Gortat or Sheed?

[jj cain]

Athletic??? I will have what you are having... stop drinking the kool-aid.

So, Gortat isn't athletic? Moron. Now I am convinced you've actually never seen him play. I get it, he's a white 7 footer, so he's obviously slow, can't jump & uncoordinated. Cool. Your comments make you look clueless.

[EmantheSpursFan]

Hey Eman, Gortat is a Restricted FA, do you still think we will make a run at him?

Is he a restricted free agent

Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first round draft picks (see question number 41). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. However, a first round draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent following his second or third season if his team does not exercise its option to extend the player's rookie scale contract for the next season. All other free agency is limited to unrestricted free agency.

In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player by June 30. This prevents the team from not offering a contract and waiting to swoop in when the player tries to sign elsewhere. The qualifying offer ensures that the team does not gain the right of first refusal without also offering a contract themselves. The amount of the qualifying offer for players on rookie "scale" contracts is based on the player's draft position (see question number 41). The qualifying offer for all other players must be for 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary (see question number 11) plus $175,000, whichever is greater. The qualifying offer must be for one season. A player can elect to accept his qualifying offer (the qualifying offer must be accepted by March 1) and play the following season under its terms. This is sometimes done in order to become an unrestricted free agent the following summer

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q36

Even if he is i think we can still make a run at him, i think he's looking for more money and since Orlando is looking at Sheed he becomes expandable...

[Kori Ellis]

Yes, he's restricted.

[benefactor]

Dude, don't test my intelligence. I asked a RELEVANT question. IF Tim was hurting, could Pop run his offense almost as effectively with the relatively inexpereinced Gortat vs. an experienced Wallace. Again, a relevant question.
So just answer the damn question with some worthy insight.

Let's say Tim isn't hurt but he just need his rest during the game and Pop still wanted to run 4-down. Couldn't do it with Bonner or Oberto, had very limited success with Rasho, but Gortat do that? IMO right now, that's a no and if you can't see that...well, then you can't be helped. I wonder how many guys thinking Gortat are like the ones who championed SUCKMYWOKANDI all those years ago. so how did that turn out?

I called that just like I'm calling this one. Gortat, while tantalizing, is never going to be more than a JOURNEYMAN.

No...it's not a relevant question...it's a stupid question and the answer is obvious. If Tim is hurting it matters little who is playing center, because we are not going anywhere or doing anything meaningful from a championship perspective. Would we be a little better off functionally with Sheed if Duncan got hurt? Probably. But your argument means absolutely nothing on the grand scheme of things.

The last half of your scenario is even more stupid. Lol...when do we ever run 4 down when Duncan is off the floor? If Duncan is on the bench then the offense will initiated by Tony or Manu...or possibly RJ now that he is a part of the team. We will be running little to no plays for Sheed or Gortat. They will only be there to score from an opportunistic standpoint, where Sheed will hit outside shots when he is open and Gortat will score on garbage points and the pick and roll(which he is quite good at).

[jj cain]

I have seen gortat play and I simply do not believe he is worth a starting center's salary (mle or more). I do believe he is an adequete back up center and worth having for his 10-12 minutes a game. The le of this thread is gortat or sheed and I choose sheed and believe he is still a bald head and shoulders above Gortat. I believe sheed is still better defensivly and can still stretch a defense with his outside shooting.

Like I posted earlier in this thread. Gortat had 16 games this year where he got 20 or more minutes, most of those were 20-25, but he had a few big minute games when Howard was out.

In those 16, he averaged 9 points, 9 rebounds & 1.6 blocks. In those 16, he had 6 13+ rebound games including one with 18. He had 5 games with 3 or more blocks including one with 5.

In games where he got 28 min's or more (which would be a reasonable number as a starting C) he averaged 10 points, 10.7 rebounds, 1.7 blocks & 1.3 steals.

Now please tell me 30 other centers in the league that do better than that.

Sheed averaged 12 & 7 the last 3 years & averaged 1.3 blocks & .9 steals this year. He also missed around 20 games this past season.

[EmantheSpursFan]

like i posted earlier in this thread. Gortat had 16 games this year where he got 20 or more minutes, most of those were 20-25, but he had a few big minute games when howard was out.

