read the post bait.
And how can one forget game 3 of the 1993 NBA Finals?
- for a "small" guy, Johnson did an excellent defensive job on Jordan (of course, MJ was pissed off and dropped 55 in the following game)
- he also had 25 pts, 9 assists, 7 rebounds, 2 steals and 1 block
- played 62 out of the 63 minutes
Yeah, but it's not Steve, so....no.
Yeah, but it's not Steve, so....no.
Ok then
Mark is Steve's younger brother, but trust me, he looks actually 10 years older
Agreed, though KJ's mid-range game was better than Paul's, but not significantly so.
Ironically enough, KJ's nickname was "The Playmaker" according to several Suns media guides of those years.
Paul is the only player since KJ where I can say without a doubt he'll end up with 30 points or 15 assists, if not both in any game played.
I thought I was a Kidd apologist but JMJ really knows his about KJ
I remember being 11 at the time Kidd was traded and how in pissed I was. It's 75% irritating and 25% funny that they traded Kidd because he "beat his wife and was a bad character" for Stephon Marbury as if Stephon Marbury was some in choir boy.
WTF is your problem?
Pre-pubescent kids like this guy are a waste of time.
Idk what kind of at ude you want me to give you when you say I'm not a real Suns fan.
It's not like I'm hating on every player and demanding that a 65 win team currently in the finals gets blown up. I'm pissed at a team that just missed the playoffs and is headed nowhere. Forgive me for not being the most optimistic ra-ra fan in the world.
You must have been a 11 because thats not an accurate assessment of what happened.I thought I was a Kidd apologist but JMJ really knows his about KJ
I remember being 11 at the time Kidd was traded and how in pissed I was. It's 75% irritating and 25% funny that they traded Kidd because he "beat his wife and was a bad character" for Stephon Marbury as if Stephon Marbury was some in choir boy.
Kidd was traded after the 2001 finals when Iverson was the leagues biggest star. Marbury had scored 50 in a game against the Suns the year before and the Colangelos were convinced the Philadelphia "model" could work for them.
True, Kidd's domestic problems contributed to his trade, but saying that they wanted to trade Kidd simply because he was a bad character is disingenuous.
The trade would not have happened if not for the wife beating incident. My dad did in legal work for Jerry Colangelo at the time of this trade and talked to him about it so please don't tell me what happened.
The Colangelos made horrible trades because of what a player did all the time. They traded Dennis Johnson for Ricky Robey because DJ did cocaine even though half the in NBA did cocaine at the time of the trade.
Damn, how did this thread turn into a KJ - JK topic ?
because that Steve Nash loving with like 50 posts said Steve Nash was the best Sun since Charles Barkley. Any fan who watched KJ pour his heart and soul into the Suns knows that's bull .Damn, how did this thread turn into a KJ - JK topic ?
So because your dad did "legal" work for Jerry Colangelo (family law, tax law, real estate law, bankruptcy law etc. isnt specified), were suppose to believe that your dad had inside knowledge that:
1) He knew the REAL reason that Kidd was traded
2) The Suns thought that Marbury was a better individual than Kidd
Look kid, you've shown you dont have the slightest clue what you are talking about and all you are capable of is spewing profanities about every Phoenix Sun and every poster on this board who disagrees with you.
That doesnt even make sense. Kevin Johnson was on the Suns long before Barkley was traded to Phoenix. And to say the Kevin Johnson was better in his twilight years (after Barkley was traded, 96-99) than Nash is pretty stupid. You could say that he was better than Nash in his prime, but that was before Barkley.
So saying Nash is the best Sun since Charles Barkley is saying Nash is better than the likes of Kidd, Marbury, Marion etc. which is a pretty reasonable claim considering the MVPs, playoff wins etc.
Your timeline is all jacked up because you dont have a clue what you are talking about.
ANd you can't forget about Paul Westphal
He was spectacular, had great fundamuntals, and was a great compe or
Those who watched the famous 3OT game of the 1976 NBA Finals know what I mean.
He wouldn't give up
Again, not who the best player is, who had the better Suns career. KJ had a way better Suns career than Nash did and KJ's Suns career ended after Barkley's did.
KJ is drastically under appreciated by the mainstream media. I think KJ deserves to be in the HOF. Basketball-reference.com says KJ has a 40% chance based upon statistical equations. The same site says that KJ was a top-50 player in career efficiency. In his prime years, he was often a top-5 player in the NBA in this category based on the sites equation. Also, according to the site, KJ was the 12th best All-Time in offensive rating.I thought I was a Kidd apologist but JMJ really knows his about KJ
I can't claim to know what this means or even how they got it, but the site has always served me with accurate statistical info and analysis, so I put a decent amount of trust in their conclusions.
basketball-reference is tha with stats.
I like basketball-reference a lot too. Anyone got other stat sites they like, other than the usual haunts?
Hoopsstats.com
Quite possibly the greatest statistical site there is for analysis.
I love basketball-references as well
I don't know other similar ones; I think bb-reference is hard to beat
82games.com has some cool features.
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809PHO5.HTM
This IMO presents indisputable evidence Shaq was the Suns' best overall player last year.
According to that site, the Suns would be better if they just flatly cut Shaquille Oneal. Which goes along with my theory that the Suns would be better off without him:
http://www.82games.com/0708/07PHO15D.HTM
According to that site, when Shaq is on the floor, the number of points scored goes down while the number of points allowed goes up.
The number assists the Suns have drops by five percent when Shaq steps on the floor while the number of assists given up increases by 4%.
The number of turnovers committed goes up while the number of turnovers forced goes down.
The number of blocked shots actually goes down.
The only category that he consistenly helps the Suns in is rebounding.
If you look at Nash's numbers:
http://www.82games.com/0708/07PHO15D.HTM
The Suns improve in nearly every category (including rebouding) when Nash steps on the floor. The only major negatives would be that the number of assists opponents get increases by 4% and oppenent FG% increases (for which Shaq had no effect).
I guess this explains why they're 2-5 without Shaq last year you .
Please post the page supporting your argument.
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