Michael Jackson Dead at 50

[whottt]

This is about where I am with the whole thing.

I was a huge Michael Jackson fan as a kid. Huge. And I still am a dancing fool every time something from "Thriller" or "Off the Wall" or the Jackson 5 pops up on my iPod. But I'm finding it hard to mourn the passing of an artist who, for all intents and purposes, has been gone a long time. He's been nothing but a creepo (whether or not he touched little boys, he was clearly ed in the head) and a punchline for the last 15+ years, and it would be incredibly disingenuous for me to now pretend like I didn't laugh at a lot of those jokes over the years.

I don't know how old you and Manny are, but a generation of kids grew up with Michael Jackson, I mean when he was a kid too.

Looking at what he was, and what he became, and how his life ended is sad for that segment...his generation.

Plus it's that whole becoming aware of your own mortality thing as well.


There's something really sad about the course of his life, and not all the money in the world can wash that sadness away.


You and Manny probably first seeing him when he was already an adult don't have that same level of connection.

I mean he literally grew up right there on stage to a generation, and if you look, it's that generation that is mourning him the most and seems to be the most emotional about it.


And I enjoy the jokes and think he turned into a freak as much as anyone else...but he wasn't always that way.


Just goes to show how little money and success truly mean in the grand scheme of things, because he had all that in spades yet I can't shake the feeling he went through his entire life empty and lost.

[resistanze]

Incorrect.

MJ paid them up front in a "good faith" (horrible turn of phrase to use considering the subject) gesture to not get sued/accused/imprisoned.

...

Basically, line them all up shoulder to shoulder and walk slowly down the line pulling the trigger while looking them in their animal eyes. The world would have been better for it.

I think you're selling many of these families short. They weren't all s bags. Many of them were underprivleged, but that doesn't mean they would all sell their children for money. Lower class individuals have morals and principles as well. I have a very hard time believing that the worst that could happen to MJ during this entire period was having s bag parents suing him, if he was indeed molesting so many children.

You mean there wasn't one parent that found out about what MJ was doing and wanted to take a crack at him? No parent that would take justice (MJ behind bars) as opposed to money?

The idea that all the children MJ systematically molested were from parents he think would be "okay" with it for money, seems far-fetched. Especially when you consider the sheer amount of families that stayed at his ranch over the years.

And just for accuracy's sake, he said they allowed them to stay in his bedroom, but I'm pretty certain he stated he never slept with him. Not that I'd ever allow my children to be with such an individual, but if you're going MJ's own words as admission of his guilt, you would wonder why he'd even admit to allowing children in his room in the first place if he's going to deny molesting them.

You can scream he's guilty and celebrate his death all you want, but we'll never know. Additionally, the maintenance of his guilt based on a convoluted premise that involves MJ intricately selecting s bag parents that would their children is really out there. It seems much more believable that the parents had no idea, if we're going that route.

[JudynTX]

TMZ has the 911 call, and they are saying that he was dead at the scene but his personal doc wouldn't let the EMTs say it, that he insisted they take him to the hospital

I heard it.

[Spurminator]

It's weird how we're obsessed with trainwrecks but still feel the need to mourn when the inevitable wreck happens.

Didn't everyone see this coming? Wasn't this what we've been waiting for? Why all of the surprise? Frankly, if you told me in 1994 that Michael Jackson would live to be 50, THAT would have surprised me.

[JudynTX]

It's weird how we're obsessed with trainwrecks but still feel the need to mourn when the inevitable wreck happens.

So why did you start a thread about Swayze supposedly dying?

Let us mourn the way we want to, geez.

[Spurminator]

Mourn all you want, no one's stopping you. Just an observation.

And Swayze doesn't really have anything to do with it.

[Thunder Dan]

Mourn all you want, no one's stopping you. Just an observation.

I don't think that anyone expected Michael Jackson to live long, or that we are saying he wasn't a train wreck. It's just weird to see someone so big, for so long die. Michael Jackson was the biggest star in the world for my whole life (born 1983), it's just weird that he is dead.

[whottt]

It's weird how we're obsessed with trainwrecks but still feel the need to mourn when the inevitable wreck happens.

