Microbe Wakes Up After 120,000 Years

[Blake]

This is Adaptation, and I think me and you have both agreed before this definitely exists. I don't know what kind of world we'd have if animals couldn't adapt their environment.

But like I said then, those birds changing beaks and feet and wings and overall size, etc - their DNA never fundamentally changes or mutates. All the info to adapt and survive, if possible, has been pre-written. Besides the fact this clearly denotes a designer, it really doesn't prove anything about macroevolution.

So animals are designed to adapt and change to their environment, but it's out of the realm of possibility that they evolved? Why?

What's the problem that people like you have with God having come up with the process of macroevolution?

In what other country is this as big an issue as the United States?

[z0sa]

In what other country is this as big an issue as in the United States?

first, it's where is it an issue. Obviously, tens of millions of people think its an issue.

then, it's where is it a hot topic. hundreds of scientists with impressive credentials advocating it against all mainstream science makes it so for any country's scientists.

now it's where is it as big of an issue as in the USA.

I won't comply with your constantly shifting magnitudes.

[z0sa]

If "God did it" was an acceptable answer to most scientific problems, we would not have thermal dynamics, relativity, gravity and a myriad of other elementary school book material to teach our children. Even worse, we would not have the thousands of physicists, astronmers and mathematicians we have today who pursue areas of their study to the extreme boudaries where the rules and laws they were taught their whole life come into question because it is quite truly undiscovered territory at the fringe.

Often times, they are very very wrong. But when they are right, they can plot the galaxy to within a couple thousand meters of one another, calculate the possible expansion of our Sun and plot the trajectory of an inbound object as it passes through the various gravitional forces acting upon it as it passes by the great planets and their satellites.

It is important for the sciences to pursue their chosen areas of discpline with great vigor and without "God did it" thinking, because "God did it" will become the defacto answer to every roadblock encountered throughout the journey, stunting our growth and creating an easy answer to complex questions.

Moreover, it creates a centralized power outside our control, subject to interpretation...loathe be the day someone rests the power of interpretation from the masses and God forbid, centralizes that interpretational power over the masses.

Drones in a hive, we will be.

You know, I agree. "God did it" usually is never an acceptable answer, and shouldn't be. I agree that nature's laws are nearly 100% prevalent.

But when we talk of unobservable history and its origins, and its interpretation, I'm not sure "God did it" is such a horribly bad observation in some cases. Many things, like all of life, are so well designed, so crying out of creation, that it requires you to reach far outside the box to correlate it with a purely naturalistic worldview.

While I offer no 'rebuttal,' your posts definitely moved me. Believe it or not, communication with the other side just doesn't happen for creationist advocates, and I wish it did. But we have to meet each other somewhere in the middle.

[Blake]

first, it's where is it an issue. Obviously, tens of millions of people think its an issue.

In what country?

then, it's where is it a hot topic. hundreds of scientists with impressive credentials advocating it against all mainstream science makes it so for any country's scientists.

Nobody asked for a list of scientists. Scientists opinions do not automatically make it an issue in any particular country, no matter how many times you try to draw on that faulty conclusion.

I'm just asking for the name of a country.

now it's where is it as big of an issue as in the USA.

In what country is it an issue?

I won't comply with your constantly shifting magnitudes.

Naw, the question is the same. I'm trying to re-word it for you to make it as simple to answer as possible. for your sake, I'll start back with the question the way it was originally worded:

"In what country is this an issue?"

cmon.......tons of proof.......still waiting.

[Blake]

But we have to meet each other somewhere in the middle.

no we don't. Nobody has to meet you anywhere.

There is absolutely zero evidence for any type of young earth or creation theories.

You're a nut.

"I'm done with this thread."

[The Final Countdown]

LnGrrrR 2

Blake 8

z0sa 7

pppp 4

DarkReign 3

spurspf 2

[z0sa]

"I'm done with this thread."

Yeah and? Does "You're a re " also ring a bell? How about "burden of proof?"

Every country showing huge numbers of creationists, harbors the issue of creationism vs darwinism/naturalism. The proof is in the pudding.

Sorry you're so dense you have to ask the same question over and over and still not realize the answer - even when I pointed out there's hundreds of prominent creationist scientists from around the globe, including two easily recognizeable examples from Europe to help spell it out for you. , PPPP didn't even try and give me anything real. He knows he's ing stupid for trying the route he did - including his "any european will agree" bit you proved wrong for me. Alas, you apparently do not share his wisdom.

