LA Times: How Does Kobe Bryant Rank Among NBA Greats?

[LakeShow]

no, phil wanted me to have the ball, but kobe wanted to be the man. He missed a lay-up and horry save his sorry a$$

What about the put back that YOU missed right under the basket before Vlade tapped it out to Horry?

[Shaquille O'Neal]

What about the put back that YOU missed right under the basket before Vlade tapped it out to Horry?

i was surprised kobe missed a layup that easy, obviously i wasn't prepared

[LakeShow]

i was surprised kobe missed a layup that easy, obviously i wasn't prepared

Ok, why weren't you prepared? That's why you were there.

[baseline bum]

Who dumped the ball to him? The ball was in Kobe's hands to make a play. Just like he did against Portland and others that Horry made the game winners. What about the famous game that Horry hit the shot against Sacramento? The ball was given to Kobe to make a play, not Shaq. Do your ing homework. When the game was on the line, the lakers made a conscious effort to keep the ball out of Shaq's hands.

Go back and watch the video of both game 7s and try to post that again with a straight face.

[DrHouse]

Kobe Bryant can't win a ring without Shaq. What has LA done since '02?

[stretch]

Bird was a great team defender and tried to play D. Nash, uh, isn't and, uh doesn't.

nash is actually pretty good at drawing charges and gets steals from time to time, so since he at least puts forth effort in those areas, lets just call him a great team defender, the same way bird gets that le just because he helps other ty defenders by double teaming their man and playing their passing lanes.



getting steals by playing passing lanes does not = great defense. double team defense does not = great defense. that whole "the 80s had great team defense!" stuff is bull . if it was so great, then why is it that when you watch 80's games, about 90% of the shots are wide open midrange jumpers, where a defender is clearly within range to be able to contest it, yet just stands there and watches, or starts going the other way, more interested in the fast break? and why is it that Michael Jordan singlehandedly changed the way that teams play TEAM DEFENSE? cuz defense in the 80s was bull .

[PM5K]

1. Jordan
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. Everyone Else.....

[dirk4mvp]

nash is actually pretty good at drawing charges and gets steals from time to time, so since he at least puts forth effort in those areas, lets just call him a great team defender, the same way bird gets that le just because he helps other ty defenders by double teaming their man and playing their passing lanes.



getting steals by playing passing lanes does not = great defense. double team defense does not = great defense. that whole "the 80s had great team defense!" stuff is bull . if it was so great, then why is it that when you watch 80's games, about 90% of the shots are wide open midrange jumpers, where a defender is clearly within range to be able to contest it, yet just stands there and watches, or starts going the other way, more interested in the fast break? and why is it that Michael Jordan singlehandedly changed the way that teams play TEAM DEFENSE? cuz defense in the 80s was bull .

lol comparing Nash's d to Bird's.

[Unforgivable]

Nash draws 1-2 charges a game.....in a 90+ possession game that doesn't mean .

Still believe this isn't DoK?

[stretch]

lol comparing Nash's d to Bird's.

lol saying bird played d

[cobbler]

lol saying bird played d

Compared to Nash Bird and magic were ALL WORLD defenders. Come on. Magic played avg defense. Bird maybe a tad better. Nash plays NO defense. Friggen Fisher plays 10 times better D and he sucks.

[baseline bum]

[LakeShow]

Go back and watch the video of both game 7s and try to post that again with a straight face.

Maybe we're talking about two different things. My point, when the game was on the line and the lakers needed a bucket, the ball was in Kobe's hands.

[stretch]

Compared to Nash Bird and magic were ALL WORLD defenders. Come on. Magic played avg defense. Bird maybe a tad better. Nash plays NO defense. Friggen Fisher plays 10 times better D and he sucks.

You guys bash on Nash entirely too much. Now I'm not saying hes a good defender by any means... but its not very easy to play defense period if your entire team plays no defense, and you have NO interior presence. When has Nash EVER had a remotely legit defensive presence inside? The best guys he had was Shawn Bradley and an old Shaq who didn't give a . Not to mention their ":07 or less" playing style isn't really going to help much either. At least Magic and Bird had guys like Parish and Kareem inside. I'm sure if Nash had guys like those inside, he would look less ty, the same way they made Magic and Bird look less ty on defense. Lastly, Magic and Bird didn't have to deal with the kinds of talent, players, and athletes that are in the league today. Athletes like Jordan, Clyde, and Wilkins were a very small bunch, while today, there are a load of guys who are quick as lightning, have bullish strength, and incredible body control. Just about every team has one or two INCREDIBLE athletes with such qualities. Can you imagine Magic and Bird having to deal with Lebron, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, VC, Pierce, Parker, CP3, D-Will, Joe Johnson, Devin Harris, Brandon Roy, Kevin Durant, Carmello, Josh Smith, Richard Jefferson, AI, Baron Davis, Gerald Wallace, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson... and those are just STARS. There are quite a few players of lesser role players who are on a similar platform of athleticism as well, such as JR Smith and Trevor Ariza.

Magic and Bird sucked at defense, no ifs and's or buts.

[dirk4mvp]

making an argument for Nash and his defense.

Magic and Bird would be worlds better on defense than Nash even in today's league.

[baseline bum]

Maybe we're talking about two different things. My point, when the game was on the line and the lakers needed a bucket, the ball was in Kobe's hands.

