Chas y Bono-Becoming a Man!

[ploto]

I wonder how you feel about women making their boobs larger. Maybe she just wants to make her peepee larger.

[CuckingFunt]

I'm normally one of those bleeding heart, left-wing, Obama-bumper-sticker, tolerant types, but I really don't get transgender surgery.

I don't "get it" either, to be honest. But I realize that I have the benefit of being perfectly happy and comfortable with the parts I got at birth. Not everyone feels that way, and I can't even imagine what it would feel like to be that uncomfortable in my own skin. Considering how uncomfortable I am in situations in which I am unable to fully express myself for even a couple of hours, I don't doubt that I lifetime of that feeling would be difficult enough that I'd seek change through some means.

Ultimately, however, while I personally see the surgery as being extreme and unnecessary in my own life, I'm not about to assume people are automatically crazy for seeking that change in theirs. What I think is crazy is that we as a culture have constructed definitions of gender that are so rigid and so restricting that people even feel a need to match their appendages to their behavior or personality.

[CuckingFunt]

i'll give you a funny little example why i think such is insane.

i have this friend who let's say is out there and likes to run with both parties. dude through me for a loop when he told me he was dating a tranny. ok so he's dating a tranny, i don't give a , and we all go out to this club one night... i'm not condoning such behavior but, anyhow, the "dude" hit my friend and my friend hit that back and hard. well this "dude" got all crybaby and and started a big scene and my buddy ended up surrounded by people who wanted to kick his ass over a "woman" and this "dude" kept telling everyone, "yeah he hits me! he's a woman abuser and blah blah blah"

so he hit this "dude" but that "dude" hit my friend too. anyhow, this "dude" could had really gotten my friend ed up and it wouldn't had been justified. that "dude" is insane as is the rest of these people who claim they are the opposite of the truth that they obviously can't comprehend.

I hate to break it to you, but manipulative drama queens aren't unique to the trans/intersex community. The loony bins would be crowded to overflowing within days if we started using anything in that story as a sign of insanity.

if they can't comprehend that they are who they are then they are definitely out of reach with reality which leads me to suspect they are all insane. regardless if you chop your up or glue one on you are out of reach with reality and therefore you're in' insane!

i refuse to call anyone different just because they lay claim that they are something or someone else then who they really are. a dude is a dude is a dude and a chick is a chick is a chick regardless of what they think, say, or do.

hermies are just ed! ha.

And, what exactly is reality? That your genitals determine who and what you are? If you had a tragic accident tomorrow and no longer had a penis, would you still consider yourself to be a man based on the other elements of your personality?

I think it is a real discussion but CF took it the wrong way and thinks that if someone isn't okay with it they are wrong or somehow different if they state their opinion that they don't accept this type of behavior. There can be serious discussion on a subject while still allowing humor to lighten the mood.

Oh, I see. The thread had the potential for real discussion as long as everyone participating laughed at the bad jokes and agreed with all the points already being made. I'll keep that in mind for the future.

[SnakeBoy]

If you had a tragic accident tomorrow and no longer had a penis, would you still consider yourself to be a man based on the other elements of your personality?

I'd consider myself less of a man. I think any man that says otherwise is lying, at least to themselves.

It's really not a very good analogy though. If I were in a tragic accident tomorrow and my penis turned into a vagina and I grew s, I would consider myself a lesbian. Also I would masturbate alot since there would always be pussy in front of me.

[LnGrrrR]

Ultimately, however, while I personally see the surgery as being extreme and unnecessary in my own life, I'm not about to assume people are automatically crazy for seeking that change in theirs. What I think is crazy is that we as a culture have constructed definitions of gender that are so rigid and so restricting that people even feel a need to match their appendages to their behavior or personality.

Given that the ability to 'change' gender has only surfaced in the past... what, 30 to 40 years? I don't see why you're surprised at pushback. For thousands of years we had the gender we were stuck with.

[LnGrrrR]

And, what exactly is reality? That your genitals determine who and what you are? If you had a tragic accident tomorrow and no longer had a penis, would you still consider yourself to be a man based on the other elements of your personality?

Let me posit a 'mad scientist' scenario. If someone, a man's testosterone were removed, and replaced with estrogen in the same quan ies as a female, and then had a sex change to 'complete' it, would he still be a 'man'?

Mentally, maybe, but probably not physically.

[JudynTX]

I wonder how you feel about women making their boobs larger. Maybe she just wants to make her peepee larger.

Wha?

