Another manu to dc with third team

[tim_duncan_fan]

I dont know why a lot of Spurs fans are discounting that #5 pick as if it is nothing. Here are a list of some #5 picks taken since 2000.

Dwayne Wade
Devin Harris
Raymond Felton
Kevin Love
Jeff Green

And all of those guys are having big impacts on their teams. And it also shows that there has been a high success rate for #5 picks this decade. So if the Spurs were to get anywhere near that #5 pick and another top player like Wallace for a 32 year old SG on two bad wheels, they should pull the trigger.

Supposedly, this is the worst draft of any sport in any year ever.


That's why.

[SteelerNation]

Supposedly, this is the worst draft of any sport in any year ever.


That's why.

That'd pretty bizarre for a front office like the Spurs, who has had the success it has had in the draft over the years, to want to move up into the top 5 positions in the draft if this was the weakest in all of sports ever. And there is a lot of noise suggesting the Spurs want to move up. I think this draft has a lot of talent in it.

[DPG21920]

That'd pretty bizarre for a front office like the Spurs, who has had the success it has had in the draft over the years, to want to move up into the top 5 positions in the draft if this was the weakest in all of sports ever. And there is a lot of noise suggesting the Spurs want to move up. I think this draft has a lot of talent in it.

It does not mean there is not talent, but there is not "typical" lottery talent. This is a good buy low situation for a team that can get some help for cheap by moving up if everyone is really buying into the weakness of the draft.

Also, I do not think there is much interest from the Spurs to get the #5 from the reported offer. Not saying the Wiz did not make an offer, but I do not think the Spurs were listening.

[SteelerNation]

It does not mean there is not talent, but there is not "typical" lottery talent. This is a good buy low situation for a team that can get some help for cheap by moving up if everyone is really buying into the weakness of the draft.

Also, I do not think there is much interest from the Spurs to get the #5 from the reported offer. Not saying the Wiz did not make an offer, but I do not think the Spurs were listening.

I remember everyone saying the same thing last year. That after you got past Beasley and Rose, the talent dropped off like a stone. Well, I'll tell people right now, I would love to have OJ Mayo or Eric Gordon or Kevin Love or Brook Lopez on my team.(the other lottery picks) All these so called experts say the same thing every year and every year the draft still produces some great talent.

[DPG21920]

I remember everyone saying the same thing last year. That after you got past Beasley and Rose, the talent dropped off like a stone. Well, I'll tell people right now, I would love to have OJ Mayo or Eric Gordon or Kevin Love or Brook Lopez on my team.(the other lottery picks) All these so called experts say the same thing every year and every year the draft still produces some great talent.

I disagree, last year was pretty weak. There are some serviceable players, but no superstars. Rose could be, I doubt Beasley or Griffin will be and Love is a role player. Mayo is nice and so is Gordon and Brook had a very good rookie year, but are any of those players good enough to build around to have a legit shot at winning?

Some may helpful in being a solid contributing piece to a championship team, but I do not see a lot of franchise players.

[DPG21920]

But you can definitely get guys who can help.

[SteelerNation]

I disagree, last year was pretty weak. There are some serviceable players, but no superstars. Rose could be, I doubt Beasley or Griffin will be and Love is a role player. Mayo is nice and so is Gordon and Brook had a very good rookie year, but are any of those players good enough to build around to have a legit shot at winning?

Some may helpful in being a solid contributing piece to a championship team, but I do not see a lot of franchise players.

Time will tell, but I think that Mayo and Gordon are gonna be flat out studs. Both these guys played on horrible teams. I think both will average 20pts/gm next year. Just wait till Griffin shows up in Clipperland. Gordon is not gonna drawl the double team anymore. Did you watch the game between him and Durant last year? Durant had 46 and Gordon had 41. Game ended 107-104. That was a great game.

[DPG21920]

Time will tell, but I think that Mayo and Gordon are gonna be flat out studs. Both these guys played on horrible teams. I think both will average 20pts/gm next year. Just wait till Griffin shows up in Clipperland. Gordon is not gonna drawl the double team anymore. Did you watch the game between him and Durant last year? Durant had 46 and Gordon had 41. Game ended 107-104. That was a great game.