Didn't everyone see this coming? Wasn't this what we've been waiting for? Why all of the surprise? Frankly, if you told me in 1994 that Michael Jackson would live to be 50, THAT would have surprised me.

See I have a completely different view of it....I am stunned he is dead. I did not see it coming, I expected him to be there at the end along with the roaches and rats.

He survived the change of eras in his career and remained contemporary like few others. Yeah he finally lost it, but he was contemporary for longer than he was a has been.

[Spurminator]

I don't think that anyone expected Michael Jackson to live long, or that we are saying he wasn't a train wreck. It's just weird to see someone so big, for so long die. Michael Jackson was the biggest star in the world for my whole life (born 1983), it's just weird that he is dead.

Oh I agree. I'm as sad as anyone... although "sad" doesn't really seem like the word I'm looking for. Not sure. MJ is probably the only artist whose music I have loved consistently since childhood. There was never a point in my life when I didn't like Thriller or the Jackson 5... I can't say that about any other artist I can think of that I listened to as a child. It's a weird feeling and it's also illogical. That's not to say I don't feel it.

[whottt]

I don't think that anyone expected Michael Jackson to live long, or that we are saying he wasn't a train wreck. It's just weird to see someone so big, for so long die. Michael Jackson was the biggest star in the world for my whole life (born 1983), it's just weird that he is dead.

See and here's where the divergence between you and funt and Manny and others occurs...

Michael Jackson was already well into becoming a freak by 1983. He wasn't the same kid of the Jackson 5 or the guy who made Off the Wall.


I think some people when they hear his name, this is the first image that gets conjured up:



or maybe this:




For others it might be even worse...


But to a lot, this is the image his name conjures up:




Because he was kid when they were...that's the group that is taking this the hardest.

[mrsmaalox]

And who didn't laugh at a good Michael Jackson joke?? No matter what your age is?

[whottt]

And I never got what was so great about Thriller and beyond...his most popular stuff. I was sick of his music by then. I think I liked Billy Jean when it first came out, mainly because MTV had just come out and that was one of the first videos made specifically for the video era.

But to me none of the stuff in his solo career holds up to the early 70's Jackson 5 stuff which is pretty much impossible to turn off when it comes on the radio.

And I never liked the glove wearing guy...but the kid I liked.

I grew up roller skating to that stuff, listening to it during the summer at six flags...etc.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I think our only hope of finding out for sure is when Corey Feldman gets so desperate for money that he writes a tell-all book.

did you see what he wore on larry king?



this is not an old pic, by the way

[DarkReign]

I think you're selling many of these families short. They weren't all s bags. Many of them were underprivleged, but that doesn't mean they would all sell their children for money. Lower class individuals have morals and principles as well. I have a very hard time believing that the worst that could happen to MJ during this entire period was having s bag parents suing him, if he was indeed molesting so many children.

Hey, good point. Cant argue.

You mean there wasn't one parent that found out about what MJ was doing and wanted to take a crack at him? No parent that would take justice (MJ behind bars) as opposed to money?

The idea that all the children MJ systematically molested were from parents he think would be "okay" with it for money, seems far-fetched. Especially when you consider the sheer amount of families that stayed at his ranch over the years.

Goooood point again, no argument.

And just for accuracy's sake, he said they allowed them to stay in his bedroom, but I'm pretty certain he stated he never slept with him. Not that I'd ever allow my children to be with such an individual, but if you're going MJ's own words as admission of his guilt, you would wonder why he'd even admit to allowing children in his room in the first place if he's going to deny molesting them.

....annnnd incorrect.

Back in Neverland, Jackson reveals to Bashir that not only does he invite disadvantaged children to his ranch, he lets them stay in his bed. Gavin Arvizo, who was then a cancer patient, states that it was Jackson's support that helped him beat his diagnosis. Bashir is stunned at this revelation, but Jackson admits that he let the boy have the bed while he slept on the floor. When asked what he gets out of this, the singer replies that he gains the joy, because "my greatest inspiration comes from kids." After this, Bashir is left feeling uneasy about the apparent obsession with children. As well as this topic, he realizes that he will have to confront Jackson on certain areas of his life that he feels he had been less than honest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_...ichael_Jackson

I tried really, really hard to find the video of the exact part of the interview, but all I could find were the hour long parts.