Seemed like the ball was in Shaq's hands when the season was on the line.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this thread and any other kobe wtf great ranks articles is as stupid as the articles written about certain players when the celtics won it last year, where does PP, KG rank.....

all off a sudden winning a championship ring, you become overrated overnight.

[diego]

i hate shaq, but to say he wasnt exceptionally skilled for his size is to sell him short. compare him to dwight howard and you will see the difference. howard gives more effort on the boards but even though he has a comparable size advantage he doesnt have the skills to use it. can you imagine pau gasol guarding shaq one on one in a 7 game series? by the second game he'd be covered in bruises wishing he was back in memphis.

and there's a reason bigs are as important as they are, otherwise kobe wouldn't have had his little tantrum. hakeem, shaq, duncan deserve a lot of credit for their all around ability and proven success. and if you want to go the most talented... where do you put david robinson or grant hill?

as for kobe... he has a chance but still doesnt belong in the top 10 no way.

[NewcastleKEG]

1) Michael Jordan
2) Magic Johnson
3. Bill Russell
4) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5) Wilt Chamberlain
6) Larry Bird
7) Tim Duncan
8) Shaquille O'Neal
9) Oscar Robertson
10) Kobe Bryant

[kingmalaki]

more talented, better athlete, more rings, WAYYYYYYYY better defender.

that is one thing that bugs me, when people talk about how Nash shouldnt win MVPs since he did his work only on one end of the court... you can say the same about Magic and Bird. they were both ing horrible defenders, and had STACKED ING TEAMS. so why do they get a pass on their defense?

Kobe may not be as good of a leader as Bird or Magic, but he is most definitely a better basketball player.

Bird was the MVP of the league for three straight seasons. I also believe he finished 2nd in MVP voting the 3 seasons before he won his first one. That's basically saying he was arguably the best player in basketball over a 6 year span. Can Kobe, or anyone else outside of MJ and maybe Magic say that (speaking of the modern era)?

[YellowFever]

1) Michael Jordan
2) Magic Johnson
3. Bill Russell
4) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5) Wilt Chamberlain
5) Magic Johnson
6) Larry Bird
7) Tim Duncan
8) Shaquille O'Neal
9) Oscar Robertson
10) Kobe Bryant

Wow..Magic must've been awesome to make the list twice.

[NewcastleKEG]

Wow..Magic must've been awesome to make the list twice.

haha

oops

[baseline bum]

People seriously underestimate Bird. He walked in and turned a 29 win Celtics team into a 61 win team his rookie season, when their only major addition other than Bird was having Pistol Pete come play 26 ineffective games. Bird was a jack of all trades on the offensive end, though his defense was awful after he destroyed his back in the 1983 offseason. Bird's effort and passion for the game was equivalent to Manu on steroids.

[Flux451]

LMAO. Revisionism at its finest. Shaq was option #1 to close game 7 in Sacramento, the biggest game the Lakers have played in the past 20 years. Of the 8 points scored in OT before the Kings started intentionally fouling with 15 seconds left, Shaq had 6 of them. Here's the video of OT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDD7_vQDhDw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL7lePEaaqY

I know. Shaq wasn't the money ball player vs Portland in game 7 either, despite scoring 9 points in the 4th on 100% shooting while grabbing 5 boards. Shaw's three to tie the game had nothing to do with LA dumping the ball into Shaq and him commanding the triple-team that gave him that wide-open look on the direct pass out from O'Neal. Those 5 fouls he drew on Sabonis, Grant, and Wallace had nothing to do with LA dumping the ball into him relentlessly that entire quarter. The 2nd biggest Lakers game of the past 20 years wasn't a money game either I guess.

OWNerisms!

[cobbler]

You guys bash on Nash entirely too much. Now I'm not saying hes a good defender by any means... but its not very easy to play defense period if your entire team plays no defense, and you have NO interior presence. When has Nash EVER had a remotely legit defensive presence inside? The best guys he had was Shawn Bradley and an old Shaq who didn't give a . Not to mention their ":07 or less" playing style isn't really going to help much either. At least Magic and Bird had guys like Parish and Kareem inside. I'm sure if Nash had guys like those inside, he would look less ty, the same way they made Magic and Bird look less ty on defense. Lastly, Magic and Bird didn't have to deal with the kinds of talent, players, and athletes that are in the league today. Athletes like Jordan, Clyde, and Wilkins were a very small bunch, while today, there are a load of guys who are quick as lightning, have bullish strength, and incredible body control. Just about every team has one or two INCREDIBLE athletes with such qualities. Can you imagine Magic and Bird having to deal with Lebron, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, VC, Pierce, Parker, CP3, D-Will, Joe Johnson, Devin Harris, Brandon Roy, Kevin Durant, Carmello, Josh Smith, Richard Jefferson, AI, Baron Davis, Gerald Wallace, Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson... and those are just STARS. There are quite a few players of lesser role players who are on a similar platform of athleticism as well, such as JR Smith and Trevor Ariza.

Magic and Bird sucked at defense, no ifs and's or buts.

You dont think Magic and Bird could hang today? hahahaha

Yeah... guys like...

Patrick Ewing
Nate Archibald
Karl Malone
Bernard King
Maurice Cheeks
Mark Aguirre
Clyde Drexler
Walter Davis
Dennis Johnson
James Worthy
Charles Barkley
Marques Johnson
Sidney Moncrief
Kevin McHale
Dominique Wilkins
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan
George Gervin
Robert Parish
Adrian Dantley
Julius Erving
Isiah Thomas
Alex English
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Moses Malone

What a bunch of no name fodder.