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Exactly. What team couldn't benefit from the addition of an all-star to their lineup FOR FREE?
Al Jefferson will eventually iron out the defensive aspects of his game. I expect hims to be an All-Star someday. His game is modeled after Hakeem's after all
Exactly. What team couldn't benefit from the addition of an all-star to their lineup FOR FREE?
It wasn't just that one trade but the Allen trade as well. The trade wasn't a gift, just because a trade works out doesn't exactly mean its a gift. A gift is really just a lopsided trade that doesn't make sense for one team. Minnesota freed cap space and got a very young special talent in Al Jefferson.
I'm not really sure how Memphis benefited at all from the Pau Gasol trade. They gave up a draft pick for a draft pick, Crittenton and Brown aren't even there anymore, and even if Marc and Darrell (by some small chance) reach their full potential, they wont be nearly as good as Pau was.
No talent evaluator would compare Al Jefferson and Marc Gasol.
The point is Al Jefferson has franchise player type of skill.
Zach Randolph doesn't and the Spurs aren't in a rebuilding mode. That examples doesn't align with the main motivations of the KG for Jefferson trade.
Kevin Garnett was stuck in the lottery, too. If you are going to use the lottery against a young Jefferson, you obviously have to use the lottery against a KG supposedly in his prime.
@ comparing Jefferson to Pau's fatter brother.
This point is pretty much negated by the fact that KG was in the lottery himself. Prior to the trade, KG hadn't proved much at all. He had a ton of surrounding talent in his career and it took Cassell at his prime and good Sprewell for him to make any sort of noise in the playoffs.
Playing the loser card when Garnett is on the other side of the equation doesn't make much sense at all.
But yeah, if you want to equate Marc Gasol and Al Jefferson, this argument can't go much further. That's almost as ludicrous as Laker Fan originally claiming the trade was fair because J-Critt was supposedly the next Kobe.
No one is saying Marc Gasol is better than Al Jefferson. They're saying KG is a better forward than Pao Gasol. Which is true.
Refs
timvp's statement is basically true: The Lakers gave up nothing for Pau Gasol.
They already had a 55 win team assembled and gave up no major parts of their core for Gasol. Throwing in Bynum or Odom would've made it less lopsided.
That Marc Gasol had a good year was unexpected.
But the trade has in retrospect provided Memphis with a few young good players and salary cap relief.
The only question has to be whether there was another team that could have made a better offer.
I highly doubt the Lakers' offer was the best for Gasol, but I'm not sure.
But oh well, it might get them a le this year, but that's it. Mavs winnin this next year.
He isn't comparing them as players, just as gifts. And he is right- Kg > Al and Pau> Marc. Its obvious which trade was more loopsided of the two, but both are still loopsided non the less.
spurscenter crying like a again.
So do I. notEvery time I think about that trade I laugh..
Yep I agree with all those. When they showed the replay even Van Gundy said was there even any contact on Kobe's two free throw foul?
Hedo was also fouled I don't see how all they could call is out of bounds off of Hedo.
All I saw of this game was a few minutes of the 2nd quarter before having to go to work and it was really all I needed to see to know the magic were probably going to lose the game.
First off, somebody please tell me how Derek Fisher gets away with so much bull year after year after year? If the refs actually called every foul this little turd commits he would easily foul out of most games by the start of the 4th quarter.
In the short little time I watched the Magic did have some momentum going their way, they had just gotten Bynum to sit with foul trouble and Howard was about to serve up Lamar Odom with some dunkcake when who should come to the rescue for the flakers? Oh, of course, the refs. Fisher slapped down hard on Howard's arm (and don't try to dispute this, it was obvious) stopping Howard from dunking in Odom's face and this is somehow ruled a jump ball? W T F?
It's these types of plays that make people realize there is something fishy about the NBA. (no pun intended.)
Howard even stopped right in the middle of the play to stare at the refs in utter frustration that there wasn't a foul called on Fisher. They weren't even going to call a jump-ball until he gave them that staredown either. Proving they knew damn well they had just screwed him. They were just gonna act like nothing happened. Nope, Fisher didn't just rake Howard's arm, didn't happen.
Afterward the momentum of the game defenitely shifted in favor of the lakers, and they went on to win the game, unsurprisingly.
Bottom line? Lakers don't really need any help to beat other teams, but when they get help like this from the officials its almost a lock they will win.
Last edited by TJastal; 06-08-2009 at 05:41 AM.
Didn't say that. What I am saying is that Gasol being a second round pick doesn't mean he can't become a good or even great player that in the future ends up benefiting the Memphis Grizzlies like you assume Jefferson benefits the Timberwolves. I'm not saying Marc Gasol is as good or will be as good as Jefferson, only that he could end up being a benefit in a similar way so the trade won't, in fact, have ended up as a Pau Gasol for "nothing" trade.
That's an opinion. Currently, Al Jefferson is a 20/10 guy on lottery teams. Great individual player. Empty stats unless they actually help his team wins. Similar to the shine Elton Brand had early on in his career as a consistent 20/10 type guy who appeared to be a "franchise" player but whose shine has since faded because those stats, those skills don't help his teams win.The point is Al Jefferson has franchise player type of skill.
Zach actually has similar skill to Al Jefferson with the exception of blocking shots. Neither is particularly good defensively, Zach probably worse. But, Zach has consistent low post ability you could build an offense around. He's had multiple 20/10 seasons. You don't "perceive" him as a "franchise" type player because his off the court issues cloud your perception of him and also his basketball IQ is poor. But there's not nearly as much difference between Zach and Al as you might think. I'd take Al Jefferson over Zach any day, but it's not because of the "franchise" skill you mention. It's because of the off the court stuff, the poor basketball IQ.Zach Randolph doesn't and the Spurs aren't in a rebuilding mode. That examples doesn't align with the main motivations of the KG for Jefferson trade.
