Jefferson Deal = Gasol Deal?

[iggypop123]

Neither of whom will ever play a minute for the Bucks.

they are likely to get all 3 back now

[ambchang]

AND cap space and the ability to rebuild through the draft. Gasol gone means high lottery picks. Use common sense.

Did I ever argue otherwise? But why would you trade Gasol for minimum return and be terrible, than to trade Gasol for a couple of higher picks and be terrible? You seem to see this is a black and white issue, where Gasol had to be traded to the Lakers with minimum return, or not traded at all. There are other possibilities.

No, Memphis got back young talent including picks which is young talent. Cap space will allow Memphis to sign a player that WANTS to play there. Matter of fact the cap space created by Gasol being gone means they can sign two player and keep their young talent around when the time comes.

Kwame Brown and Javaris Crittenton are definitely not young talent. The 2 1st round picks are probably low picks, even at the time of the trade, and the Grizzly has to give up one 2nd round pick, which would be only a few spots from the 2010 1st round pick they got because Grizzlies were supposed to be horrible.

So the only person of any value that the Grizzlies got was Marc Gasol at that point.

No it wasn't reasonable at the time since Gasol was constantly complaining and asking out of Memphis. At the time he was overwhelming thought of as overpaid for what he brought.

Who actually thought that he was overpaid for what he brought?

Kobe Bryant wanted out earlier, you didn't see the Lakers trading him away so that they can suck real bad, get lottery picks, and have a free agent who wants to play with them sign, did you?

No, they thought he was their franchise player and he proved he wasn't capable. 0-12 in the playoffs speak for itself. Yeah, he sure carried them to a goose egg.

He was the franchise player nonetheless, and it was a playoff team. He played great with the Grizzlies in the playoffs. Not his fault that the team had no point guard, PF or anything else other than a outside shooting Mike Miller.

Hey, Kobe Bryant couldn't get the Lakers out of the first round with no support either. You don't just dump him.

He averaged 12 and 7. He's a top 10 center in the NBA. Oh and young.

Top 10 center?

Dwight Howard
Yao Ming
Pau Gasol
Andris Biedrins
Andrew Bogut
Marcus Camby
Tyson Chandler
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Al Jefferson
Chris Kaman
Shaquille O'Neal
Emeka Okafor

That's 12 right there, 11 if you don't count Al Jefferson, 13 if you count Tim Duncan.

Then there are the Samuel Dalembert, Brook Lopez, Andrew Bynum, Greg Oden, Mehmet Okur, Joakim Noah, Nene Hilario, and Al Harford, all who has an argument at being better than Marc Gasol.

NBA players follow the money. Always have always will. And their plan was to give the team to a bunch of young guys to develop them while stinking up the place in order to attain a top 5 pick. It worked.

Didn't work out very well for the Bulls did it. The only players who would follow the money are the players who are good enough to get a large contract, but not good enough to get a team over the top kind of player. In other words, someone who is worse than Gasol.

And how do you figured it worked? They got OJ Mayo after trading Pau Gasol, and got the 2nd pick in an extremely weak draft where both of their prospects didn't want to play for them.

Prior to trading Gasol, the Grizzlies were 13-32, or 29%, and after trading Gasol away, they were 9-28, or 24%. One could argue that they would get OJ Mayo regardless, especially when he was actually drafted by the Wolves and traded to the Grizz.

Go look at the FA agent list for this season and next. Plenty of players out there and not enough teams to pay them all. Just because they don't sign Wade or Lebron doesn't mean they can't sign two real good player wtih the cap space to compliment their young core.

So they are trading away one franchise player for two "real-good" player, with an average of around $8m each?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s...eeagents-09-10

I suppose they can sign Josh Howard, but then, Howard isn't someone who can get you out of the first round, or even in the playoffs.

Funny thing is Memphis is looking much better off than the Bucks. Gave up a 20 pt scorer for LUXURY TAX relief. Yeah I'm sure players are dying to sign in Milwaukee. Even your arguments are hypocritical.

Because the Bucks put themselves in a horrible situation in the first place by getting Jefferson. Their choice was either trade Jefferson, or lose Villanueva and Sessions. But who knows? Maybe the Bucks would suck so bad for the next 15 years, they would draft the best player who ever played in the NBA. I bet you would link it all the way back to say that the Bucks actually got cap relief and the best player ever for RJ.

