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I heard a story on BBC (I think) of a small French electrical company that rewarded 10 of its employees with a free trip to Brazil. How tragic.
How can they all lose consciousness like that without having at least SOME sort of warning? That's never happened before has it?
Either way, just read an AP update that they've dound a total of about 17 bodies already so far and hundreds of personal items belonging to the passengers, i.e. Laptops, plane tickets, etc. but aren't giving out the details so as not to upset the families.
I can't even imagine, but they say the plane most likely definitely broke up in midair.
I heard a story on BBC (I think) of a small French electrical company that rewarded 10 of its employees with a free trip to Brazil. How tragic.
no oxygen if the cabin pressure dropsHow can they all lose consciousness like that without having at least SOME sort of warning? That's never happened before has it?
Either way, just read an AP update that they've dound a total of about 17 bodies already so far and hundreds of personal items belonging to the passengers, i.e. Laptops, plane tickets, etc. but aren't giving out the details so as not to upset the families.
I can't even imagine, but they say the plane most likely definitely broke up in midair.
why do you oxygen bags fall down?
17 bodies found so far btw
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...edName=topNews
Theories about the crash have focused on the possibility that airspeed sensors malfunctioned, leading the pilots to set the wrong speed as the plane passed through storms.
French air investigators said on Saturday that Airbus had detected faulty speed readings on its A330 jets ahead of last week's crash and had recommended clients replace a sensor.
The head of France's air accident agency (BEA) said in a news conference that it was too soon to say if problems with the pressure-based speed sensors were in any way responsible for the disaster.
"Some of the sensors (on the A330) were earmarked to be changed ... but that does not mean that without these replacement parts, the (Air France) plane would have been defective," BEA chief Paul-Louis Arslanian said.
Airbus confirmed it issued a bulletin asking the plane's 50 or so airline operators to consider changing the speed sensors, known as Pitot tubes, but it said it was an optional measure to improve performance and not related to safety.
The date of the bulletin was not immediately clear, and an Air France spokesman said he did not yet know whether the sensors had been changed on the stricken jet.
FLURRY OF MESSAGES
The doomed Air France plane sent 24 automated messages between 0210 GMT (9:10 p.m. EST) and 0214 GMT (9:14 p.m. EST) indicating a series of system failures before it vanished, Arslanian said.
In the middle of this stream of data was one message showing inconsistent speed readings from the A330's sensors.
The messages also showed that the autopilot was off, though it was impossible to say whether it had disengaged itself, as it is designed to do when it receives suspect data, or whether the pilot had decided to turn it off
Yea, but I meant, what would cause the cabin pressure to drop like that all of a sudden? Just because the plane flew through some turbulent weather? Regardless, what a horrific story.
Also, is it true that dead bodies in water eventually float to the top after a few days? I read that somewhere, but wasn't sure if it was true and why....
they bloat
cause of the gasses in your stomach not being able to leave
1P1--this explains it.Yea, but I meant, what would cause the cabin pressure to drop like that all of a sudden? Just because the plane flew through some turbulent weather? Regardless, what a horrific story.
Also, is it true that dead bodies in water eventually float to the top after a few days? I read that somewhere, but wasn't sure if it was true and why....
andIt depends how quickly and at what al ude it happens. The loss of the Helios Airways Boeing 737 near Athens on Sunday may have been the result of a drop in cabin pressure.
Paradoxically, a rapid drop can be easier to deal with because it is so obvious. Within seconds, objects which are not tied down will be blown out of the breach, the temperature inside will drop to -30C or below, and water vapour in the air will condense into a thick mist.
Airliners fly at an al ude of about 9-10,000m, where atmospheric pressure is only a third of that at sea level. "The primary problem is low oxygen," says Professor Frances Ashcroft, a physiologist at Oxford University. Low pressure would cause little more than discomfort in the ears and eyes, but the associated drop in oxygen levels makes people pass out if they do not put their oxygen masks on within about 15 seconds. While such rapid loss of pressure can be managed by the crew, "gradual loss of pressure is far more insidious," she says.
Dr Graham Braithwaite, an aviation safety expert at Cranfield University, agrees: "Pressure sensors work better if it's a sudden loss than a gradual one." If a warning does not sound, reduced oxygen levels are surprisingly easy to miss. When the pressure drops to the equivalent of about 3-6,000m al ude, the crew will still be awake, but will suffer from light-headedness, fatigue and euphoria. Under these conditions, the pilot will be too confused to fly the aircraft properly, and may not even realise there is a problem.
Several pioneers of hot air ballooning died during high-al ude flights, because their judgment was so clouded they could not tell when to put their oxygen masks on. Ashcroft speculates that this might explain what happened on Sunday.
The cause of the crash remains mysterious, though. "Loss of pressure shouldn't lead to a catastrophic loss like this," Braithwaite says. Pilots train for cabin pressure loss, and know to bring their aircraft down into thicker, warmer air.
The loss of cabin pressure -- an apparent factor in the crash of a Helios Airways flight that killed 121 near Athens on Sunday -- is a rare event in commercial planes and requires a quick response, aviation experts said yesterday.
Airline crews are trained to don masks immediately when they hear the alarm that alerts the crew to a sudden loss of cabin pressure. Passengers and crew have more time to don their masks if the plane is flying at lower al udes when decompression occurs.
