Free Agent: Marcin Gortat

[DPG21920]

Damp's per-minute stats the year before he signed with the Mavs were better.

Was that in 04? Damp was 15&15 in rebounding/scoring per 40. Gortat is 18&16 (rounded up for both players). That is pretty damn close, but Gortat comes out ahead.

[Findog]

And for all of that, he's still decidedly average. Who do you see him becoming?

He's put up a double-double in every career start. His per 36 minute #s are very good. If he can simply keep doing what he has up to this point, and keep up his work ethic, the Mavs will not regret the $$ they're paying him.

With all of your "change the team's destiny" bull , though, you seem to be saying this move should be judged as "Championship or Bust." That's just not a realistic expectation for the MLE. Given our roster needs and what's out there, the Mavs hit at least a solid double with their use of the MLE, and potentially more.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

No, I read you wrote. You started off by saying the Mavs were overpaying for him. Considering what Gortat is and is capable of, and the market rate for bigs, that is decidedly not the case, even if he ends up being no better than Dampier. Your argument is incorrect, but you're welcome to keep making it and amusing the rest of us in the process. Throw in some "My team is better than your team" smacktalk for good measure, since you guys ended our season and all.

Just because the market for bigs means that Gortat got the MLE for 5 years does not mean that the contract won't be overblown in 2-3 years time, which I suspect it will be. I may be wrong, we shall see, but I think in 3 years Gortat will probably be an overpaid backup for some team other than the Mavs, dumped by Cuban like so many other terrible contracts he's signed.

BTW, I already said that you basically got Dampier for half the price, and that's an improvement.

Personally, I'm glad the Spurs didn't sign Gortat for the MLE. He is not talented enought to change the fortune of my team, or yours.

[Tully365]

I like Gortat and his potential, but I just don't think he has earned this kind of money, and bigs like this rarely become big time starters. But of course, Cuban has money to burn so maybe he doesn't care about the potential of overspending. At this point I'd rather give 2 years at 1.5 million to Mouhamed Sene, another shot-blocking, foul prone, many rebounds per minute, not much offense type of guy who is 2 years younger than Gortat and won DPOY in the D-league.

[Findog]

Personally, I'm glad the Spurs didn't sign Gortat for the MLE.

Yes, you guys are much better off with 36 yr old Sheed going through the motions instead of getting a young big with promise to pair alongside Timmy.

He is not talented enought to change the fortune of my team, or yours.

What is this "change of fortune" bull you keep spouting? The Mavs made good use of their MLE. We'll see what San Antonio does with theirs. Can we keep the conversation centered around basketball and not metaphysical diddling? Do you understand what the MLE is? Because it doesn't appear like you do.

[timvp]

Was that in 04? Damp was 15&15 in rebounding/scoring per 40. Gortat is 18&16 (rounded up for both players). That is pretty damn close, but Gortat comes out ahead.

You need to reboot your calculator and try again. Damp averaged more points and rebounds per minute.

[DPG21920]

I am comparing the highest either have put up via P/40:

In 2003/2004 Damp put up 15 points/15 rebounds with a PER of 20.24
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playe...playerId%3d181

In 2007/2008 Gortat put up 18 points/16 rebounds with a PER of 20.03
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/playe...layerId%3d2758

I do not know if those are accurate or if we are talking about the same thing. But I was wrong about Damp or Diop not coming close.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Yes, you guys are much better off with 36 yr old Sheed going through the motions instead of getting a young big with promise to pair alongside Timmy.

Once again, if you had a clue what I've been posting rather than making assumptions, I've been advocating for Dice, not Sheed. Dice would be a perfect fit as a Spur and still has gas in the tank afterthat long mid-career lay off. But then I wouldn't expect you to pay enough attention to get things like that right.

And your "young big with promise" would not work next to Tim because he can't hit a long jumper like Dice (and Sheed) can. Nor is he a better defender than Dice/Sheed, or a better boardman than Dice.

What is this "change of fortune" bull you keep spouting? The Mavs made good use of their MLE. We'll see what San Antonio does with theirs. Can we keep the conversation centered around basketball and not metaphysical diddling? Do you understand what the MLE is? Because it doesn't appear like you do.

What I am referring to is that Gortat doesn't make you a contender again - he's not suddenly making a bunch of also rans into a contending team. And sure, you bested an old, beaten-up Spurs team last year, but that was entirely predictable (in fact, I and a few others were given a lot of by the homers for seeing the writing on the wall with 2 weeks to go in the regular season and stating our opinions), but everyone knew you would be gutted by the Nuggets, and that's exactly what happened.

