PPPP, did you state that these issues concerning the age of the earth/evolution don't exist?
Miscommunication.
no, you clearly don't have any proof.While I know, and have proof, that they do
yesterday's scientist based flat earth theories on the Bible.Today's scientist truly believes our deep seated religions and their views of creation, and even special creation, are faked.
It is really any wonder that today's scientist is skeptical of deep seated religions?
especially when there are nut jobs like you.
when you did your testing on the microbe, what age did you come up with?Indeed, this has come to the point where scientist's have been given too much free ground to work with, far too many ideas that have been included and taught as factual without sufficient evidence, like the OP's article for instance.
beh. Even Michael Behe has come around to the idea that the Earth is billions of years old and agrees with Darwin's idea of common descent.Nature is responsible for everything, but it seems the evidence doesn't always point that way. So scientists make it point that way. Milton touched on it in the previous quote - that there's a growing concern over the validity of various neo-Darwinist concepts. I hope the amount of creationist scientists continues to grow.
zosa: still at -6 for answering simple questionbtw blake, I'm done with this thread. cod 5 was calling like 3 hours ago.
you didn't prove anything. I live in Europe (so if I follow your hypocrite pov, I can "speak for them") and IT'S NOT A HOT TOPIC HERE.
Any European on this board will tell you this, regardless of his/her opinion.
, I've been raised there and only discovered this issue when I first came to the US at age 24....
I Never said so. My exact words were "only in the US is this issue so present".
pppp-2
Blake-6
Z0sa-4
only in threads like this are z0sa's miscommunication issues so......present.
I lost track of who owns the happy devil troll........I think it's Chalupa......
I lost track of who owns the happy devil troll........I think it's Chalupa......
I think the point the OP meant to make was... holy cow it's really freaking old bacteria.
Stories like this always fascinate me.
LnGrrrR 2
Blake 6
z0sa 6
pppp 4
I don't remember the percentages, but it's pretty high the number of genes that all life on earth has in common, including old DNA tested. I wonder how this compares.
I just got done reading this one (my grandfather owns a subscription and passes them onto me when he gets a chance, so I am always really behind).
Had nothing to do with this thread. Just real good information with leading biologists from every corner of the globe, who can strangely have faith in God and not be ignorant and deranged enough to think evolution doesnt happen.
Carry on.
Yo, there's hundreds of scientists 'ignorant' and 'deranged' enough to believe evolution doesn't happen (those terms are outlandish at best - I mean, deranged is thinking we were frogs IMO). Dunno what sciences you study or anything, but they probably know more on the subject than most do. Feel free not to pass judgment on the humans you like to think are excluded from existence simply because they don't share your 'popular' opinion. Now, I will carry on.
I just got done reading this one (my grandfather owns a subscription and passes them onto me when he gets a chance, so I am always really behind).
Had nothing to do with this thread. Just real good information with leading biologists from every corner of the globe, who can strangely have faith in God and not be ignorant and deranged enough to think evolution doesnt happen.
Carry on.
Additionally, notice the bottom left of that article, "Creationists latest tricks". This is January 2008 issue, and DarkReign testifies it concerns leading biologists from around the globe. Therefore, the question must also be risen: if Creationism is not an issue around the globe, why is it immediately brought up nowadays even by evolution advocates on their own magazine? If it wasn't a veritable 'hot topic' like Blake thinks, why would it be on the front page of a magazine, concerned exclusively this January issue with evolution, with contributors from around the globe?
Because it is an issue?Some here don't seem to understand that when large amounts of scientists completely disregard 'well-known' facts and theories like evolution, a huge rift is created. It's well do ented, and Creationist numbers are growing. You can shove your fingers in your ears and scream 'you're ignorant idiots!' all you want, kinda like you accuse us of doing, but its okay. We're growing and we will be for a very long time to come. That's global, by the way, and no, not all of us believe the earth is young, or that we didn't evolve, or any other combination of ideals, but the fact remains we continue on.
Last edited by z0sa; 06-19-2009 at 11:19 AM.
I would say that the vast majority of scientists with a faith of some sort either believe it on a spiritual level (there is an afterlife, there is a divine purpose to life existing, etc.) or just believe it on a universal scale (God initiated the big bang, God creates universes, some higher power made the rules of physics).
Likewise, I would say the number of scientists that seriously believe the earth was made in 7 days or is 5000 years old or that evolution doesn't happen would be in the extreme minority or followers of pseudo-science.
I'm sure there is some sort of study that has been done on this, but the entire issue is moot anyways. The world is getting more secular with each generation and soon the bible will just be regarded as nothing but mythology. In the past 50 years alone modern countries have gone from being very pro-christian church every-sunday-types to people that have separated from their church and follow their own beliefs or none at all. 20-33% of people in developed countries now follow no religion. This would of been pure blasphemy just a few generations ago.
If not within our lifetimes, then certainly in our children's, God truly will be dead.
Also, the only issue with creationism is how it is used politically to try to get religious views in the classroom or as pseduo-science. Of course it will be talked about.
It should be noted that this is only an issue in the United States. Since the U.S. tends to lag a bit behind Europe in cultural trends I imagine we will be caught up in 10-15 years.
I'll just quote wiki sources on Europe, the most secular area by far:
Religion still retains very high importance in the middle east, the far east, Africa, and some parts of South America. Some people from Argentina probably have some knowledge of the happenings down there.
Two words.
Scientific American
You know, that country that for all its greatness and achievement, still lags behind every industrialized nation in every imaginable category in education.