Investigators in Athens said there were several signs a loss of cabin pressure could have caused the accident. Greek authorities said they do not believe the tragedy was a terrorist act, but they likely won't know the actual cause of the crash for months or longer.
Fighter pilots reported seeing the co-pilot slumped over his seat, and oxygen masks deployed in the cabin, according to news reports. The wreckage showed that oxygen masks had been deployed. The flight crew did not respond to repeated calls from air traffic control and fighter pilots who watched it descend from 34,000 feet until it hit the ground, a possible sign they were unconscious.
Developments yesterday hampered the inquiry, as the plane's pit voice recorder was reported to be in poor condition from the impact.
A coroner reported that a preliminary examination of six bodies indicated that the passengers were breathing and their blood was circulating before impact, according to a Reuters report. If cabin decompression was a factor, passengers and crew aboard the Boeing 737 did not have much time -- most likely, seconds -- to don oxygen masks, aviation experts said.
For example, passengers have 20 to 30 minutes to get the masks on if the plane is flying at 18,000 feet, while those on a plane flying at 35,000 feet would have 30 seconds to a minute because oxygen is more scarce at higher al udes, according to Federal Aviation Administration research. After that, passengers could lose consciousness or have very little cognitive ability, according to FAA expert Rogers V. Shaw II.
A loss of oxygen, known as hypoxia, slows a person's physical responses and ability to think. Vision becomes impaired. Some people feel euphoric while others feel fatigue and dizziness. Some become nauseated and others hyperventilate.
Shaw said passengers can recover quickly if oxygen is restored soon enough. "If you get a couple breaths of oxygen, the recovery rate is instant," he said.
A loss of cabin pressure was determined to be the cause of a Learjet crash in 1999 carrying golfer Payne Stewart. In that case, the plane's crew did not respond to air traffic controllers shortly after being cleared to climb to 39,000 feet. The plane flew for nearly four hours before it crashed near Aberdeen, S.D., killing all aboard. The National Transportation Safety Board could not determine what caused the loss of cabin pressure.
The FAA requires one member of a flight crew to wear an oxygen mask when flying at 25,000 feet or above if the other crew member leaves the pit for any reason. It was unclear yesterday whether Greek officials have the same requirement.
Many passengers do not realize that the instructions they receive about how to put on the mask and tug on the line to get the flow of oxygen going should be carried out in a matter of seconds, experts said.
"That's why we say put on your own mask first and then assist a child," said Candace K. Kolander, coordinator of air safety, health and security for the Association of Flight Attendants. "If you don your child's first, then you could pass out and then you're good to no one. If for some reason the oxygen masks drop, it really is serious."
Kolander said that if a plane loses cabin pressure, passengers also should expect a drop in temperature and a quick descent as the flight crew tries to get the plane to a lower al ude, where there is more oxygen. The plane's emergency system should provide passengers with about 10 minutes of oxygen.
Ahh, interesting. Thanks for the explanations.
Why are you glad you didnt know?
Why wouldnt she have?
I call bull . What does he do at AF?
Not a lot of time to react could be part of the reason. Plus even if the passengers put on the oxygen it would have done them no good if the pilots didnt as well.
Heres a chart on oxygen and al ude
Al ude (ft) Time of Useful Consciousness
18,000 20-30 minutes
22,000 10 minutes
25,000 3-5 minutes
28,000 2-3 minutes
30,000 1-2 minutes
35,000 30 seconds to 1 minute
40,000 15-20 seconds
43,000 9-12 seconds
50,000 9-12 seconds
funny video here too, sorry ive forgotten how to embed youtube vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLQMupV3DLk
Ive been in there and watched the guy next to me be 100% sure that a square peg does fit in a round hole.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/eu...ash/index.html
PARIS, France (CNN) -- At least some of the bodies recovered from the Air France crash this month had broken bones, Brazilian authorities have told French investigators, evidence that suggests the flight broke apart before hitting the ocean.
Paul-Louis Arslanian, director of the Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses, the French accident investigation board, said Thursday that Brazilian medical examiners had given that information to his agency.
Asked whether the information included reports that the recovered bodies from Flight 447 had fractures to arms, legs and hips, and few had any clothing, Arslanian said yes.
All of that, aviation experts have said, points to a mid-air rupture of the plane at about 35,000 feet.
There is still no explanation of what brought down the Airbus A330, which was en route from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Paris, France when it crashed in the Atlantic on June 1.
Arslanian pleaded Thursday for the media and the public to stop speculation about the cause of the Air France crash.
A major Brazilian newspaper reported this week that 95 percent of the bodies so far had shown fractures in the legs, arms and hips similar to injuries found in people who fall from great heights. The newspaper O Estado de Sao Paulo cited unnamed officials who are part of the investigation.
Another clue is the low incidence of cranial trauma, the newspaper reported. If the aircraft had nose-dived into the ocean, victims would have more head injuries, the paper said.
A large number of bodies also had red lesions in their mucous membranes, which the paper said is usually associated with asphyxia, or lack of oxygen.
Another major Brazilian newspaper, the Jornal do Brasil, cited information from an unnamed person from the Brazilian military who has access to the teams working in the recovery of the plane. This person told the paper that bodies were found "mutilated" with no clothing, a strong indication of violent depressurization caused by a structural rupture.
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