[exstatic]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

Gasol isn't a role player. Jefferson is, albeit a very well paid one. On his best day on any kind of playoff team, he's the third banana.

[exstatic]

they are likely to get all 3 back now

There's no percentage in cutting Thomas. He gets paid in full, no matter what.

[ploto]

they are likely to get all 3 back now

They don't want all three back.

[Allanon]

Collussion? Hahah no collusion, just a team dumping salary and another getting a great deal. No different than the Memphis Grizzlies trade to the Lakers.

There's definitely gonna be some ammo if the hypocrisy of "collusion" ever gets brought up again

[Hornets1]

Duncan and Manu are getting up there age-wise, and that gives the Spurs a win-now mindset, which means this trade makes a lot of sense. The other option would be an overhaul, but manu and timmy still have a few good years left. BTW, Good for duncan = Great.

[picnroll]

Collussion? Hahah no collusion, just a team dumping salary and another getting a great deal. No different than the Memphis Grizzlies trade to the Lakers.

There's definitely gonna be some ammo if the hypocrisy of "collusion" ever gets brought up again

WTF are you talking about. Memphis didn't get a great deal. Getting even one decent lottery pick would have still been a steal for the other team. Getting was getting rolled. Like the guy said, so far the Grizz have gotten a lower tier center who has played above expectations for the guy who probably deserved the MVP trophy in the 2010 finals. When Jefferson merits a finals MVP trophy get back to us.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

So the Spurs took note and learned and got themselves something for cap space like LA did.

Do Spurs fans still cry over the Gasol deal? SA actually gave up less for RJ than LA for Gasol.

Just wondering....

What bull .

Gasol is one of the top 10 big men in the league, Jefferson is an above average 3.

Go back to your troll hole.

[Allanon]

WTF are you talking about. Memphis didn't get a great deal. Getting even one decent lottery pick would have still been a steal for the other team. Getting was getting rolled. Like the guy said, so far the Grizz have gotten a lower tier center who has played above expectations for the guy who probably deserved the MVP trophy in the 2010 finals. When Jefferson merits a finals MVP trophy get back to us.

Memphis got an excellent deal:

1) Pau Gasol was several years removed from even being an All-Star when the Lakers got him. He was good but not VERY good...he only looks very good playing with the Lakers.
2) He was known to be very soft..just look at all the GaSOFT jokes around these forums.
3) He was making $16 million a year for the same numbers that Richard Jefferson puts up for $13 million

a) Kwame Brown provided Cap relief
b) Memphis got a Lotto pick
c) Marc Gasol in his rookie year is a Top 15 NBA Center...a friggin' Rookie. If the Spurs got Marc Gasol with Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, I'd favor them over the Lakers. Marc Gasol is going to be a Top 10 NBA Center this year...for $3 million a year and $13 million less than his brother Pau.

If Marc Gasol was in the 2008 draft he would have easily been a top 5 draft pick. Meanwhile, Bowen/KT/Fabricio only provide cap relief.

This Spurs/Bucks deal is MUCH better than the Lakers/Grizzlies trade.

[wut]

This is not the same at all, anyone who has any kind of Basketball IQ knows this.

Jefferson is a might make an All-Star game a few times his career player. Gasol is a should make the All-Star game as long as he's healthy type of player.

The reason Gasol's stock fell so low (ie. people weren't talking about how good he was), was due to his at ude; the guy completely felt drained and seemed to not even care playing with a team he knew could never contend for a le. You have to remember he was on a bunch of crappy Grizzly teams for many years where all the pressure was on him and he's just not the leader type. You could see it in his face that he just didn't care. In his first 2 seasons the guy was a beast and went toe-to-toe with Duncan. The trade to the Lakers was a complete STEAL (a max player who DESERVES max) for literally throw away pieces.

So when you sit there and try to compare this Spurs trade (involving multi-mid level player contracts for a max contract), to the Lakers' Gasol trade (involving multi-low level player contracts for max contract) you're just wrong, in every which way.

I went digging for Grizzly fans thoughts on the trade, this pretty much sums it up:

Wait a minute...are you freaking KIDDING me??? We've been shopping Pau Gasol for a year, and the best we can get for him is Kwame Brown?? KWAME BROWN??? Are you joking?? Have you not been paying attention? Kwame Brown is a complete STIFF!!! He good booed off the court in LA last week. Who at the Grizzlies could have POSSIBLY thought this was a good idea?? I don't care what people think of Pao personally, he was a solid player when healthy, and was putting up pretty good numbers this year. If you trade him, fine, but you HAVE to get better value than Kwame Brown. I do not understand this move AT ALL. Awful, awful, awful.