[CosmicCowboy]

i have this friend who let's say is out there and likes to run with both parties. dude through me for a loop when he told me he was dating a tranny. ok so he's dating a tranny, i don't give a , and we all go out to this club one night... i'm not condoning such behavior but, anyhow, the "dude" hit my friend and my friend hit that back and hard. well this "dude" got all crybaby and and started a big scene and my buddy ended up surrounded by people who wanted to kick his ass over a "woman" and this "dude" kept telling everyone, "yeah he hits me! he's a woman abuser and blah blah blah"

I love this place. It makes me feel so "normal".

[ploto]

Wha?

I am just making the point that people have plastic surgery and alter their bodies all the time, so why the obsession with this particular augmentation? If she was operating on any other part of her body besides this particular one, then no one would care.

[JudynTX]

I am just making the point that people have plastic surgery and alter their bodies all the time, so why the obsession with this particular augmentation? If she was operating on any other part of her body besides this particular one, then no one would care.

I was unaware that you could make your vagina larger. But these days, anything is possible.

[Dark Gable]

I was unaware that you could make your vagina larger. But these days, anything is possible.

Believe me, it's possible.

[ploto]

I was unaware that you could make your vagina larger. But these days, anything is possible.

Women have plastic surgery to make their labia look "better" so surely they will do just about anything although I would guess a female would most likely want to make her vagina smaller.

[JudynTX]

Believe me, it's possible.

I set myself up for that one.

Women have plastic surgery to make their labia look "better" so surely they will do just about anything although I would guess a female would most likely want to make her vagina smaller.

You mean become virgins again?

[2Blonde]

Who gives a ? Seriously?

I will never understand why so many people are threatened by someone else's gender expression.

I don't know, since that's not what I'm advocating. I'd much prefer a society in which gender expressions outside of the male/female binary were no longer seen as being weird, which would negate the need to tolerate/embrace them specifically for their weirdness.

Agreed. Last night my husband and I were watching the NBC Nightly News w/Brian Williams and he reported on this story. My husband turned to me and asked me why was this national news. I agree, people have sexual reassignment surgery every day in this country. What makes the child of a musician national news? I can see it being a topic for discussion on an internet site but reporting it as a national news story on television is just sensationalism IMO.

[Kermit]

I guarantee you that when the technology comes around that makes s bigger and longer, all the people on here going "eww, that's gross" will be the first mother ers in line.

[ididnotnothat]

It IS news whether you like it or not. I'd say 95% of the news we read or hear about is about somebody we don't know personally. Of course there are surgeries going on 24/7 but not everyone is the daughter of a well know celebrity. No, it doesn't make it right but it makes it news. Fires are still reported on the news even though one happens every day and nothing weird about that.
Sucks but that is the way it is.

[CuckingFunt]

Given that the ability to 'change' gender has only surfaced in the past... what, 30 to 40 years? I don't see why you're surprised at pushback. For thousands of years we had the gender we were stuck with.

I'm not surprised by it, but I don't understand it. In general, I don't understand why anyone feels such vitriol about the decisions that others make in living their lives.

[desflood]

Good for Chaz. Hope it makes her (sorry, him) happy.

[easjer]

Good for Chaz. Hope it makes her (sorry, him) happy.

Pretty much this.

And I think CuckingFunt has made some excellent arguments as usual.

[z0sa]

Yeah. Hate and intolerance tend to have that effect. Silly me.

intolerance for gender changing weirdos will never change.

The hate, however, is unnecessary.

[Sigmund Freud]

I'm not surprised by it, but I don't understand it. In general, I don't understand why anyone feels such vitriol about the decisions that others make in living their lives.

It really isn't that hard to understand. It is human nature.

[FaithInOne]

[desflood]

I don't know why that strikes me as so damn funny, but I can't stop giggling.

[DoubtingThomas]

I guarantee you that when the technology comes around that makes s bigger and longer, all the people on here going "eww, that's gross" will be the first mother ers in line.

I thought the technology is already here?



No?

[Cry Havoc]

What is really bothersome about this kind of situation...

Poor people can't even begin to fathom this kind of thing. Gender reassignment is only for the wealthy. You could almost say it's a "perk" of being wealthy.

I have a friend who is going from being a man to a woman, and because "he" lost his job recently, he has to put everything on pause -- the hormones, the upcoming surgery, pretty much putting this process completely on pause.

It's nice to think that we can be all accepting and tra la la, but the fact is that it's an incredibly risky, costly procedure that only the very well off financially can afford. Everyone else is stuck with what they have. Agree with GRS or not, that's wrong.