In those 16, he averaged 9 points, 9 rebounds & 1.6 blocks. In those 16, he had 6 13+ rebound games including one with 18. He had 5 games with 3 or more blocks including one with 5.

In games where he got 28 min's or more (which would be a reasonable number as a starting c) he averaged 10 points, 10.7 rebounds, 1.7 blocks & 1.3 steals.

Now please tell me 30 other centers in the league that do better than that.

Sheed averaged 12 & 7 the last 3 years & averaged 1.3 blocks & .9 steals this year. He also missed around 20 games this past season.

+1

[gaspar]

"Gortat or Sheed?"
Ask Delambert this question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzu0A5FKuI especially 4:25-7:35

[EmantheSpursFan]

He's been living in the shadow in Howard i think if the spurs get him its going to allow him to have a breakout year!

[Kori Ellis]

He's been living in the shadow in Howard i think if the spurs get him its going to allow him to have a breakout year!

So how much do you want to pay him?

Do you think he's worth making an offer to and then having to wait the 7 days (because he's restricted) and maybe missing out on other players during that time?

[EricB]

I don't get the "Gortats gonna break out"

With what offensive talents?

Hes the turkish Hasheem Thabeet.

[yavozerb]

Like I posted earlier in this thread. Gortat had 16 games this year where he got 20 or more minutes, most of those were 20-25, but he had a few big minute games when Howard was out.

In those 16, he averaged 9 points, 9 rebounds & 1.6 blocks. In those 16, he had 6 13+ rebound games including one with 18. He had 5 games with 3 or more blocks including one with 5.

In games where he got 28 min's or more (which would be a reasonable number as a starting C) he averaged 10 points, 10.7 rebounds, 1.7 blocks & 1.3 steals.

Now please tell me 30 other centers in the league that do better than that.

Sheed averaged 12 & 7 the last 3 years & averaged 1.3 blocks & .9 steals this year. He also missed around 20 games this past season.

You dont get what I am trying to say..Ok, once again, gortat will probably command a contract around 4-5 mil which is close to the mle..Would you rather have sheed or gortat playing center next to duncan? Gortat might be a good rebounder, but, does he gel with the spurs team? I think not, when gortat can develop a 10-15 t jump shot then maybe he is worth a shot, until then he would only be a bench player who is not worth a fat contract.

[BillMc]

This is my first thread and i'm kinda new to spurstalk so if this thread exist already, my bad.

Anyways spurs have the MLE to offer i would hope they go after Gortat fisrt, hes younger and has recent finals expirence. Sheed has always been one of my favorite players growing up, watching him and Duncan go after in in 2005 is always going to be one of my favorite Finals match ups BUT lets face is he's not getting younger and we already have Bonner who can create match up problems so Gortat can be our grind out guy to play D and get rebounds...

what do ya'll think?

here are there numbers from this past season
Rasheed> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...e?playerId=883

Gortat> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...?playerId=2758

take a look at the minutes comparison before you judge the staight up points and rebounds


anyway i have faith in our FO again and here's to this coming season!

A very interesting thread. And as it was your first thread, thank you. Welcome to the boards.

My personal opinion is Sheed would be better simply because he's so smart with the basketball that he would fit the Spurs system beautifully, finding the open man, maintaining spacing, etc. If Sheed has lost a step, and by some chance Blair blossoms, then Sheed would be a great bench leader. Pairing him with Manu would give us the smartest bench players in the NBA.

I don't know too much about Gortat honestly, but he seems a bit raw from one I read on other posts. He could work in a Spurs system too. Somewhat like Mark Eaton in the old Jazz system. But my first choice would be Sheed.

Best, Bill

[jj cain]

You dont get what I am trying to say..Ok, once again, gortat will probably command a contract around 4-5 mil which is close to the mle..Would you rather have sheed or gortat playing center next to duncan? Gortat might be a good rebounder, but, does he gel with the spurs team? I think not, when gortat can develop a 10-15 t jump shot then maybe he is worth a shot, until then he would only be a bench player who is not worth a fat contract.

I get EXACTLY what your are saying and you are off. Gortat IS a starting center on just about any team outside of Orlando, LA & a few others. 7 footers that average double/doubles in 28 min's & can block shots & play D ARE starting centers. Those aren't bench player numbers.