I'm pretty sure all Bucks fans are thinking right now is: "Alright, Jefferson was good, but he wasn't worth the money".

You getting my point yet?

You can compare stats all you want, but if you don't factor in that Gasol wasn't playing up to his potential due to pressure/frustration....you'll always come to the conclusion that the Grizzlies got a good deal.

[picnroll]

Memphis got an excellent deal:

1) Pau Gasol was several years removed from even being an All-Star when the Lakers got him. He was good but not VERY good...he only looks very good playing with the Lakers.
2) He was known to be very soft
3) He was making $16 million a year for the same numbers that Richard Jefferson puts up for $13 million

a) Kwame Brown provided Cap relief

Bruce Bowen, Fabricio/KT bring nothing to the Bucks except cap relief.
b) Memphis got a Lotto pick
c) Marc Gasol in his rookie year is a Top 15 NBA Center...a friggin' Rookie. If the Spurs got Marc Gasol with Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, I'd favor them over the Lakers. Marc Gasol is going to be a Top 10 NBA Center this year...for $3 million a year.

If Marc Gasol was in the 2008 draft he would have easily been a top 5 draft pick. Meanwhile, Bowen/KT/Fabricio only provide cap relief.

This Spurs/Bucks deal is MUCH better than the Lakers/Grizzlies trade.

Tell you what dildo. Send Gasol to the Spurs for Jefferson and watch the Spurs kick the Lakers asses out in the first round.

[Allanon]

Tell you what dildo. Send Gasol to the Spurs for Jefferson and watch the Spurs kick the Lakers asses out in the first round.

Tell you what , why don't you just let me have a night with your mom?

[picnroll]

Tell you what , why don't you just let me have a night with your mom?

Help yourself. She's as stiff as your arguments.

[mystargtr34]

Pau put up 20.4 PPG, 8.9 RPG, 4.6 APG, 2 BPG on 50%+ shooting while leading his team to 50 wins while being the only All-Star on the team.

Richard Jefferson has put up some nice numbers in the past - but hes never bean the main man on a playoff team. Hes damn good player, and it was a damn good trade, but hes no Gasol.

Comparing the two is like comparing Kevin Garnett to Stephen Jackson. One is a border line franchise player (Garnett is one), the other is a 2 or 3 time All-Star who would be the third option at best on a championship team.

The Lakers gave up slightly more, basically a late teen first round pick who wasnt working out, and a second round selection.

You swap Pau for Jefferson, Lakers come back to the pack, and the Spurs take their place as the sure fire favourite to win it all.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Memphis got an excellent deal:

1) Pau Gasol was several years removed from even being an All-Star when the Lakers got him. He was good but not VERY good...he only looks very good playing with the Lakers.
2) He was known to be very soft..just look at all the GaSOFT jokes around these forums.
3) He was making $16 million a year for the same numbers that Richard Jefferson puts up for $13 million

a) Kwame Brown provided Cap relief
b) Memphis got a Lotto pick
c) Marc Gasol in his rookie year is a Top 15 NBA Center...a friggin' Rookie. If the Spurs got Marc Gasol with Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, I'd favor them over the Lakers. Marc Gasol is going to be a Top 10 NBA Center this year...for $3 million a year and $13 million less than his brother Pau.

If Marc Gasol was in the 2008 draft he would have easily been a top 5 draft pick. Meanwhile, Bowen/KT/Fabricio only provide cap relief.

This Spurs/Bucks deal is MUCH better than the Lakers/Grizzlies trade.

I like you Allanon, but you are kidding yourself. Gasol didn't 'blossom' as a Laker, he was already this good, he was just playing on a bad team so non-one noticed. Also, his stats weren't similar to Jefferson's for $3mil more - try looking in the rebounds, blocks and shooting % columns and get back to me. Finally, as you know, decent SFs are a dime a dozen, decent power bigs are rare as hen's teeth.