So, it's clear that you're more than one player from being back amongst the league's giants, and certainly more than Marcin Gortat from being a serious contender. What I'm wondering is why you'd make a 5yr, full MLE commitment to a guy who isn't going to make a difference to your standings? Because he'll make a difference in 2012? Maybe, but Cuban doesn't roll like that, he flies by the seat of his pants when it comes to assembling teams. This is a fan-placating move, nothing more, nothing less.

I wonder how many other teams were willing to offer the full 32/5 to Gortat? I saw him more as a 12/3 or 15/5 guy in a true market, although it is a highly inflated market for bigs this year. That's why I think your team might regret this deal. Surely, it's a better idea to stay out of a market like this unless you have to act (as we do)?

Anyway, this has been fun, but it's now time for other things.

[Findog]

What I am referring to is that Gortat doesn't make you a contender again - he's not suddenly making a bunch of also rans into a contending team.

Why are you beating this non sequitur horse? How much frontal lobe damage do you have? I'm just trying to wrap my head around your "logic": Since there's not a FA out there the Mavs can sign with their MLE that would result in them leapfrogging the Magic, Cavs, Celtics and Lakers for a le, you are essentially saying they should just not bother improving their team with the MLE at all. Umm...okay.

You're nitpicking this move because it's the Mavs and you don't like the Mavs. You're welcome to continue making yourself look stupid by ting on this move out of proportion to the potential downside.

And sure, you bested an old, beaten-up Spurs team last year, but that was entirely predictable (in fact, I and a few others were given a lot of by the homers for seeing the writing on the wall with 2 weeks to go in the regular season and stating our opinions), but everyone knew you would be gutted by the Nuggets, and that's exactly what happened.

This thread is about Marcin Gortat, not the 2009 NBA playoffs. I find it strange that a Spurs fan would like to discuss the 2009 playoffs with a Mavs fan, but umm...okay.

Anyway, this has been fun, but it's now time for other things.

You too, Governor Palin.

[Trainwreck2100]

This Aussie chimes in with a weak take. Ho hum.

cmon man when has Cuban not overpaid a player, besides Dirk

[Findog]

cmon man when has Cuban not overpaid a player, besides Dirk

Howard's contract is reasonable. Devin Harris had a fantastic deal for what he is, but they had to that up by trading for Kidd. Terry's deal isn't that bad.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Why are you beating this non sequitur horse? How much frontal lobe damage do you have? I'm just trying to wrap my head around your "logic": Since there's not a FA out there the Mavs can sign with their MLE that would result in them leapfrogging the Magic, Cavs, Celtics and Lakers for a le, you are essentially saying they should just not bother improving their team with the MLE at all. Umm...okay.

You continually ask me to explain what I'm saying and then have a go at me for it - who has the frontal lobe damage???

I said nothing about "leapfrogging", I was referring to being in contention. Leapfrogging implies being better than, and you're a long way from that ever being possible.

And, yes, if you spend like Cuban spends, loading down your team with ty contracts that end up biting you in the arse (which he has done ever since he bought the team), maybe it would be a good idea to lay off the spending in an overblown bigman free-agent market. That way you actually have money to spend when a real team-changing deal comes along. It's called long-term planning. I'm not surprised that you seem to be unfamiliar with it.

This thread is about Marcin Gortat, not the 2009 NBA playoffs. I find it strange that a Spurs fan would like to discuss the 2009 playoffs with a Mavs fan, but umm...okay.

You brought up the subject when you said: "...since you guys ended our season and all." I was merely responding to your "lame team smack talk".

[Findog]

You continually ask me to explain what I'm saying and then have a go at me for it

As best as I can tell, your argument is that the Mavs should not use their MLE to improve their team since it doesn't "change their destiny" into a le team. That's pretty effing stupid. So who should the Mavs use their MLE on instead of Gortat? I guess Hedo would've turned down $56 million from Toronto for $32 mil with us? What should we do with our MLE given our roster needs? We were deficient at the 2 and 5 last year. We just signed a promising 24 year old 5 with the MLE. What would you do?

I said nothing about "leapfrogging", I was referring to being in contention

The Mavs were one of 8 teams left standing last year. That means they are a of a lot closer to the penthouse than the sewer. I would agree that they have a ways to go to catch up to LA, but they can stand pat and still be a playoff team and be capable of winning a series without doing a damn thing this summer. You're just not making sense at all.