And I've already stated multiple times on this thread that I prefer Sheed, but the point is, if he doesn't sign here we still need a big man. Gortat is one of a handful of guys that could make a difference.

[Pucho!!!]

Since sum suggest that the signing of Gortat would spell the end of the Splitter to the Spurs wait and that he would either be used in a trade or sign with sumone else, who is the better young big, Splitter or Gortat?

[Man In Black]

No...it's not a relevant question...it's a stupid question and the answer is obvious. If Tim is hurting it matters little who is playing center, because we are not going anywhere or doing anything meaningful from a championship perspective. Would we be a little better off functionally with Sheed if Duncan got hurt? Probably. But your argument means absolutely nothing on the grand scheme of things.

The last half of your scenario is even more stupid. Lol...when do we ever run 4 down when Duncan is off the floor? If Duncan is on the bench then the offense will initiated by Tony or Manu...or possibly RJ now that he is a part of the team. We will be running little to no plays for Sheed or Gortat. They will only be there to score from an opportunistic standpoint, where Sheed will hit outside shots when he is open and Gortat will score on garbage points and the pick and roll(which he is quite good at).

Tip toe answer and you know this.

I can't believe I have to OVER simplify this for you but I'm game. Let's not talk about possibilities of championships or series wins or any of that stuff.

Just analyze their skills and then tell us all O WISE ONE, that if the ball was thrown into the post, who could the Spurs trust more...Gortat or Wallace. JUST ANSWER JUST THAT QUESTION. If you tip toe again, then I'll already know what you won't say.

Just looking at relative skill sets. Wallace has forgotten more about low-post moves than Gortat knows. That's the truth. RECOGNIZE.

[yavozerb]

I get EXACTLY what your are saying and you are off. Gortat IS a starting center on just about any team outside of Orlando, LA & a few others. 7 footers that average double/doubles in 28 min's & can block shots & play D ARE starting centers. Those aren't bench player numbers.

And I've already stated multiple times on this thread that I prefer Sheed, but the point is, if he doesn't sign here we still need a big man. Gortat is one of a handful of guys that could make a difference.

Let someone else experiment with this guy, put the the spurs in the others category! Posting 4 or 5 double doubles in a season during blow out games is not bad, but to pay starter type $ for him, no thanks (hopefully the spurs well agree)

[BackHome]

My question with all the Gortat lovers is...who could you trust in the post, both offensive and defensive post play IF DUNCAN WAS HURTING?

This is where Rasheed's experience would come into play. Gortat hasn't shown the skill to create a play, pass out of the double team, or patiently hold the ball to let the play develop. I agree his dive cuts to the rim are good, that he does as good a job as any 2nd-tier post player in holding his ground defensively. But if Duncan was hurt, could the Spurs rely on Gortat more than if they had Rasheed?

That is the question that Gortat backers must answer.

Well if your starting line up looks like this:

PG. Tony
SG. Manu
SF. Jefferson
PF. Blair
C. Gorat

That group may not beat the Lakers and Cavs but they will win against most teams. In fact I wouldn't mind if Duncan takes a few weaks off that always makes us a stronger team in that people step up and jell faster.

[Spursmania]

Sheed for winning now while we still have Duncan.

[BackHome]

I don't care who we get but they better be able to guard players like Shaq, Yao, Howard, Nene, and Bynum. So who ever we get they better be hitting the weight room or they going to get punked!

[HarlemHeat37]

Bynum was completely shut down by Gortat in the Finals, he couldn't get anything on him at all..he also did a great job on Gasol when he guarded him 1 on 1..

I'll break it down further, just to summarize..

first of all, for those against Gortat, who is your option instead?..I keep seeing people write that Gortat isn't worth starting $, but who is?..we clearly need another big man to start for this team, so getting somebody is a must..there might be somebody, so I'd like to hear your opinions..remember that signing Gortat and paying the luxury tax would also allow us to keep some of our talent like Roger Mason, which wouldn't be a case if we made a trade for a guy like Camby..

Again, my pick is Rasheed Wallace, but I don't really understand the hate on Marcin..

We're going to have FOUR big-time scorers on the floor at the same time..3 of them are ELITE playmakers..so Gortat's 1 on 1 scoring ability is completely irrelevant..