The Lakers swapped cap relief and one draft pick (forget crittendon, who was a throw-in and made no sense for Memphis at the time given their glut of young PGs) for a proven top 10 big man, the Spurs swapped cap relief for a decent scoring SF. The Lakers achieved what shouldn't have been allowed, the Spurs made an opportunistic trade at a time when teams are giving away players to cut salary.

Tell you what. Send Gasol to the Spurs for Jefferson and watch the Spurs kick the Lakers asses out in the first round.

Exactly.

[Allanon]

Help yourself. She's as stiff as your arguments.

She might be stiff but not uncomfortable. Thanks.

[picnroll]

She might be stiff but not uncomfortable. Thanks.

I knew Kobe was into weird but didn't realize Lakers' fans were into necrophilia. Can't say as I'm entirely surprised though.

[Allanon]

I like you Allanon, but you are kidding yourself. Gasol didn't 'blossom' as a Laker, he was already this good, he was just playing on a bad team so non-one noticed. Also, his stats weren't similar to Jefferson's for $3mil more - try looking in the rebounds, blocks and shooting % columns and get back to me. Finally, as you know, decent SFs are a dime a dozen, decent power bigs are rare as hen's teeth.

You're good peoples Ruffn, I know.

I agree that decent bigs are rare. If the Lakers hadn't given up Marc Gasol, I can see it as being a good deal.

The Bucks got back absolutely nothing in terms of talent in this trade. The Grizz got Marc Gasol and a high lotto pick and their needed salary dump. Marc Gasol alone is worth Richard Jefferson.

[Allanon]

I knew Kobe was into weird but didn't realize Lakers' fans were into necrophilia. Can't say as I'm entirely surprised though.

Like I said, she's may be a bit stiff but not uncomfortable. Thanks for offering her to me, you're a good son.

[wut]

I like you Allanon, but you are kidding yourself. Gasol didn't 'blossom' as a Laker, he was already this good, he was just playing on a bad team so non-one noticed. Also, his stats weren't similar to Jefferson's for $3mil more - try looking in the rebounds, blocks and shooting % columns and get back to me. Finally, as you know, decent SFs are a dime a dozen, decent power bigs are rare as hen's teeth.



Exactly.

Agreed...and to top it off he was 27 (at the time of trade)....a 27yr old 7 foot all-star for throw-a-ways.

I think the best point made in this whole thread is if the Lakers would trade Gasol for Jefferson... are you getting equal trade? Clearly not....not even close.

[Spursfan092120]

nice story, son.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You're good peoples Ruffn, I know.

I agree that decent bigs are rare. If the Lakers hadn't given up Marc Gasol, I can see it as being a good deal.

The Bucks got back absolutely nothing in terms of talent in this trade. The Grizz got Marc Gasol and a high lotto pick and their needed salary dump. Marc Gasol alone is worth Richard Jefferson.

So you'd swap Marc for Pau? Of course you wouldn't.

Look, this is a good trade forthe Spurs, no doubt, but the Gasol trade was unbelieveable. Your team essentially traded some average NBA talent for a Top 10 big just entering his prime who was exactly what the team needed to put it over the top. There's no contest that landing Pau was a better trade than landing Richard Jefferson.

[picnroll]

Agreed...and to top it off he was 27 (at the time of trade)....a 27yr old 7 foot all-star for throw-a-ways.

I think the best point made in this whole thread is if the Lakers would trade Gasol for Jefferson... are you getting equal trade? Clearly not....not even close.

I have yet to hear a Laker saying they'd offer up Gasol for Jefferson. Best argument they make is the Grizz got a middle level center who played far beyond what the Lakers, Grizz or anyone else expected at the time of the trade. Meanwhile the "centerpiece", Crittendon, has bounced and will continue to do so.

[Allanon]

So you'd swap Marc for Pau? Of course you wouldn't.

Look, this is a good trade forthe Spurs, no doubt, but the Gasol trade was unbelieveable. Your team essentially traded some average NBA talent for a Top 10 big just entering his prime who was exactly what the team needed to put it over the top. There's no contest that landing Pau was a better trade than landing Richard Jefferson.

No, not straight up. But Marc, a high lotto pick and $13 million in salary relief like the Grizz got and you have a deal, Sir.

That high lottery pick could be a Carmelo Anthony or Blake Griffin, Ricky Rubio.

The Grizz got 1 high level talent in Marc Gasol and a possible franchise player in their high lotto pick PLUS they got the salary cap they needed. What did the Bucks get?