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Top 3 to 5.
More accomplishements:
Jordan
Jabbar
About Equal
Magic
Bill Russell
Ahead of
Bird
Shaq
Chamberlain
Mailman
Pet
West
Baylor
Olajuwon
Cousy
Havlicek
Oscar
Kobe
Sam Jones
1.Jordan
2.Duncan
3:Chamberlain
4:Jabbar
5:Russel
Top 3 to 5.
More accomplishements:
Jordan
Jabbar
About Equal
Magic
Bill Russell
Ahead of
Bird
Shaq
Chamberlain
Mailman
Pet
West
Baylor
Olajuwon
Cousy
Havlicek
Oscar
Kobe
Sam Jones
Tim ahead of wilt, bird and magic? No way!
But he is a top 10 for sure
How does Timmy have more accomplishments than Russell (10 les) and Magic (5)?
I would put him slightly ahead of Bird. I think another ring would put him right there with Magic, and Wilt, there will never be another Wilt. IMO, he is the GOAT.
top 5 easily
Agreed, at the moment I think you still have to rank Shaq and his ability to get 3 different teams to the Finals 1 spot higher. But with another ring Duncan moves into the Top 5
TOP 5 Always
MJ
Magic
Russell
Other Candidates
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
Next Group
Duncan
Shaq
Robertson
Pet
West
Kobe
Olajuwon
Last edited by NewcastleKEG; 06-16-2009 at 10:53 PM.
All those COUNTLESS loses to Bill and the Celtics takes some of the shine off to me. It's not like Shaq wouldn't have been able to accomplish the same in that era
TOP 10 easily.
If I was putting together the greatest team ever, these would be my players:
Russell - C
Duncan - PF
Bird - SF
Jordan - SG
Magic - PG
I am a big fan of defensive basketball hence my choice of Russell. Incredibly high BB IQ, ultra athletic and the fiercest compe or and leader ever (or at least equal to MJ).
Otherwise my choice would be kareem if I wanted more offense but even w/o him I don't think scoring points would pose a problem.
That's why I think he is the best of all-time. He didn't have much of a supporting cast either until he went to the Lakers and his role changed. Oh, and who can forget a 45-year old Wilt just flat out abusing Magic Johnson in 1 on 1, and in Lakers practices? Magic even brings it up from time to time.
I'd put Wilt ahead of Russell. Everyone who knows anything about the era always picks Wilt ahead of Russellbecause they know that Russell beat Wilt because Bill had vastly superior teams. If you want defense, the stat keeper for the 76ers (who's the most respected stat guy in the NBA) claims that Wilt blocked 20 shots or more in quite a few games. His rebounding was off the charts. If you want offense, how does 50 ppg for a season sound, including a 100 point game.
If you want an athlete, how does a college high jump champion sound?
Wilt was by far the greatest big man ever.
Duncan would be Top 10 ahead of Shaq. Duncan has a higher winning percentage in the regular season and the postseason than Shaq does.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...2&sportCat=nba
Check the chart, about halfway down.
Last edited by Nathan Explosion; 06-18-2009 at 01:15 AM.
by the time his career is over, he'll probably be #8 after..
cousy
russell
chamberlain
kareem
magic
pippen
jordan
but if he can get 7 more rings he'll be tied with bill russell at the top =)
Wilt was more imposing physically but psychologically he was vulnerable. I think his ego would be a problem in a team of superstars I described. He was not a team-oriented player..not until his later years with the lakers when he concentrated on defense and rebounding. Nope, I still favor Russell because I think he would make his teammates better. Wilt would most probably be a distraction.
I think Wilt knew how to be a good teammate, he just did what he had to to make his team the best it could be. He followed up his 50 ppg season by leading the league in assists the next year.
The four greatest accomplishments for an NBA player are:
rings
MVPs (both regular season and Finals)
1st-team All-NBA team (this award goes back to before there was even an NBA)
If you add it up, Tim has 18 of these, more than everyone else except MJ (27), Jabbar (24), Magic, and Russell.
Tim had 18 if these in his first 10 seasons, something NO ONE has done before.
Russell has 19 and Magic 20.
But Tim is not done yet. He barely missed out on first team this season, by 5 meager points to Dirk, and he had the award wrapped up by midseason, with only an injury costing him. The same thing happened to Tim in 2006, when he was edged out by LeBron, because Tim was injured the scond half.
Actually someone on BSPN said that Timmy is the only one of the three who is the best ever at his position. He said that kobe and shaq were all time greats, BUT not THE best at their positions like Timmy is.
So if you look at it from a position view, then Timmy is top 5 which is amazing. I am going to cry like a baby when he retires.
Do you believe Duncan is better than Bill Russell?
Also, isn't it a little unfair to Russell that you name among your most important accomplishments, something that he had no chance at because it didn't exist at the time of his career except for his last season?
+1actually someone on bspn said that timmy is the only one of the three who is the best ever at his position. He said that kobe and shaq were all time greats, but not the best at their positions like timmy is.
So if you look at it from a position view, then timmy is top 5 which is amazing. I am going to cry like a baby when he retires.
I try not to think about it. I can't imagine not watching him play.I am going to cry like a baby when he retires.
Better than Russell? Why not?
Duncan was taller and had a better offensive game. Duncan has longer arms and is a much better free throw shooter. Duncan has a better outside shot and better bank shot. Duncan did not have as good of teammates. Russell had top 50 players for teammates, including Cousy, Sam Jones, Havlicek, and Bill Sharman, plus other hall-of-famers like Frank Ramsey, Tom Heinson, Bailey Howell, KC Jones, Clyde Lovellette.
Russell: 4 top 50s, and 9 HoFers
Duncan: 1 top 50 (DRob), and 2 Hofers (assuming Manu and Parker make it)
Also, winning a le in a league with 30 teams means you beat 29 teams.
Russell beat 7 teams for his les in his 8-team league.
4 x 29 = 116
11 x 7 = 77
Duncan > Russell
Russell had less teams to work with but that only made it tougher because everyone was familiar with everyone else and the talent pool was much deeper. Plus Russell didn't have the advantages in travel and medical technologies today's players have.
While I am a huge Duncan fan, IMO Russell was better.
Doesn't matter though because, they played different positions so its kind of a moot point anyway. I will say that each is the best at his position. Each player redefined his position.
1 thing I am a little confused though.
the whole 4 X 29 = 116
I am guessing 4 les and 29 teams, what is the 116?
Duncan defeated more teams for his 4 les than Russell did for his 11 les.
Duncan defeated 116 teams?
Which goes back to my point about the talent pool. The number of teams doesn't make it tougher when more than half those teams are weaker. One thing that Duncan has had to do which makes it tougher is longer seasons and post seasons.
When Russell came into the league, it was before the baby boom, blacks were not fully integrated into the league, and there were no international compe ion.Ahh.
Which goes back to my point about the talent pool. The number of teams doesn't make it tougher when more than half those teams are weaker. One thing that Duncan has had to do which makes it tougher is longer seasons and post seasons.
The talent level of the NBA did not approach modern standards until about 1970, and even then it was diluted by the ABA.
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