First off, I agree with the assessment that Gortat is the best available FA big that the Spurs have a fighting chance to sign and I would support taking the risks associated with offering him a full MLE deal. Of course, my money and my job are not on the line.
But we also must understand that deals for all or most of the MLE are longshot bets that fail much more often than they succeed. The Spurs operate with a very small margin of error. If they use the full MLE on a bust, the damage will be serious and long lasting.
I think, however, that the Spurs have reached the point where risky gambles are unavoidable if they hope to make at least one more championship run before TD retires.
If you wan to draw some legit conclusions from stats, you had to be a little rigorous when you look at them. Otherwise, stats can say everything and its contrary.
I'm sorry to say it but you aren't enough rigorous here.
Spurs are limited with the luxury tax. The more money you spend on a player, the less money you have for other players.
I find that paying Gortat more than $5M per year isn't a good deal and would more hurt than help.
At this point we need to be realistic. The spurs are not going to spend big bucks (more than 5 mil) on a guy after a couple of good playoff games. Both Bruno and benefactor make some very interesting points but in the end its all about the team salary.
You know what I get from this? I get "stats only matter when I cite them and they support my argument." You cling to your defensive rebounding percentage stat like its some kind of holy grail...but the reality is that Dallas pulled down 10 more boards per game in those losses. Playoff losses that led to elimination.
Whatever. You are going to believe what you want...so I am done here.
This is pretty much where I am. After Duncan retires there is a good chance that we will be a middle of the pack team for an extended period of time. Gortat may or may not work out...but with the way the other contenders are structured we have to start gambling on pieces that we need to remain in the hunt.
I would rather not gamble 6+ mil on a player who simply has played well (not great) during a playoff run. I feel a Jerome James kind of contract coming from somebody with the same result. Just my opinion.
they actually played him with Howard tonight and it didn't go to well. Him passing up open jumpers and/or missing what he did take badly wouldn't bode well for playing next to Duncan.
I figured someone would take this one game and try to make an argument against us getting him.
When you don't do something routinely, then try to make it work in the finals it is probably not going to work out all that well. Yes, he had a pretty bad game overall...but it's hard to know what to do when you are thrown into an situation that you are unfamiliar with.
Actually, it would probably be different with Duncan because Gortat would spend more time around the rim and Duncan would be on the outside more. The Spurs are already moving to this strategy more as they want to extend Duncan's usefulness by having him take less of a pounding on the block.
yes, how dare someone observe how he played, the outrage!
I have to agree with Bruno here. Gortat is a good player but he just doesn't fit. Anything Gortat gives you on the boards and on defense will be negated by the fact that he has no offensive game. Gortat survives on the Magic because they literally don't use an interior player when he's in the game more than 90% of the time. But in San Antonio, where each member of the Big 3 is best in the paint, having Gortat as one of the other two players on the court will just cause way too much congestion.
All teams would do is leave Gortat open and pack the lane and the Spurs' offense would stall. The bigman next to Duncan has to have some level of skill to survive. If Gortat had a post game, a jumper, passing ability or anything of note, I'd consider enter the bidding war. But he has no offensive game at all. If you stop him from dunking or laying it up, he's toast.
Defensively, yeah he'd be a very nice addition. Rebounding-wise, he'd make the Spurs an even better rebounding team. But his utter lack of any offensive game would cancel all of that out. You can say Duncan will play the high post but that's not even the biggest issue. The biggest issue is that the opponent's would use Gortat's man to clog up lanes for the Big 3. Teams wouldn't have to respect Duncan's drives, they could much easier shut down the lane on Parker and they could send extra help at Ginobili.
I know it's difficult to turn down a good bigman when the Spurs are currently starting Bonner but Gortat isn't the answer for what he's going to make this summer.
Looking at total rebounding numbers is a bad thing for two reasons :
First, if your team miss 50 shots and the other one 40, it's logical to be outrebounded.
Second, it doesn't make the difference between offensive and defensive rebounding. And these are two different things.
In the Lakers and Mavs series, Spurs did a great job at limiting opponents offensive rebounds. They also did a very poor job at crashing the offensive boards. There isn't a lot of argue about that because it's simply a fact.
ORLANDO'S GORTAT ON KNICKS RADAR
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06082009...dar_173166.htm
I would agree if the Spurs didn't need 2 or 3 new bigs for their roster. the major need is for sure to find a legit #2 in the big rotation and Gortat isn't the answer for this, but I still can see him find a niche in the Spurs front court. he is a fantastic offensive rebounder, so even if he doesn't deliver much on offense, the few points are usually points the Spurs currently can't get by their players. 4th man in the frontcourt rotation, playing 15-20 minutes, isn't a bad idea IMO.
the point is, this makes only sense, if he signs for small money and even if he did sign for something like BAE, it wouldn't help, because that kind of offer the Magic would match anyhow.
Once again, can somebody say Jerome James II.
Come on. Gortat may well prove to be overpaid if he receives the full MLE, but there is almost no chance he becomes a paycheck thief like Jerome James. That guy has played in only 89 games over the last four years, including only 15 minutes in the last two seasons combined. Gortat is in shape and 5 years younger than JJ was when he signed with Knicks.
