 other countries, including three passengers from the United States.
French officials say they may never find the jet's flight data recorders in the ocean that experts say is up to 7,500 meters (24,600 feet) deep in the area where the plane crashed.
But Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva expressed optimism that the recorders, also known as black boxes, would be found.
The recorders are built to emit locator signals for up to 30 days. The French government has sent a research vessel carrying a deep-diving submersible to where the debris was found.
Last edited by ploto; 06-04-2009 at 09:21 PM.
there's supposedly a big metal piece floating out there, and 2 buoys and some seats... why the haven't they been retrieved yet..?!
the wooden pallet that was retrieved turned out not to be from 447.
On Wednesday, searchers recovered two debris fields and had identified the wreckage, including an airplane seat and an orange float as coming from Flight 447. Officials now say that none of the debris recovered is from the missing plane.
oops, didn't read the entire article above my post. very strange that airplane debris is NOT from 447. very weird (as ploto said...). I mean, how many other planes crashed out there?
this might have the makings of another conspiracy theory, that will be debated for years and years, like the airliner over Lockerbie.
are you allowed to bring your own parachute on the plane?
The pallet was not, but they also found a seat, which probably was from the plane.
Also they are now saying, that it might be an attack, which they said before it was not possible.
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