[Sir Larry Wildman]

Yeah and? Does "You're a re " also ring a bell?

Every country showing huge numbers of creationists, harbors the issue of creationism vs darwinism/naturalism. The proof is in the pudding.

Sorry you're so dense you have to ask the same question over and over and still not realize the answer. , PPPP didn't even try and give me anything real. He knows he's ing stupid for trying the route he did - including his "any european will agree" bit you proved wrong for me. Alas, you apparently do not share his wisdom.

Z0sa wins!!

[Phineas J. Whoopee]

Of course the Earth was created. That is a no brainer.

[Blake]

Yeah and? Does "You're a re " also ring a bell? How about "burden of proof?"

Yeah, you claimed there is tons of proof that this an issue. You put the burden of proof on yourself.

Ding.

Every country showing huge numbers of creationists, harbors the issue of creationism vs darwinism/naturalism. The proof is in the pudding.

No it doesn't unless they make it an issue out in public, with your average citizens, which is what we are talking about here. Again, nobody asked for your numbers of creationists or a list of dead creationst scientists.

In what country is this an issue in?

Sorry you're so dense you have to ask the same question over and over and still not realize the answer

Clearly you are so dense that you don't realize that you haven't named one country yet.

- even when I pointed out there's hundreds of prominent creationist scientists from around the globe, including two easily recognizeable examples from Europe to help spell it out for you.

Again, you provided the 'research' done by dead guys.

What country is this an issue in?

, PPPP didn't even try and give me anything real. He knows he's ing stupid for trying the route he did - including his "any european will agree" bit you proved wrong for me. Alas, you apparently do not share his wisdom.

you're taking him saying "any european will agree" waaaay too literally...

which would explain why you still think the Earth was literally created in 7 days.

What country is this an issue in?

Again.....the question is not "how many creationists are there in the world?"

the question is (as clear as I can possibly make it for you):

What country is this an issue in?

[Blake]

Ah! I finally found out where it's an issue as recent as 2007: Turkey!

Turkish scientists confront creationists' theory

By Nicholas Birch in Istanbul


Saturday, 14 July 2007

Tensions are rising in Turkey's schools and universities as academics and scientists confront the growing influence of Islamic creationists.

"Without science, modern civilisation is impossible," says Haluk Ertan, a geneticist at Istanbul University, "and yet Turkey has become the headquarters of creationism in the Middle East." Tarkan Yavas, the public face of the Science Research Foundation (BAV), a shadowy group that has led the charge against evolutionary theory in Turkey for 15 years, boasts: "Not just the Middle East, the world."

Headed by Adnan Oktar, a university dropout turned charismatic preacher, BAV made international headlines in February when it mass-mailed its lavishly illustrated, 6kgAtlas of Creation to scientists and schools throughout western Europe. Hundreds of pages juxtapose photographs of fossils and living species, arguing the similarities disprove claims that species adapt with time. Elsewhere, belief in evolution is blamed for communism, Nazism and - under a large photograph of the World Trade Centre in flames - the 9/11 attacks.

"Hitler and Mao were Darwinists," Mr Oktar told journalists last month on a luxury boat trip arranged to answer questions about the atlas. "Darwinism is the only philosophy which values conflict."

A survey last year showed that only 25 per cent of Turks accepted evolution. In a similar survey in 2005, almost 50 per cent of science teachers said they questioned or rejected the theory. "Darwinism is dying in Turkey, thanks to us," says Mr Yavas.

That may be premature. BAV, secretive about the sources of its considerable wealth and widely accused of brainwashing its initiates, has been taken to court repeatedly in the past decade. In May, Turkey's Supreme Court opened the way for a new trial when it argued that criminal charges levelled against the group in 2005 should not have been dropped because of time constraints.

The silent war on creationism began last spring, when 700 academics took the Ministry of Education to court, calling for references to creationism in school science syllabuses since 1985 to be removed. "There are compulsory religious classes in Turkish schools as it is," says Ozgur Genc, a biologist who began organising the legal case after five schoolteachers in southern Turkey were transferred to another school for teaching evolution. The court has yet to make a decision.

Like BAV, which has organised hundreds of conferences on creationism over the past 10 years as well as a recent flurry of American-style "creation museums", opponents of creationism are taking their arguments to the Turkish people.

There have been scientific conferences in towns along the Anatolian peninsula in the past few months. One popular science magazine has devoted its last two issues to answering what it calls BAV's "charlatanry".