Agreed.
Despite all the reasons some have given why the Spurs should not to look at this kid at a possible FA acquisition, I believe his rebounding prowess is a huge reason why they should. Furthermore, based on what I've seen of him in the playoffs, he has a better offensive game that he's shown in the NBA Finals.
Last edited by SenorSpur; 06-08-2009 at 09:49 AM.
I actually figured you would go the "missed shots" direction. That's one of the reasons I cited the Mavericks out rebounding us so badly. The funny thing is it actually solidifies my argument that we need to move away from the shooting center and more towards someone who may not be quite as versatile offensively but can shore up the defense...which, as I said previously, is the reason our trophies are in the case today. And again, you can plug in a percentage if you want to for that whole Dallas series and make the statement that we did a good job limiting the offensive boards...but we gave up 24 offensive boards in the final two games. Any way you slice it that is just plain bad.
I look at it like this. We decided to sacrifice defense for more scoring this season. Many of us predicted it would be a serious crap shoot, and of course it failed miserably. Matt Bonner and Michael Finley combined to shoot 8-30 in the last three games...and not only did they shoot poorly but they didn't rebound or defend(Bonner had a few decent sequences versus Dirk, but that is pretty much canceled out with all the bad). So we chose to go a certain direction but lack the personnel to execute it. It was suicide from the beginning.
Now the cir stances have changed. We have been able to get away with having a pedestrian defender at the C spot over the years because of Duncan...but this is no longer the case, especially with the front lines that the playoff contenders now employ. A good defender/rebounder/shot blocker is becoming a priority now more than ever with our short championship window...even if that person is a bit limited offensively(As SenorSpur pointed out, Gortat is actually not as bad offensively some suggest). If we are going to get scoring, it has to come from upgrades at the SG/SF position, or possibly a SF/PF type player.
I say all that to say this...there are multiple issues on this team to get it back to a championship level. Gortat is not the end all but would be a nice piece and a necessary addition that fills a glaring need.
The Spurs will probably hope that 3 guys will split the MLE so this guy is out.
Spurs likely wont get a crack at this guy
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...pursue_gortat/
Knicks Will Pursue Gortat
With their midlevel exception, the Knicks will search for a defensive center and Orlando's Marcin Gortat is high on their list.
Gortat was drafted by the Suns in 2005 when Mike D'Antoni was their head coach. His draft rights were subsequently traded.
Gortat told the New York Post he would welcome a move to New York.
"I love New York, I can tell you that," Gortat said. "It was the first city I landed when I landed in the states five years ago. I love Coach D'Antoni and I know [Danilo] Gallinari from Europe."
Otis Smith can match any offer, but said he knows it will be a financial challenge to retain Gortat.
"He's got the best job in America, playing behind my best player, playing 8 to 10 minutes," Smith said. "He goes out and does his job and probably has the best work ethic of anyone in the locker room. Can he start for another team? Yeah he can.
"I'll just deal with it and the market will dictate where he goes," Smith added.
Yeah...probably not. If the MLE with max raises is as high as Bruno says it is I don't know that I would want to play quite that much anyway. Who knows...perhaps he will be drawn to our international flavor for a discount.
Everyone always thinks players will play for the Spurs for cheaper. Not happening with any kind of regularity.
The way things are shaping up, I would rather just stand pat unless you can get an absolute steal of a trade or FA, and see how things shake out with the big 3 up until the trade deadline.
I am not interested in the team getting marginally better and adding salary. Make a few small moves, add some youth and cap friendly players, develop them and go for 2010.
(FWIW) Alan Hahn of Newsday's blog:
* - As for the talk about Marcin Gortat....seriously, I can not see them giving up the valuable mid-level exception for Marcin Gortat. Sure, there is interest and the Knicks like what he can do, just like a lot of teams do. But some guys are what they are and Gortat, I believe, is a backup center and, therefore, exactly where he should be. That money can be better spent elsewhere.
He is competing for minutes with Dwight Howard. On the Spurs he'll be competing with KT, Ian, and Bonner. Just cuz he's a backup on one team doesn't mean he shouldn't start anywhere.
http://www.nba.com/2009/playoffs2009....ap/index.html
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Magic backup center Marcin Gortat has been getting a little extra attention in the NBA Finals.
About a dozen journalists from his native Poland have been covering his every move during the series. His blocks on Cleveland's LeBron James in the Eastern Conference finals elevated his celebrity status, and getting playing time against the Lakers hasn't hurt.
Gortat said TV stations back home have been fighting to broadcast his playoff games. His surprising play in the playoffs has led to so many phone calls that he feels "like the Dwight Howard of Poland."
"I'm scared to go home," Gortat said. "If I get any more popular, I'll run for President."
Gortat has been playing solid minutes in the playoffs. He filled in for the suspended Howard in the Game 6 clincher against Philadelphia in the opening round and has seen more minutes in the finals to try to combat the Lakers' size inside.
Gortat will be a restricted free agent this summer and is likely due a hefty pay raise that the Magic might not be able to afford.
A full MLE deal from the Knicks is probably imminent.
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