The Celtics have the same guy in Kendrick Perkins..while Gortat isn't Perkins, he plays a similar game..Perkins is one of the best defenders in the NBA, so I'm not saying Gortat is as good..Boston has 3 great scorers on the floor, and 1 good scorer/great playmaker in Rondo..Perkins feeds off of them, plays defense, provides toughness, and rebounds..

Gortat just has to finish, which he clearly can do..he's athletic, and he finishes strong at the basket..there's absolutely NO reason to expect him to go 1 on 1 against anybody..do you guys see any reason to run a play for the 5th guy when you have Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Richard Jefferson on your team?!..obviously not..

For those who still don't understand..Gortat is the backup to Dwight Howard..he can't play next to him due to Orlando's system that causes mismatches with their small PF that shoot, and Howard's lack of versatility in his offensive game..Dwight is also one of the most durable players in the NBA, so his playing time is never a concern..

Tim Duncan is not Dwight Howard..before the injury, Tim was shooting his best % off jumpers in his career..it was clearly a part of his game that he worked on during the off-season..he was using the bank shot more than ever, and he's a better passer than he's ever been..he's going to be playing the high post a lot..

Rasheed is the better option due to his experience, ability to spread the floor, and the fact that he's more talented if he's motivated..Wallace has the same amount of risks though..there's a very possible chance that Wallace is no longer the same impact player that we expected, just like there's the risk that Gortat isn't worth the $ we're going to give him..

How does anybody know which teams are pursuing Gortat?!..teams aren't going to talk about it right now, so how can that be used as a knock against him..

IMO, we can't go wrong with either guy..

[benefactor]

Tip toe answer and you know this.

I can't believe I have to OVER simplify this for you but I'm game. Let's not talk about possibilities of championships or series wins or any of that stuff.

Just analyze their skills and then tell us all O WISE ONE, that if the ball was thrown into the post, who could the Spurs trust more...Gortat or Wallace. JUST ANSWER JUST THAT QUESTION. If you tip toe again, then I'll already know what you won't say.

Just looking at relative skill sets. Wallace has forgotten more about low-post moves than Gortat knows. That's the truth. RECOGNIZE.

I already answered that question...and if you had spent more time reading my post and less time picking which words you were going to capitalize in your response then you would have seen that. It's not like it matters though...because it doesn't change the fact that neither of them will see the ball in the post on an isolation more than a half dozen times next season if they are on our roster.

Both are good options for various reasons. If I am paying the same amount of money and have to choose then I go with Sheed because of his shooting and the fact that there a lot of young bigs on our roster already. Gortat runs the floor better, could guard quicker bigs better and is likely a better shot blocker...and if we are being honest that is all we really need in a big man.

[yavozerb]

Bynum was completely shut down by Gortat in the Finals, he couldn't get anything on him at all..he also did a great job on Gasol when he guarded him 1 on 1..

I'll break it down further, just to summarize..

first of all, for those against Gortat, who is your option instead?..I keep seeing people write that Gortat isn't worth starting $, but who is?..we clearly need another big man to start for this team, so getting somebody is a must..there might be somebody, so I'd like to hear your opinions..remember that signing Gortat and paying the luxury tax would also allow us to keep some of our talent like Roger Mason, which wouldn't be a case if we made a trade for a guy like Camby..

Again, my pick is Rasheed Wallace, but I don't really understand the hate on Marcin..

We're going to have FOUR big-time scorers on the floor at the same time..3 of them are ELITE playmakers..so Gortat's 1 on 1 scoring ability is completely irrelevant..

The Celtics have the same guy in Kendrick Perkins..while Gortat isn't Perkins, he plays a similar game..Perkins is one of the best defenders in the NBA, so I'm not saying Gortat is as good..Boston has 3 great scorers on the floor, and 1 good scorer/great playmaker in Rondo..Perkins feeds off of them, plays defense, provides toughness, and rebounds..

Gortat just has to finish, which he clearly can do..he's athletic, and he finishes strong at the basket..there's absolutely NO reason to expect him to go 1 on 1 against anybody..do you guys see any reason to run a play for the 5th guy when you have Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Richard Jefferson on your team?!..obviously not..

For those who still don't understand..Gortat is the backup to Dwight Howard..he can't play next to him due to Orlando's system that causes mismatches with their small PF that shoot, and Howard's lack of versatility in his offensive game..Dwight is also one of the most durable players in the NBA, so his playing time is never a concern..

