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Better to trade away a player a year too early than a year too late.
Manu haters always fall in the same trap - they claim he's injured, worthless, washed up but they expect us to get younger, talented and athletic players for him.
Somewhere the logic is not right. Either he's good enough to entice other teams to give us great players, or he's washed up and done, in which case we can't expect to get anything that has more value to the team than his expiring 10 mil contract...
Better to trade away a player a year too early than a year too late.
That's it. I'm sending SequSpur a friend request. He better accept!!
Indisputable logic.
Manu could possibly bring some younger in pieces in return. In the long run, such a trade could be beneficial for the franchise. In the short run, the team is much less likely to be ranked among the elite. If you are willing to sacrifice the short term for the long term, then that is a fair position.
Most of the "trade Manu" crowd, however, seem to think that there is trade out there that makes the Spurs better immediately AND improves their long-term outlook. When asked to propose some such realistic possibilities that benefit the Spurs and their trading partners, these posters either leave the thread or fall back on some response like "well that's the job of the FO".
It's the same with the "fire Pop" and the "FO sucks" bunch. They rant and complain, but rarely suggest realistic alternatives.
I dont mind trading Oberto too, so does that make us Oberto haters?!
No!
You did not even get my point there.
Doesnt matter,lets toast with some Uruguayan Grappa Miel.
No, no! I always think about the long run. Ive said numerous times, to secure our future, that does not mean next year, but the years after. Im looking in the future. For the beneficial of the spurs in the long run. That's why I want the Spurs to focus on young players now, who can be bright in the future and so we can have the benefits of them later.
I don't think that you are among those I referred to in the sentence you bolded. Look at the sentence right before that where I said: If you are willing to sacrifice the short term for the long term, then that is a fair position.
As much as I love Manu and what he's done for this team, I agree with this.
We have to rebuild at some point, when is a good time to do that? 2-3 years?
I don't see how this is a justifiable position.If you are willing to sacrifice the short term for the long term, then that is a fair position.
It is widely recognized that our window as a contender is until 2012. Because of this we are in a "win now" mode more than ever before. It makes no sense whatsoever to look too much into the future beyond the summer of 2012, it is then when we'd have to rebuild. Yes we could acquire some marginal talent right now, which could eventually help after a few years, but that's a long shot and we simply haven't got the pieces to be able to attract top level young talent. What could we achieve? Being a 40-win, instead of a 30-win team in 2012/13? One could easily argue that'd be even worse in the longer long term LOL
Widely recognized? by who? Does the NBA issue "success windows" now?
I have no problem with sacrificing the short term to a point. If not winning a le this season means multiple les down the road? Sure but again, what deal is out there that would ensure this by trading Manu?
By Tim Duncan's contract.
So when Duncan leaves, the Spurs will never ever win another le.
OK.
There can be life after Duncan. That is probably why some want to trade Manu. Personally I don't think dealing Manu can do that.
Just read my post again. My point was to compare that position to those that believe Manu could be traded for players who improve the Spurs in the short-term AND the long-term. If someone believes that the championship window is closed, then one could reasonably argue for moving aging assets to obtain younger pieces.
I have a problem with those who believe that there is a realistic Manu trade out there that makes the Spurs an elite contender in the short term and improves long term prospects as well. I don't believe such a trade is possible.
I have stated my own position on the subject of trading Manu in several threads. I believe his current value is little more than as an expiring contract. Between now and the trade deadline his value can significantly increase, but cannot significantly decrease. Barring a Gasol type "stupid" trade, the Spurs should keep Manu this summer and see how he and TD are able to play this season. At the trade deadline they will be in a much better position to decide on the best course of action to pursue with Manu. They will have at least four possible options:
1. Trade at trade deadline
2. Sign to an extension
3. Sign and trade next summer
4. Let his contract expire and use the cap space to sign a FA
Manu is not washed up, nor done. His winning at ude, low keyed personality and God-given natural ability have combined to help us win 3 championships in recent memory. Without him, it is more than feasible to say that none of those championships would exist.
However, the objective spurs fan must take a quick grasp of our assets and realize that Manu, along with his soon to be expiring contract, are by far our most lucrative chips on the trading block, and by far our most easily dealt for equal talent. Could Pop, or me, or any average spurfan see Manu being traded for fodder, or even the 5th pick? No. But I'd be pissed if I thought for one second, the FO wasn't shopping Manu after two unhealthy seasons for some big-time offer. It's only business.
Even though nothing is likely to ever come of it, it looks as though the Spurs have already received an offer for Manu:
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._for_ginobili/
Wizards Make Offer For Ginobili
The Washington Wizards have made a trade offer for Manu Ginoibili.
Asked by the Argentine press this week whether he thought he could be traded, he said “impossible” had lost a few letters.
“Today I believe there is a chance it could happen,” Ginobili said.
