Fuel tax could be replaced with by-the-mile road tax

[101A]

Not only that, insurance companies could directly asses how many miles you drove last year by that data and adjust your policy accordingly.
Or police could tell if you were speeding if you went from point A to point B in an amount of time smaller than what it should really be if you were doing the posted speed limit.

Where does it stop?

You're not taking this far enough AT ALL.

Insurance companies could have real time access to the travel "grid", and track where you are, and how fast you are driving RIGHT NOW.

Cops could simply ding your bank account (or credit card if ur broke), the INSTANT you exceed a speed limit, and for every second you remain over it. Run a stop sign? Caught.

There could be a database that knows the location of your vehicle every minute of every day....adulterers & slackers beware; your wife/boss might be able to get at those records......

[coyotes_geek]

You're not taking this far enough AT ALL.

Insurance companies could have real time access to the travel "grid", and track where you are, and how fast you are driving RIGHT NOW.

Cops could simply ding your bank account (or credit card if ur broke), the INSTANT you exceed a speed limit, and for every second you remain over it. Run a stop sign? Caught.

There could be a database that knows the location of your vehicle every minute of every day....adulterers & slackers beware; your wife/boss might be able to get at those records......

Got a toll tag? They can do this to you already.

[jman3000]

This discussion should have ended a while ago.

None of this is gonna come to fruition.

[coyotes_geek]

This discussion should have ended a while ago.

None of this is gonna come to fruition.

Don't be so sure. Texas is studying this too.

[Winehole23]

Just raise the damn gas tax and be done with it. There's no issues with the government tracking everyone's whereabouts...

I'm surprised to hear you say this, CG. Did you just get exasperated, or do you really mean it?

... the infrastructure to collect the taxes already exists, you don't have to worry about not collecting tax revenue from out of state vehicles who aren't hooked up to the GPS, you don't have to worry about people not paying their tax bill, and it provides an extra incentive for people to drive fuel efficient cars.

The efficiencies are clear enough. Again, I'm just surprised you're the one arguing for them, given the official penetration of everyday life they presume.

Insurance companies could have real time access to the travel "grid", and track where you are, and how fast you are driving RIGHT NOW.

That they do not yet stands out prominently to me.

Am I wrong about this, 101?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Just raise the damn gas tax and be done with it. There's no issues with the government tracking everyone's whereabouts, the infrastructure to collect the taxes already exists, you don't have to worry about not collecting tax revenue from out of state vehicles who aren't hooked up to the GPS, you don't have to worry about people not paying their tax bill, and it provides an extra incentive for people to drive fuel efficient cars.

Oh come on, the Messiah and his Democratic minions are great. Everyone should get on board this statist bandwagon, it's the only way to stick it to the evil corporations and big oil [/leftist trash]

[jack sommerset]

Talk about civil rights being violated. The Government will know everywhere u go. People who ed about Bush wire taping....go urself for not saying about this. People who about ur car being searched..go yourself too.

Obama is one dumb mother er.

[coyotes_geek]

I'm surprised to hear you say this, CG. Did you just get exasperated, or do you really mean it?

Not sure I follow. In other discussions have I been giving off the impression that I'm in favor of the government tracking people's movements? I'm not btw.

The efficiencies are clear enough. Again, I'm just surprised you're the one arguing for them, given the official penetration of everyday life they presume.

Our transportation infrastructure is horribly underfunded. We need it, we want it, so we've got to pay for it. Right now we're not paying enough. I know I'm anti-tax on most other things, but infrastructure is on the short list of things I do believe the government has to be involved in. And given it's importance in how we're able to live the way we do, it's something that is worth spending money on.

[101A]

That they do not yet stands out prominently to me.

Am I wrong about this, 101?

Don't do any p/c insurance, but I assume you ask me because you remember my occupation is related to insurance; but from the underwriter's mindset, I can answer your question:

Insurance companies want to know EVERYTHING they can to underwrite risk accurately; if they could know that (technological and regulatory hurdles all cleared), they would.