Tim Duncan is not Dwight Howard..before the injury, Tim was shooting his best % off jumpers in his career..it was clearly a part of his game that he worked on during the off-season..he was using the bank shot more than ever, and he's a better passer than he's ever been..he's going to be playing the high post a lot..

Rasheed is the better option due to his experience, ability to spread the floor, and the fact that he's more talented if he's motivated..Wallace has the same amount of risks though..there's a very possible chance that Wallace is no longer the same impact player that we expected, just like there's the risk that Gortat isn't worth the $ we're going to give him..

How does anybody know which teams are pursuing Gortat?!..teams aren't going to talk about it right now, so how can that be used as a knock against him..

IMO, we can't go wrong with either guy..

No hate for the guy, I would rather see sheed, mcdyess, or birdman, before this guys name even gets mentioned. The le of this post is gortat or sheed and I choose sheed obviously. On the bynum front, who didnt shut him down during the playoffs, he sucked.

[4RINGS]

Bynum was completely shut down by Gortat in the Finals, he couldn't get anything on him at all..he also did a great job on Gasol when he guarded him 1 on 1..

I'll break it down further, just to summarize..

first of all, for those against Gortat, who is your option instead?..I keep seeing people write that Gortat isn't worth starting $, but who is?..we clearly need another big man to start for this team, so getting somebody is a must..there might be somebody, so I'd like to hear your opinions..remember that signing Gortat and paying the luxury tax would also allow us to keep some of our talent like Roger Mason, which wouldn't be a case if we made a trade for a guy like Camby..

Again, my pick is Rasheed Wallace, but I don't really understand the hate on Marcin..

We're going to have FOUR big-time scorers on the floor at the same time..3 of them are ELITE playmakers..so Gortat's 1 on 1 scoring ability is completely irrelevant..

The Celtics have the same guy in Kendrick Perkins..while Gortat isn't Perkins, he plays a similar game..Perkins is one of the best defenders in the NBA, so I'm not saying Gortat is as good..Boston has 3 great scorers on the floor, and 1 good scorer/great playmaker in Rondo..Perkins feeds off of them, plays defense, provides toughness, and rebounds..

Gortat just has to finish, which he clearly can do..he's athletic, and he finishes strong at the basket..there's absolutely NO reason to expect him to go 1 on 1 against anybody..do you guys see any reason to run a play for the 5th guy when you have Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Richard Jefferson on your team?!..obviously not..

For those who still don't understand..Gortat is the backup to Dwight Howard..he can't play next to him due to Orlando's system that causes mismatches with their small PF that shoot, and Howard's lack of versatility in his offensive game..Dwight is also one of the most durable players in the NBA, so his playing time is never a concern..

Tim Duncan is not Dwight Howard..before the injury, Tim was shooting his best % off jumpers in his career..it was clearly a part of his game that he worked on during the off-season..he was using the bank shot more than ever, and he's a better passer than he's ever been..he's going to be playing the high post a lot..

Rasheed is the better option due to his experience, ability to spread the floor, and the fact that he's more talented if he's motivated..Wallace has the same amount of risks though..there's a very possible chance that Wallace is no longer the same impact player that we expected, just like there's the risk that Gortat isn't worth the $ we're going to give him..

How does anybody know which teams are pursuing Gortat?!..teams aren't going to talk about it right now, so how can that be used as a knock against him..

IMO, we can't go wrong with either guy..

Well, if you put it that way, then yes, if we have exhausted all other options first and Sheed and others are gone, then yes, talk to Gortat. But, the thread suggest Gortat or Sheed. I say Sheed first, it is that simple.

[BackHome]

I don't know why you guys are all ing we freakin were paying Oberto 3 mill last year and Thomas 4 mill. Two freakin old players who could not even dunk the ball were getting almost 8 mill.

I would bet my paycheck that Gorat at 4 mill a year is a of alot better then Thomas or Oberto combined! You would have to be an idiot to argue that point.

And Yes both would be good. Oh, one question for Sheed perps if he is so good why were the Spurs going after the Greece boy?

[poop]

this is a no-brainer, Gortat would be the better choice by far. its not 2004 anymore