That way you actually have money to spend when a real team-changing deal comes along.

Mark Cuban is unwilling to open his wallet to acquire impact players? Uh, okay...

It's called long-term planning. I'm not surprised that you seem to be unfamiliar with it.

Right, the Spurs sure used long-term planning to alter their franchise's fortunes. They totally planned it out by making sure David Robinson missed 60 games so they could then win the lottery in a year in which Tim Duncan was coming out of college. Right.

[DPG21920]

Kori: where do you have Gortat on your list for the Spurs?

[Findog]

I like Gortat and his potential, but I just don't think he has earned this kind of money, and bigs like this rarely become big time starters. But of course, Cuban has money to burn so maybe he doesn't care about the potential of overspending. At this point I'd rather give 2 years at 1.5 million to Mouhamed Sene, another shot-blocking, foul prone, many rebounds per minute, not much offense type of guy who is 2 years younger than Gortat and won DPOY in the D-league.

Gortat played well in the playoffs. That's a crucible that Sene has not had. And Gortat has averaged a double-double anytime he gets more than 20 mpg, so while he's not exactly Wilt Chamberlain down in the low post, he's not helpless either.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori: where do you have Gortat on your list for the Spurs?

I don't really have a list. I don't LOVE any of the options, but I don't mind a bunch of them depending on the price -- Rasheed, McDyess, Varejao, Pachulia, Big Baby, Bass, Kleiza, even Rasho.

I don't think that you need five stellar starting quality players (teams rarely have that). So I think with Tim/Tony/Manu/RJ, the big could be just a hard working guy who doesn't get in the way, hits the glass and knows his role.

[Tully365]

Gortat played well in the playoffs. That's a crucible that Sene has not had. And Gortat has averaged a double-double anytime he gets more than 20 mpg, so while he's not exactly Wilt Chamberlain down in the low post, he's not helpless either.

Very true, but there's a reason why he hasn't played 20 minutes in a game very often, and that's because having him on the floor for extended periods hasn't struck his own coach as a probable formula for winning. And that's on a team with two small forwards taking turns playing the power forward position that neither of them wants responsibility for. I'm not saying Sene is better at this point, but I am saying that a 3 million dollar gamble on Sene makes more sense to me than a 35 million dollar gamble on Gortat. Unless, of course, money is no object.

[Obstructed_View]

Great get by the Mavs. Unlike Damp, who had a Jerome James type contract year with a terrible team and has mailed it in ever since, they get a mobile guy who can put up numbers without ball-hogging and play defense. If he comes anything close to what he's done the few times he's been a starter, the full MLE will be a bargain. Spurs fans will be crying about this one in a year.

[timvp]

I don't think Gortat would have been a good fit on the Spurs. He takes up a lot of space and the Spurs need that space to allow TD, Manu, TP and RJ to get into the paint.

But on the Mavs where they don't have a main player who prefers the paint Gortat will have an opportunity to reach his potential.

[polandprzem]

I don't think Gortat would have been a good fit on the Spurs. He takes up a lot of space and the Spurs need that space to allow TD, Manu, TP and RJ to get into the paint.

But on the Mavs where they don't have a main player who prefers the paint Gortat will have an opportunity to reach his potential.

Strange

If you could have duos of twin towers in Akeem and Ralph, Tim and Dave you also could find a place for 20 minutes Gortat-Dunncan duo./

[timvp]

Strange

If you could have duos of twin towers in Akeem and Ralph, Tim and Dave you also could find a place for 20 minutes Gortat-Dunncan duo./

You just wanted a Pole on this team.

[polandprzem]

You just wanted a Pole on this team.

Not just that. I want to see how he will be able to produce under Pop with TD as his mentor.

[polandprzem]

And yea we could protect the rim better

But if we can get McDyess or rasheed , not having Gortat won't do much harm

[polandprzem]

btw. LJ Have you considered that ufc100 vbookie I was asking you for?

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think Gortat would have been a good fit on the Spurs. He takes up a lot of space and the Spurs need that space to allow TD, Manu, TP and RJ to get into the paint.

But on the Mavs where they don't have a main player who prefers the paint Gortat will have an opportunity to reach his potential.

All he has to do is stand there and when his man leaves him to try to block Parker or Manu in the paint he's got an easy finish. If they miss at the rim he goes after the rebound. If there's a jumper he blocks out and gets position for the offensvie board. Its not like he's Carlos Boozer on the Olympic team setting up in the block at the same time as Duncan.