[101A]

Got a toll tag? They can do this to you already.

I thought the toll tag was only read via radio waves at the toll booth itself?

I don't think there's GPS technology in that thing.

How EZ Pass works

[jman3000]

Talk about civil rights being violated. The Government will know everywhere u go. People who ed about Bush wire taping....go urself for not saying about this. People who about ur car being searched..go yourself too.

Obama is one dumb mother er.

speaking of one dumb mother er.

Welcome to the thread. You should have read the article and the posts first.

Thanks.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I thought the toll tag was only read via radio waves at the toll booth itself?

I don't think there's GPS technology in that thing.

How EZ Pass works

I think he just means that it shows each location you pass through on the tollroad, so in effect they have a rudimentary idea of your travel about the city (at least on the toll roads).

[Marcus Bryant]

Don't do any p/c insurance, but I assume you ask me because you remember my occupation is related to insurance; but from the underwriter's mindset, I can answer your question:

Insurance companies want to know EVERYTHING they can to underwrite risk accurately; if they could know that (technological and regulatory hurdles all cleared), they would.

Not to mention employers and creditors.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

On a side note, I think it's interesting that no one on the boards thinks this is a good idea.

i'm really not campaigning for the popularity vote, dude.

[coyotes_geek]

I thought the toll tag was only read via radio waves at the toll booth itself?

I don't think there's GPS technology in that thing.

How EZ Pass works

There isn't GPS in those, but you don't need it. Say there's two toll booths 1 mile apart and the speed limit is 60 mph. The tolling equipment records the time you went through the booth, down to the .01 of a second. If you cross through the second toll booth less than a minute after you crossed through the first one, you were obviously speeding. It wouldn't be any trouble at all to have a computer just spit out speeding tickets to anyone who covered that distance in 50 seconds (equates to 72 mph) or less. It also wouldn't be any trouble to set up the monitoring equipment on any non-toll road and do the same thing.

edit: Just for more useless info, even though the technology to do something like this already exists, toll authorities have resisted doing something like this because they want people driving the roads and paying tolls. People won't do that if they're getting tickets mailed to them. However, toll authorities are all quasi-public en ies and there could come a day where governments start leaning on them to do some kind of automated speed enforcement as a source of revenue.

[ElNono]

The flip side is that there will probably be a new very lucrative business that hacks and modifies GPS devices. It will probably be declared illegal ASAP, but hey, it will generate some jobs!

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not for stupid ideas like this, but from a practicality standpoint this is bugging me.

Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier and a whole lot cheaper to just have them check your odometer once a year as another step to getting your car inspection sticker? At least then you could repeal the sales tax immediately, but instead of getting by the mile taxes it would just be 1 lump sum at the end of the year.


Expensive ass GPS units in every damn car. An entirely new bureaucracy in a government billing center.

Yes, but then they cannot track your activities. Like Viva Las Espuelas points out, other methods are easy to cheat. Odometers can be rolled back, or changed. The only thing that will work at this level of government control is a tamper-proof piece of data recording equipment. I find it ironic that liberals complain about the Patriot Act, which has practical national security usages, then think it's right to track people's mileage for taxes.

another thing, carbon tax related, i thought about then is they would somehow tax us for doing barbeques. on wood, charcoal, propane. i can imagine how much more expensive barbeque restaurants would get. more and more i can see that easily happen...........and some of you keep on with the R against D debate......

There would probably be carbon taxes on both the briquettes and starter fluids, except I think they would more likely outlaw that form, only allowing gas grills that meet new emission standards, and tax that fuel too.

Not only that, insurance companies could directly asses how many miles you drove last year by that data and adjust your policy accordingly.
Or police could tell if you were speeding if you went from point A to point B in an amount of time smaller than what it should really be if you were doing the posted speed limit.

Where does it stop?