Nazli Somel, a former teacher writing a doctorate on Turkish creationism, says: "When the creationist movement surfaced in the early 1990s, many scientists just laughed at it. It's good to see they're taking it seriously now."

Yet, while most public figures avoid associating themselves too closely with Mr Oktar's group, more up-market versions of creationism have powerful supporters in Turkey.

The notion of intelligent design (ID), which suggests some cellular structures are too complex to have evolved naturally, is a case in point. In the United States in December 2005, a judge echoed most experts in calling it "a religious view, not a scientific theory" and blocked attempts to add it to a Pennsylvania school's syllabus.

Huseyin Celik, Turkey's Education minister, publicly supports it. "Evolutionary theory overlaps with atheism, intelligent design with belief," the former university lecturer said on Turkish television last November.

With polls showing that only 1 per cent of Turks are atheists, he added, not allowing ID into science textbooks would be tantamount to censorship.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...ry-457164.html

[step up to the mike]

Dam! out of nowhere Blake comes in with a devastating right hook.!

[pppp]

Yeah and? Does "You're a re " also ring a bell? How about "burden of proof?"

Every country showing huge numbers of creationists, harbors the issue of creationism vs darwinism/naturalism. The proof is in the pudding.

Sorry you're so dense you have to ask the same question over and over and still not realize the answer - even when I pointed out there's hundreds of prominent creationist scientists from around the globe, including two easily recognizeable examples from Europe to help spell it out for you. , PPPP didn't even try and give me anything real. He knows he's ing stupid for trying the route he did - including his "any european will agree" bit you proved wrong for me. Alas, you apparently do not share his wisdom.

Are you for real?

Ok I'll say it again: only in the US is this issue so present. And any European will agree that's it's not such an issue here.

not in UK, not in France, not in Spain, not in Germany, not in the Netherlands, and so on...there's no such "frontpage" public debate.

Why can't you name ONE country where the issue is as present as in the US (despite all the google or wikipedia searches I'm sure you performed)?

Just one...Blake asked you like 10 times and you keep avoiding the question

Find me one major politician of any of these countries speaking of this matter in the last 10 or 20 years...

[pppp]

you're taking him saying "any european will agree" waaaay too literally...

which would explain why you still think the Earth was literally created in 7 days.

What country is this an issue in?

Again.....the question is not "how many creationists are there in the world?"

the question is (as clear as I can possibly make it for you):

What country is this an issue in?

Thanks for doing the explaining, It seems I have trouble reaching this guy

[The Final Countdown]

LnGrrR 3

Blake 9

z0sa 9

pppp 5

DarkReign 3

spurspf 2

[z0sa]

Thanks for doing the explaining, It seems I have trouble reaching this guy

What's hilarious is if either one of you fools would have done a little searching yourself (or had a shred of sense), you'd KNOW without a doubt that non-American creationist material abounds EVERYWHERE.

Contesting Evolution: European Creationists Take on Darwin. February 25, 2009 recent enough for you two bags?

The US isn't the only place with heated debates about Darwin's theory of evolution: Europe has its own hardcore creationists and intelligent design backers, too. Increasingly, they are making their voices heard.

Hey, its not my words, its the words of that European you ing idiots. Although knowing that there's tens of millions of us in Europe should spell that out.

Next shall we?

http://www.creationconferences.co.uk/Programme.pdf: this is the programme for the ninth European Creation Conference, which is yet to occur this year in August. They have held them for multiple decades as plain as day showcases against evolution. So why do they keep holding them if this is a dead issue? To make it an issue for all you who ignore us, like pppphead? Don't waste your brain power on logic, though, deadbeats.

How about some Discovery blogging on this very subject? Oh wow, yeah, everyone but Dumb and Dumber agrees: Creationism is quite a hot topic, especially for education, in the entire West.

70% of science teachers think creationism should not be taught, which sounds good until you realize that means 30% of science teachers think it should be. About 3/4 of science teachers think it should be discussed in the classroom (one assumes the survey distinguishes between discussing it and teaching it).

Oh, I'm sorry, are these school teachers were talking about? British ones? So, um, looks like the issue is the exact same kind of "so..........present......." in England, minimum. There's your answer to this: "What country is this an issue in?"


You both lose, again. I shouldn't have to make this post for two adults with fingers or brains, children. I know you want to pop off at the mouth, just don't.