“People get in trouble when they say never,” Gregg Popovich said Wednesday.
“But Manu Ginobili is someone I cannot envision trading,” Popovich continued. “He has been such a huge part of our heart and soul; people like that are hard to come by. You don't even think about trading somebody like that. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be traded.”
The Spurs need to evaluate what they have and make the decision on whats best for the team.... Now Washington has been dangling the number five pick and I bellieve Antawn Jamison's hefty contract..... Take the five pick and get someone who will be able to produce.... Washington is trying to dump salary so whos to say that they do not try to payoff Manu or he does the Sean Elliott thing and go for a year and come back as a free agent.... This could be a winning situation for the Spurs.
No they haven't. It's just realgm.com badly paraphrasing the Harvey article. Look at the bottom of the realgm.com piece you linked to where it says "via Express-News". When you click that, you get Harvey's blog which contains this sentence "A rumor surfaced this month that the Wizards called the Spurs with an offer for him". Realgm takes that sentence and turns it into the declarative statement "The Washington Wizards have made a trade offer for Manu Ginoibili." Let's just say that exercised a little too much literary license.
Realgm.com headlines are often exaggerated, if not fictional, in order to attract readers.
I'd argue that it's extremely unlikely that the Spurs can remain an elite franchise post-Duncan without bumping into the sort of luck that landed them David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the first place. Unless you're lucky enough to be the Lakers, you generally can't become an elite team without first being a bad team for at least a little while and then having some luck with the lottery. It might not be that the lottery will get you a guy who wins you les, but spending some time in the lottery is certainly the best bet to get such a player, either by drafting him or by using lottery-type assets to go get him.So when Duncan leaves, the Spurs will never ever win another le.
OK.
There can be life after Duncan. That is probably why some want to trade Manu. Personally I don't think dealing Manu can do that.
Look at Boston. It took a few years of being a lottery club to acquire the assets (Jefferson, picks) that allowed them to acquire Garnett and Allen. Look at Orlando, which had to win the lottery in 2004 to get Howard. Look at Cleveland and the 2003 lottery win (after years of being stuck in the lottery). The 2004 Pistons were loaded with lottery players, several of whom were acquired by trading other lottery players.
I'll admit that I might be in a distinct minority here, but I think the Spurs are barking up the wrong tree if they think that they can plan now to remain an elite team without Duncan. Absent some ridiculous luck in the summer of 2010, the Spurs' best chances to win les after Duncan will depend upon them having some stumbles and rebuilding with lottery-type talent during that time. And getting some luck in doing so.
I believe the championship window has closed for the current spurs without a significant addition on the frontline and I mean borderline all star next to Duncan.
The Lakers have kicked the spurs butts since they have gotten Gasol. The spurs are just a bad matchup against them. Also other teams are passing the spurs out with younger more talented players. As these younger players develope the spurs will be left in the dust.
The spurs won't be winning anything with their recent past philosophy of just plugging in the frontline with any below average talented players.
It would take trading an asset like Manu for a significant upgrade on the frontline
Yes they have. In fact, if you follow the link below and read the top of the Buck Harvey article on E-News (link below), Pop indicates as much in the Buck Harvey article. Even though the offer was made last season, there indeed appears the Blizzards indeed made a legitimate offer for Manu.
I hear what you're saying in that RealGM makes it appear as though there was a recent offer, but the Blizzards have ventured into this area before.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s...anu_stays.html
Can't we stop all of the fussin' & fightin'?!
I can't see how a reasonable person could argue much with the points you make in your first three paragraphs. I certainly wouldn't take issue with those points.
Where I think we diverge is with the bolded statement. I can't see a "borderline all-star" frontline player that could be obtained in exchange for Manu. Now if Bryan Colangelo starts channeling Chris Wallace and offers up Bosh in exchange for Manu plus filler, then I'm in. I just don't believe such an unbalanced deal is possible. Now stat sheet fillers on bad contracts like Zach Randolph and Antawn Jamison may be available in exchange for Manu, but I wouldn't trade Manu for either one of those players.
What "borderline all-star" frontline player do you think the Spurs could obtain for Manu in a trade that makes sense for the other team as well?
Wasn't looking to argue with you.
Just that realgm.com is notorious for their exaggerated headlines. Right now if you go to their front page the largest, boldest headline on the front page proclaims "Wizards make offer for Ginobili" The clear implication is that there is a current offer on the table and there is no reputable source to support that claim.
Realgm, hoopshype, and other collections of news reports, blogs, and rumors are good for what they are. I link to various content posted on those sites all the time. But they play fast and loose with their headlines and take statements out of context to get people to click thru.
This is what rascal doesn't seem to understand in all of his endless "trade Manu" rants. There is not a single front line player on the market this summer that can make us a contender.
10,000 piles of bull still = A pile of bull .
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