Just google "michael jackson interview martin bashir" and you can watch Jackson say it in his own words and Bashir's obvious disgust at this response.

You can scream he's guilty and celebrate his death all you want, but we'll never know. Additionally, the maintenance of his guilt based on a convoluted premise that involves MJ intricately selecting s bag parents that would their children is really out there. It seems much more believable that the parents had no idea, if we're going that route.

Watch. The. Interview.

You'd learn a lot more than you obviously care to.

[DarkReign]

did you see what he wore on larry king?



this is not an old pic, by the way

Coca-Cola in his hand.

ing traitor.

[resistanze]

Hey, good point. Cant argue.

Goooood point again, no argument.

....annnnd incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_...ichael_Jackson

I tried really, really hard to find the video of the exact part of the interview, but all I could find were the hour long parts.

Just google "michael jackson interview martin bashir" and you can watch Jackson say it in his own words and Bashir's obvious disgust at this response.

Watch. The. Interview.

You'd learn a lot more than you obviously care to.

I saw the interview at the time it came out. Not sure what you posted makes my point incorrect, unless you misinterpreted what I said initially (or perhaps I just wasn't clear). When I said he didn't sleep with the kids, I meant physically sleep with them. I knew about the sleeping on the floor while giving the kid his bed. It doesn't change the fact that he has always categorically denied all the charges against him. It doesn't negate my initial point that it is odd for an individual to make public such a fact if he believed it would make him look guilty of child molestation.

But let's not act like we're impartial parties debating over this. I think MJ was an emotionally stunted, troubled, twisted man. Because of how he was, I think he ended up being an easy target. On the other side, you've said you'd like him to burn in , so I wouldn't call you impartial, either. You have no more insight than me on what actually happened (or didn't happen) on his ranch, as much as you may like to believe so. Arguments are predicated upon the lawsuit and on his interview, none of which really implicate him. We'll never truly know, and I'm sure as not trying to change your mind on what you believe.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Coca-Cola in his hand.

ing traitor.

hey. pepsi burned mike

[DarkReign]

I saw the interview at the time it came out. Not sure what you posted makes my point incorrect, unless you misinterpreted what I said initially (or perhaps I just wasn't clear). When I said he didn't sleep with the kids, I meant physically sleep with them. I knew about the sleeping on the floor while giving the kid his bed. It doesn't change the fact that he has always categorically denied all the charges against him. It doesn't negate my initial point that it is odd for an individual to make public such a fact if he believed it would make him look guilty of child molestation.

But let's not act like we're impartial parties debating over this. I think MJ was an emotionally stunted, troubled, twisted man. Because of how he was, I think he ended up being an easy target. On the other side, you've said you'd like him to burn in , so I wouldn't call you impartial, either. You have no more insight than me on what actually happened (or didn't happen) on his ranch, as much as you may like to believe so. Arguments are predicated upon the lawsuit and on his interview, none of which really implicate him. We'll never truly know, and I'm sure as not trying to change your mind on what you believe.

Fair.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

ouch




http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/o...xntlid=sldr_hm

[duncan228]

For anyone interested, the LA Coroner is supposed to speak shortly on the initial autopsy results.

Edit: Coroner news conference delayed an hour to an hour and a half. Apparantly he's with the family and will speak after that.

[Heath Ledger]

Michael in fact did admit to sleeping with children in his bed.

[whottt]

Heath, are there any celebrities you aren't obsessed with, I mean aside from the living ones?


Dead celebrities pretty much define you on this board. And not in a good way either.

Ledger
Carradine
And now Michael Jackson.

You'd probably suck off their rotting corpses for a photo op with them.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

uh, oh.



remember he sells knives.

[whottt]

uh, oh.



remember he sells knives.

Oh really? Was he bragging about that too? Was it in conjunction with celebrity name dropping, or just info tossed out there in the course of casual conversation?

[ShoogarBear]

Lol, CNN:

Jackson dies, almost takes internet with him

http://us.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/26/mi...net/index.html