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Losing in the final minutes = getting "stomped"
The best thing to happen to the Celtics was Bynum and Ariza getting injured last year. They got stomped when faced against a HEALTHY Lakers team.
Losing in the final minutes = getting "stomped"
Props to Kobe and his teamates. That 39 point defeat in last years game 6 may have been the best thing to have happened to this team. That has been their motivation all year and they keep it fresh in their mind especially after each victory that brings them closer to le #15. The Lakers grew some serious nuts this year and I am impressed.
Oh this is priceless.
Now the Kobe haters are ONCE AGAIN changing the parameters of their argument. First it was Kobe couldn't win without Shaq, now it's Kobe can't win without Gasol.
PRICELESS. You all have absolutely no shame and are oblivious to the truth you will no longer be able to deny.
Kobe Bryant is an incredible player, great teammate, and a leader capable of taking HIS team all the way to the top. Make no mistake, this is NOT Gasol's team, Odom's team, Bynum's team, or Phil's team. This is KOBE'S team. And he has been the leader the whole way through.
Give the man his mother ing props.
You have always been a classy Boston fan, unlike your counterpart Gino who is probably a Mavs fan in all likelihood.
Cool thread DoK.
I would agree that it was definitely said that Kobe cant win without Shaq. And that was true. Take Shaq off that team and they were nothing. They couldnt even make the playoffs. Just shows how crappy those role players were and how good Shaq made them look.
Kobe doesnt do that. You have to surround him with the best supporting cast in the league and hope he doesnt screw it up (like he did last year).
To be fair, that 2005 team had practially no one from 2000-2004. The Lakers were slotted in the 8th spot before Kobe got hurt.
I dont think you have room to letcure anyone on being classy.
Let's face it...Kobe was nothing with the Lakers before they were handed Gasol on a silver platter. And as sad as the National Media wants to hype up guards like Kobe, Wade, etc...the league is STILL a big man's game plain and simple. Without a post-presence, a team isnt going to win jack . Going all the way back to 1999.
'99- Duncan & Robinson
00' thru 02'- Shaq
03'-Duncan & Robinson
04'- The Wallaces
05'- Duncan
06'- Shaq
07'- Duncan
08'- Garnett
09'- Either Gasol or Howard
Bottomline is, before Gasol arrived in L.A the "big man" in L.A. was Kwame ing Brown and Chris Mihm. Now you know why Kobe didnt win with those guys. Now that Gasol is there, it completes Kobe. So I can't believe I'm saying this but dont just bash Kobe, bash everyone if they didnt have a big man. Tony and Manu wouldnt be the same without Tim. Wade wouldnt have won it without Shaq. The Pistons wouldnt have won it without the Wallaces. Kobe wouldnt have won it without Shaq. And now Kobe has another big man alongside him, Pau Gasol...who without him, might not have enough to win it.
And the next year? And the next year?
Gasol has surprised me at times the way he has come out in pressure situations but Lamar and espescially Ariza is to me is what I call contract es. They are out there playing for money as soon as they get paid they will mail it in for the next several years.
You said they weren't making the playoffs with Kobe playing.
Well the Lakers will probably only be able to keep one so the Lakers better enjoy this season because thats gonna be it if they cant keep Odom.
Kobe and Gasol arent enough to win a championship and Bynum cant decide whether he's bust or not.
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? You just opened your mouth and stuck both feet in.
There were practically no role players from the '00 championship teams that were left when Shaq departed outside of the rookie Luke Walton. If you're trying to compare the role players Kobe and Shaq had during their championship run with the role players Kobe had the next 3 seasons after Shaq left you are even dumber than I thought.
Rick Fox
Robert Horry,
Derek Fisher,
Ron Harper,
Brian Shaw,
Horace Grant,
Glen Rice,
Karl Malone,
Gary Payton
The '00-'04 Laker teams had some of the best and most underrated supporting casts ever. You can't ask for a better group of grizzled vets to surround your superstars with. There is a reason why the '01 team went ing 15-1 in the playoffs and why the Lakers were able to rattle off 3 straight championships. Without Fisher, Horry, and Fox the Lakers simply don't win 3 straight championships.
You're seriously trying to compare the group I described above with this:
Kwame Brown,
Smush Parker,
Brian Grant,
Chucky Atkins,
Luke Walton
When you surround Kobe with talent he produces. The two years he's had a quality supporting cast he's gotten to the Finals twice and is on the cusp of winning a championship.