True, KG was stuck in the lottery, but these arguments often need hypothetical conjecture to be made. Would Al Jefferson on the Celtics instead of KG gotten the Celtics a le last year if they made all the other changes? I don't believe so. If KG stayed on the Wolves and they made all the other changes, would the Timberwolves still have won only 20 some odd games? I don't believe so. Al Jefferson is a great young player that puts up very good numbers. His impact on the game hasn't proven to be anything more than putting up very good individual numbers.Kevin Garnett was stuck in the lottery, too. If you are going to use the lottery against a young Jefferson, you obviously have to use the lottery against a KG supposedly in his prime.
Not comparing them as how good they are as current players. Comparing them as the main pieces in return for a "gift" trade and how both could be good players in the future. You misinterpret what I've saying.
Agreed to a certain extent. He hadn't proven he could help a team win a le or go deep into the playoffs by himself. But, he did prove early on in his career that he could help a team be good enough to make it to the playoffs. He led his team in his second year in the NBA at the ripe age of 20 to the playoffs, and as the best player on the team 8 consecutive times to the playoffs. Al Jefferson has played five years in the league. He's been to the playoffs once and that was his rookie year when he wasn't playing much, and he wasn't the player that led the team to the playoffs. There are distinctions to be made. Right now, as good as Al Jefferson is and could be, he's putting up empty stats on bad teams. Until those 20/10 stats actually help his team win, it's naive to suggest that Al Jefferson's team failures even amount to KG's team failures early on in his career.This point is pretty much negated by the fact that KG was in the lottery himself. Prior to the trade, KG hadn't proved much at all. He had a ton of surrounding talent in his career and it took Cassell at his prime and good Sprewell for him to make any sort of noise in the playoffs.
That's blatant bias against KG. KG helped his teams win enough games to make it to the playoffs. Jefferson just finished his fifth season on a 24 win team. KG's fifth season, he led the Timberwolves to a 50 win season. If you can't draw the distinction there, there's something wrong with you.Playing the loser card when Garnett is on the other side of the equation doesn't make much sense at all.
Not as current players. And, you refuse to understand that. But, fine. If you can't understand what I was saying, you're right, there isn't a need to go any further.But yeah, if you want to equate Marc Gasol and Al Jefferson, this argument can't go much further. That's almost as ludicrous as Laker Fan originally claiming the trade was fair because J-Critt was supposedly the next Kobe.
Why are fans of a franchise that purposefully tanked a season to get the #1 pick complaining about bad trades?
It´s simple, the better team is winning. Orlando is almost there, but LA has more experience and now has two big time scoring options in Kobe and Gasol as well as the only team with more talent than Orlando or Boston.
I´m glad Orlando had a shot, but this series is over. They needed game 2. I hope they put up a fight and hold home. The did show some serious improvement from game 1, but nelson still looks rusty bricking two freethrows. I think next year will be their year unless Cleveland pulls off a monster trade which unfortunately is very likely.
just keep hoping kobe splits his knee open
You don't even have to wish for injury on Ginobili anymore. It just happens.
They need to find some way, any way to discredit the Lakers for winning. Either it's the refs, or injuries, or a trade, or conspiracy or fluke shots etc, etc, etc.
I let out a what the when Magic said Gasol is the most skilled bigman in the nba last night during the postgame.
Got to LMAO at a guy justifying a trade because it will allow a team to suck so bad they'll qualify for at least two top picks. I have a great trade for you, Gasol and Kobe for Spurs' crap. LA should be able to suck enough to get four or five top 5 picks.
I like how you decided to not quote the rest of my post where I said, solid starting, Darral Arthur, two other first rounders and enough cap space to sign a 2010 free agent.Got to LMAO at a guy justifying a trade because it will allow a team to suck so bad they'll qualify for at least two top picks. I have a great trade for you, Gasol and Kobe for Spurs' crap. LA should be able to suck enough to get four or five top 5 picks.
Context is funny.
You know, it'd be a lot more productive if everyone got mad at their team for not getting Pau Gasol rather than hating on LA for doing so. I highly doubt Jerry West had a big enough impact where Memphis knowingly rejected a better offer and accepted that trade. Fact of the matter is the other teams weren't being opportunistic at all. It's not like no one knew Memphis was looking to trade Gasol, he had been on the trade block since the 2007 season. If there was really a team that offered something way better then they would have made noticable noise about the trade.
That is untrue. It is widely known that Gasol was not on the market for anyone else. That is why everyone is so peeved and not blaming their own FO.
It is a moot point now and the league just has to deal with it for the next few years. But the fact that the Grizz said they made a mistake with the trade and that the other teams were not made aware of the availability is what has people shaking their heads.
[QUOTE]I recall reading that the Bulls had a shot to get him but their FO was either too slow or indecisive about acting upon this trade. I tend to think that the reason some may view this as collusion is because Jerry West worked with the Grizzlies at one point and he was a consultant with them for a few months after he officially resigned.
.It is a moot point now and the league just has to deal with it for the next few years. But the fact that the Grizz said they made a mistake with the trade and that the other teams were not made aware of the availability is what has people shaking their heads
It should be a moot point in general. It happened; great deal for the Lakers-now it's time to get over it and move on.
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