Gordon had a great year, so did Mayo. I could be wrong and you are right, only time will tell.

There are guys like Zach Randolph who average 20/10, but they are not what I would call studs.

[manu the best]

Block Buster Proposition (3 teams, 11 players)
Instead of recycling a rumor, I’m going to come up with might be a reasonable proposition.

Three team deal: San Antonio, Charlotte, Washington

Bobcats Get: Nick Young, Antawn Jamison, Etan Thomas
Bobcats Give: Gerald Wallace, Raja Bell, Nazr Mohammed

Spurs Get: Gerald Wallace, Andray Blatche, Mike James, the 5th Pick
Spurs Give: Manu Ginobili, Fabricio Oberto, Bruce Bowen

Wizards Get: Manu Ginobili, Fabricio Oberto, Bruce Bowen, Raja Bell, Nazr Mohammed
Wizards Give: Nick Young, Antawn Jamison, Etan Thomas, Andray Blatche, Mike James, the 5th Pick

Washington Breakdown:
IN OUT
Ginobili $10.73 Young $1.715 $2.63 $3.696
Oberto $3.8 Jamison $11.64 $13.359 $15.077
Bell $5.25 Thomas $7.355
Mohammed $6.467 $6.884 James $6.467
Bowen $4.0 Blatche $3.0 $3.26 $3.52
$30.245 $30.177

In an ‘all-in’ move, Grunfeld gets veteran experience and aging toughness, especially if Bowen and Bell have any wing defense left in the tank. Along with the pick, it seems like the Wizards are giving up a ton for what could possibly be the greatest M.A.S.H. unit in the history of the league. But hey, if it doesn’t work, the Wizards get to trim a lot of salary fat ($23.78 million in expiring contracts), keep Butler and Arenas as building blocks, with money to re-sign Haywood and change leftover to reload.

Abe Pollin would be forced to part with community leader Antawn Jamison, but he’ll rest better knowing that the Gentlemen is going home to help his community of North Carolina.

Wiz Depth Chart:
PG: Gilbert Arenas; Javaris Crittenton
SG: Manu Ginobili; DeShawn Stevenson; Raja Bell
SF: Caron Butler; Raja Bell; Dominic McGuire; Bruce Bowen
PF: Dominic McGuire; Darius Songaila; Fabricio Oberto; Oleksiy Pecherov
C: Brendan Haywood; Fabricio Oberto; JaVale McGee; Nazr Mohammed

That’s a potent big three, all willing to share the ball. The Wizards also gain two solid bench defenders, both with the ability to knock down a long distance shot of the spot-up variety … a definite need.

A glaring area is obviously point guard, Crittenton serving as the primary backup to Arenas. The departing Juan Dixon’s roster spot does, however, provide an option to add a veteran floor general. In addition, the trio of Ginobili, Stevenson, and Bell have all proved somewhat capable of spot-up point duties.

I can’t exactly say that I trust that front-court either. The beloved in San Antonio Oberto is coming off a heart condition. Mohammed can score and rebound, but is allergic to D (seems like a buy-out candidate). And is Dom McGuire really ready to be a starting PF in the NBA?

On the flip side, minutes would be available for McGee and Pecherov to earn (the latter being highly unlikely), and Songaila would be the perfect intelligently passing big off the bench. Still, I understand …. somewhat suspect front line.

Charlotte Breakdown:
IN OUT
Young $1.715 $2.631 $3.695 Wallace $9.5 $9.5 $9.5 $9.5
Jamison $11.641 $13.359 $15.077 Bell $5.25
Thomas $7.355 Mohammed $6.467 $6.884
$20.710 $21.217

Charlotte is a mess. Bob Johnson is in financial trouble and looking to sell, while the city attorney is saying that the team can’t leave the Queen City. Fans are hungry for a winner, as frustrations with Michael Jordan’s leadership efforts mount. Perhaps simply making the playoffs would go a long way towards winning the locals over.