Just save us the bull and say what we all know is true.
You are a hater.
Um...the Lakers were out of the playoffs when Kobe went down at the tail end of 2005. I remember quite clearly.
Please let pho do well so there can be an eat crow about Nash thread next year...
You give Kobe the role players that existed on the '00 to '04 championship teams and he's most definitely making the playoffs.
He's only missed the playoffs once in his career. He's been to the Finals in 6/12 seasons. He will have 4 championship rings if the Lakers win this season, tying Duncan and Shaq. You can TRY and discredit him all you want, but at the end of the day results are all that matters.
Kobe is a great player, great teammate, and great leader. And he will have the HW to prove it. And there is NOTHING you can say to deny that.
What a ing bag you are. Becasue Lamar Odom wasnt on the team in 2005? Why include him when that just DESTROYS your argument, huh? Not to mention you include Gary Payton and Karl Malone even though
THEY DIDNT WIN A SINGLE ING CHAMPIONSHIP WITH MALONE AND PAYTON YOU IDIOT!!!
2002 Lakers championship roster:
Kobe Bryant, Joseph Crispin, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Devean George, Horry, Lindsey Hunter, Mak Madsen, Mdevendenko, Oneal, Penberthy, Mitch Richmond, Brian Shaw, Samaki Walker.
Now, compare that to their 04-05 team:
Chuck Atkins, Kobe Bryant, Caron Butler, Brain Cook, Devean George, Brian Grant, Jumain Jones, Medvedenko, Chris Mihm, Kareem Rush, Luke Walton, Vujacic and your favorite and mine, Lamar Odom.
Looks like the same type of players to me. The main difference is one has Shaq and the other doesnt. You put Shaq on that Lakers 2005 team and take away Kobe and no doubt they at least make the playoffs.
What a ing bag you are. Becasue Lamar Odom wasnt on the team in 2005? Why include him when that just DESTROYS your argument, huh? Not to mention you include Gary Payton and Karl Malone even though
THEY DIDNT WIN A SINGLE ING CHAMPIONSHIP WITH MALONE AND PAYTON YOU IDIOT!!!
2002 Lakers championship roster:
Kobe Bryant, Joseph Crispin, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Devean George, Horry, Lindsey Hunter, Mak Madsen, Mdevendenko, Oneal, Penberthy, Mitch Richmond, Brian Shaw, Samaki Walker.
Now, compare that to their 04-05 team:
Chuck Atkins, Kobe Bryant, Caron Butler, Brain Cook, Devean George, Brian Grant, Jumain Jones, Medvedenko, Chris Mihm, Kareem Rush, Luke Walton, Vujacic and your favorite and mine, Lamar Odom.
Looks like the same type of players to me. The main difference is one has Shaq and the other doesnt. You put Shaq on that Lakers 2005 team and take away Kobe and no doubt they at least make the playoffs.
Classic. Boston fans are even dumber than I thought.
Classic. Boston fans are even dumber than I thought.
Yeah, cuz a team with Shaquille Oneal and Lamar Odom and Caron Butler couldnt make the playoffs.
The only thing that Kobe has proven is that he's still an un-desirable teammate who needs a huge talent discrepancy in his favor in order to beat anyone (and even then its risky...just ask Houston
Kobe's supporting cast is really good this year but it's not as if there's 15-20 players who could lead this team to a le.
Kobe, Lebron, Wade... maybe 2-3 more players? maybe?
Kobe is the straw that stirs the drink.
Yeah, cuz a team with Shaquille Oneal and Lamar Odom and Caron Butler couldnt make the playoffs.
The only thing that Kobe has proven is that he's still an un-desirable teammate who needs a huge talent discrepancy in his favor in order to beat anyone (and even then its risky...just ask Houstonyou just keep saying one dumb thing after another. You have to be a Mav troll, nobody is this stupid.
Okay, take Kobe off a team of Odom, Gasol, Bynum, Ariza, Fisher etc. and replace with:
1) Paul Pierce
2) Kevin Garnett
3) ...even JOE JOHNSON would probably be able to take that much talent to the Finals!!
4) LeBron
5) Wade
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitski
8) Steve Nash
9) Chris Paul
10) Deron Williams
Serious...take Kobe off the team and put any of those guys on and tell me it wouldnt be an awesome team.
Thats just off the top of my head.
Ah yes, the proverbial ad hominem arguement. Educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
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