Absolutely. Any form of data recording can also be subpoenaed for courts. Maybe to check on alibis, traffic accidents, vehicle speed for speeding tickets, etc.

Do we really want a 'black box' in our cars like aircraft are required to have?

There isn't GPS in those, but you don't need it. Say there's two toll booths 1 mile apart and the speed limit is 60 mph. The tolling equipment records the time you went through the booth, down to the .01 of a second. If you cross through the second toll booth less than a minute after you crossed through the first one, you were obviously speeding. It wouldn't be any trouble at all to have a computer just spit out speeding tickets to anyone who covered that distance in 50 seconds (equates to 72 mph) or less. It also wouldn't be any trouble to set up the monitoring equipment on any non-toll road and do the same thing.

Agreed.

I say if they are bent on a mileage tax, tax the tires by wear life.

[LnGrrrR]

i'm really not campaigning for the popularity vote, dude.

That wasn't just in response to you. That's why I labled it a "side note". As in, not related to our discussion.

Take a chill pill Viva. Not everything is about you.

[LnGrrrR]

Oh come on, the Messiah and his Democratic minions are great. Everyone should get on board this statist bandwagon, it's the only way to stick it to the evil corporations and big oil [/leftist trash]

Talk about civil rights being violated. The Government will know everywhere u go. People who ed about Bush wire taping....go urself for not saying about this. People who about ur car being searched..go yourself too.

Obama is one dumb mother er.

I find it ironic that liberals complain about the Patriot Act, which has practical national security usages, then think it's right to track people's mileage for taxes.

Could any of the people on these boards calling out 'lefties' for supporting this, please show where any of the board lefties are supporting this?

Anyone?

[ElNono]

Could any of the people on these boards calling out 'lefties' for supporting this, please show where any of the board lefties are supporting this?

Anyone?

My thoughts exactly...

EDIT: And the faux indignation at the abuses of the Patriot Act at this point is laughable...

[SonOfAGun]

I'm going to make like Wal-Mart and Roll back the prmilesces.

[Winehole23]

Not sure I follow. In other discussions have I been giving off the impression that I'm in favor of the government tracking people's movements? I'm not btw.

Fair enough. But the following graf raises the question again IMO, if implicitly.

Our transportation infrastructure is horribly underfunded. We need it, we want it, so we've got to pay for it. Right now we're not paying enough. I know I'm anti-tax on most other things, but infrastructure is on the short list of things I do believe the government has to be involved in. And given it's importance in how we're able to live the way we do, it's something that is worth spending money on.

This is eminently reasonable and prudential, and I agree with you.

But a tax with a toll tag?

Rly?

[Wild Cobra]

Our transportation infrastructure is horribly underfunded. We need it, we want it, so we've got to pay for it. Right now we're not paying enough. I know I'm anti-tax on most other things, but infrastructure is on the short list of things I do believe the government has to be involved in. And given it's importance in how we're able to live the way we do, it's something that is worth spending money on.

I agree. We need to fund the roads more money. Gasoline taxes have not increased with the cost of living, labor, or whatever standard you want to use in most states. The federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon, and for how long now? I don't know. Revenue for road taxes is actually decreasing over the years per mile driven as well with more fuel efficient vehicles.

I am all for raising both state and federal gas taxes, then placing an annual increase that follows the CPI, or some other index. It has a condition however. Fuel taxes are for roads only. Not to pay for mass transit. We have such deteriorating roads here in Portland partially because the fuel taxes are being used to fund rail transportation.

[coyotes_geek]

Fair enough. But the following graf raises the question again IMO, if implicitly.

This is eminently reasonable and prudential, and I agree with you.

But a tax with a toll tag?

Rly?

Sorry, you're losing me again. I support raising the taxes per gallon we pay at the pump. I'm not in favor of any kind of electronic record keeping tracking people's driving habits and taxing off of that. This doesn't need to get any more complicated than pay at the pump.

The toll tag stuff was was just tangential conversation.

[Winehole23]

Gotcha. My bad.