Coincidence that a topic like creationism finds its deppest roots in the most fertile (that is, ignorant) grounds?
point taken, but it doesn't draw much from my argument if it truly concerns biologists all around the globe. In the context it would appear they would only mention the most universal topics on the front page considering they don't write an entire issue about evolution, with leading contributors from around the globe, every month. It's not hard to come to this assumption, either, but whatever - apparently everything creationist scientists do only concerns America, despite huge numbers in other countries (according to Blake's graph) which believe we did not evolve onceosever.
Yeah, at least 15% and more for just about every one of those countries is extremely large numbers against something taught in every classroom and university in the West as fact. According to Blake's graph, it can be said every single nation in the West is teeming with literally millions of creationists. Over 20% deny human evolution in just about every country, with tens of millions more undecided.. Good find Blake. Good to know there's literally tens of millions of us in the Industrialized World, with more leaning our way every day undoubtedly. Not just in America, either!
Ahh, good to see more and more are humans who don't buy evolution no matter how hard they forcefeed it to us.
Last edited by z0sa; 06-19-2009 at 12:02 PM.
Zosa is a creationist, no matter how hard he tries to deny it.
I dont think thats what it means, z0sa.
Evolution happens. It is readily observable, depending on species complexity (from bacteria to nid), environment and mating habits will determine how long it usually takes or if its even necessary. We are at the very pinnacle of existence, the chances of humanity evolving further on a grand scale could only be measured in millenia, if not eons (barring some dramatic introduction of an outside force (disease, etc)).
For instance, and I only parrot what I read (i am no biologist, thus i never participate in these threads), certain species of birds can rapidly evolve to their environment in a few generations. Length and curve of beaks, length and girth of legs/feet, length and span of wings, etc.
One species of bird can literally be seen evolving in a little less than 1/4 of our lifetime.
Point is, to categorize evolution in with the likes of astrology is to deny mathematics as organized science. Yes, there are holes, especially when you get to the genetic levels, this is readily apparent.
But to say it doesnt happen or that we (humans) are some special cir stance that was created outside the mechanism of the rest of nature suggests only our own willful ignorance and further cements our position in flat-Earth thinking.
We are not special. Our mechanisms of creation are not unique to the animals of Earth. While our path and subsequent rise up the food chain are certainly unique, and up to this point completely singular to the known universe, this does not mean that we exist outside the same method of control and natural progression. To say that our existence is something other than natural is to say we are not natural.
Im not comfortable with that idea on theological grounds and certainly uncomfortable with the general malaise and lack of inquisitivness necessary to start chalking up my species existence to the work of an unmeasureable, all-knowing being of supreme intellect. I find creationism and all its forms an indictment on the human engine of critical thinking. One can only approach quandries with certain abject biases before those biases clutter and sometimes destroy the spirit of discovery. Im glad the learned community agrees.
Last edited by DarkReign; 06-19-2009 at 01:42 PM.
This is Adaptation, and I think me and you have both agreed before this definitely exists. I don't know what kind of world we'd have if animals couldn't adapt their environment.For instance, and I only parrot what I read (i am no biologist, thus i never participate in these threads), certain species of birds can rapidly evolve to their environment in a few generations. Length and curve of beaks, length and girth of legs/feet, length and span of wings, etc.
But like I said then, those birds changing beaks and feet and wings and overall size, etc - their DNA never fundamentally changes or mutates. All the info to adapt and survive, if possible, has been pre-written. Besides the fact this clearly denotes a designer, it really doesn't prove anything about macroevolution.
In what other country is this as big an issue as in the United States?If it wasn't a veritable 'hot topic' like Blake thinks, why would it be on the front page of a magazine, concerned exclusively this January issue with evolution, with contributors from around the globe?
Because it is an issue?
If "God did it" was an acceptable answer to most scientific problems, we would not have thermal dynamics, relativity, gravity and a myriad of other elementary school book material to teach our children. Even worse, we would not have the thousands of physicists, astronmers and mathematicians we have today who pursue areas of their study to the extreme boudaries where the rules and laws they were taught their whole life come into question because it is quite truly undiscovered territory at the fringe.
Often times, they are very very wrong. But when they are right, they can plot the galaxy to within a couple thousand meters of one another, calculate the possible expansion of our Sun and plot the trajectory of an inbound object as it passes through the various gravitional forces acting upon it as it passes by the great planets and their satellites.
It is important for the sciences to pursue their chosen areas of discpline with great vigor and without "God did it" thinking, because "God did it" will become the defacto answer to every roadblock encountered throughout the journey, stunting our growth and creating an easy answer to complex questions.
Moreover, it creates a centralized power outside our control, subject to interpretation...loathe be the day someone rests the power of interpretation from the masses and God forbid, centralizes that interpretational power over the masses.
Drones in a hive, we will be.
Thanks, but it's not my graph. It's National Geographics's graph. Good to know you are finally reading.According to Blake's graph, it can be said every single nation in the West is teeming with literally millions of creationists. Over 20% deny human evolution in just about every country, with tens of millions more undecided.. Good find Blake. Good to know there's literally tens of millions of us in the Industrialized World, with more leaning our way every day undoubtedly. Not just in America, either!
Nobody is saying that there aren't people and scientists around the world who are creationists like you.......that's not the question.
The question is "In what country is this currently an issue like it is here in the United States."
You said you had tons of proof. Still waiting.....
Sorry for typing errors, Im not editing them out.
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