Look no further than acquiring a Carolina boy, which would fit perfectly with the franchise’s past modus operandi. Both Jamison and Young would potentially pack the scoring punch Charlotte has been missing.

While A.J. brings a fatter contract in the short term, the move allows the Bobcats to chop two years off money owed in getting rid of both Wallace and Mohammed essentially for Jamison and Etan. On the side, Charlotte would certainly be glad to exchange Bell for the youth and affordable contract years of Young.

A nucleus of Augustin, Felton, Young, Diaw, Jamison, Radmanovic, Diop, and Okafor is a better product that what was fielded in Charlotte last year. How could they not like the move?

San Antonio Breakdown:
IN OUT
Wallace $9.5 $9.5 $9.5 Oberto $3.8
Blatche $3.0 $3.26 $3.52 Ginobili $10.728
James $6.467 Bowen $4.0
$18.967 $18.528

The Spurs would lose the heart and soul of Ginobili, defensive son Bowen, and fan favorite Oberto, but would shed a lot of age, an average if 34.7 years per player (104 total years when Manu turns 32 in late July) in exchange for an average of 28 years (84 total years when Blatche turns 23 in August).

Crash Wallace gives San Antonio a diversely talented forward who is willing to rebound, defend, and run with Tony Parker. James serves as veteran scoring to supplant Parker off the bench. Blatche becomes the ‘change-of-scenery’ find who would greatly benefit from just being around Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovich. And finally, the pick allows S.A. to move forward in any direction with the option to take anyone from Tyreke Evans to Stephen Curry to Jordan Hill to James Harden.

The caveat is that the Spurs take on more contract years, and they may have better options elsewhere, but with Timmy’s closing window, this trade best allows them to rebuild with youth while staying relevant (compe iveness in the West probably contingent on an additional move).

Conclusion
Still, if I’m Grunfeld, I hesitate to pull the trigger. The Wiz are giving up some decent talent with several unknown en ies in return … granted with the aforementioned luxury of having $23.78 million come off the books after ‘09-10.

One enticement/addition could be for the Wiz to exchange their 2nd pick in the second round (32 overall) for Charlotte’s 12th overall (perhaps they’d rather not commit to first round money, I don’t know), where Grunfeld might hope for Tyreke Evans, Jonny Flynn, Ty Lawson or Brandon Jennings to be available.

The verdict: Make the trade and tell Flip to do his best. The Wizards would gain championship experienced veteran depth without committing themselves to long term contracts.

All this being said, I don’t want to be like Bill Simmons, throwing absurdities fueled by my own biases against the wall just because the trade happened to work in RealGM’s checker.

Part of the reason Simmons comes across as an idiot, while politicking for an NBA GM position, is the incessant insults he hurls towards current GMs, thinking he could just fleece them for valued goods. Give me a break.

In any case, I will attempt to solicit the opinions of Bobcats and Spurs bloggers to see how on or off-base I might be.

you worked hard for this but its a no no ... .. none of this players can bring what MANU is doing for the SPURS



MANU=

[Spursfanfromafar]

Keeping that in mind, since one last legit le shot is what the goal is:

I feel that if you stick with Manu, you can still trade Bowen/Oberto (whos partially guaranteed/expiring contracts are attractive) and get a better big man than Blatche or a solid SF. You can also have some insurance in case Manu gets hurt (his expiring contract, vs Wallace who is on the books).

I also feel the 2010 plan can yield a greater opportunity to net a better package than Blatche/Wallace/5th that can actually give the Spurs a legit shot at going for a le, not just get marginally better.

I like your argument. Keeping Manu while adding someone out of Bowen/Oberto/(even Bonner) deals will help Spurs to be in the mix, if not contend for a le.

The trouble is to find that someone who will help right away and is someone who is better than Blatche is, and will not hurt the 2010 situation. From all reasonable deal scenarios, I can't find an inexpensive big/ SF who can be got for Oberto/Bowen who will not hurt the cap going in after 2010. That is the key, I suppose to keeping Manu.